Fisher: Manziel top-rated QB on Cowboys board

[pjtoadie]

 

[rags747]

Only thing I do not like about taking Manziel is that 1st Romo int the fans would be brutal...Romo does not seserve that.

 

[jterrell]

If I were a GM and I was drafting a QB in the 1st round, mental makeup would be above all other criteria.

Not only are you using the valuable 1st round pick, but you're going to be stuck trying to make it work for years. You could give the pick away and it would be less of a franchise setback than taking the wrong player at QB.

If I passed on Johnny and he went on to be terrific, I would not think twice about it just like Jimmy never worried about draft picks that didn't work out or the ones the didn't make.

Wilson's question marks pushed him to the 3rd round. We're talking about Manziel at 16 or higher. You can trade 16 for the equivalent of a half dozen 3rd round picks.

If we were two GMs talking we'd have a lot more access to data about mental make up.
As is we don't, so the point is moot.

While fair to question JM's mental makeup there is no real score to use for it.
Nick Saban and the Duke football team would probably rate it pretty highly.
He seemed quite a leader in his last football game when he led a come back in a bowl game from 35-7 down to win.

I coach young athletes and look at their mental make ups all the time.
The key thing is will they put int he work and can they play under pressure.
Manziel passes both tests as far as anyone can point to.
We don't have any deeper dives.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

Just out of curiousity, if we take Manziel, what are you doing with Romo?

You aren't drafting Manziel to sit him for 2-3 years behind Romo. If you blew your first round pick on Manziel and then sat him behind Romo that would be a truly waste of your first round pick. So if Jones has visions of getting Manziel, is 2014 the last year for Romo (or maybe this is a sign they are more worried about his back than they let on)?

I think you sit manziel for two years , play romo continue to build that defense . Then when manziel takes over in two years we'll have a dynasty in the making

 

[jterrell]

FYI

They finally got an official measurement of Manziel at the NFL combine. He is 5' 11 3/4"...or 1 3/4" taller than Wilson.

Not that it really matters, but I had noticed some misinformation out there on places like Wiki, etc.
The combine measurements are real and not speculation.

yea bro acknowledged my error above. was laziness on my part. took data on their college sites at face value.

i was listed at my cleated height in college too so should have known better.

 

[jterrell]

Where I'm going with this is that numbers are not a good indicator of success in the NFL. It's not just Klingler or Symons or Brennan or Keenum. It's literally all of the career guys. I do not believe that Manziel's game, as it is today, translates very well into the NFL. That's just my opinion.

That would be a fair point if any of those guys had put up those numbers versus the SEC West.
Alas, it is a fairly soft point, if a point at all, because none of those guys put up the overall numbers JM did with passing and running.

Again, Manziel put up those numbers, then met NFL desired measurables.
He also aced the Wonderlic.
He hasn't failed any test set before him except appearing to be humble.

Very few poor college players turn into NFL stars.

Good players tend to play well at every level.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

yes, he is.
manziel is a ticket seller and franchise face.
he has value galore.

a team's system isn't a big deal because teams drafting top 10 are looking for change in most cases.

manziel is every bit the player rg3 was.

as to the "other stuff" you can forget all that noise. clowney basically spent and entire year avoiding any effort ot hard work and trying to stay injury free yet is a number 1 pick. , manziel spent two years absolutely shredding future NFL players.

Awesome post!

JM is a winner and we all know this team needs guys like him.

Tony will either perform and keep Johnny on the bench or he will lose out. It's a good problem to have for the future.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

All well and good but none of that pertains to us. We are saddled with Romo till 2017. There is no way to get around that.
All the rest of this really doesn't mean a thing because if we took Manziel, then that would mean that we sit Romo or, we sit Manziel. There is not cap fix available in that scenario.

Yeah, I wondered if anyone was going to answer this question. Cap wise it is almost impossible to draft Manziel unless you really want 10-15% of your cap on the sidelines with his hat on backwards charting plays.

 

[jterrell]

Yeah, I wondered if anyone was going to answer this question. Cap wise it is almost impossible to draft Manziel unless you really want 10-15% of your cap on the sidelines with his hat on backwards charting plays.

asked and answered.
romo tied to team only 1 more season.
you could certainly sit a rookie one season.

romo will be here because we dont truly have access to a top tier QB prospect.

 

[tideh20heel]

If the Cowboys draft Manziel, the idiot fans and media will be clamoring loudly from day 1 until he starts. It will be a disaster for team chemistry. Romo would be wise to just demand a trade or be released neither of which would happen because of the salary cap implications.

Actually trading him after the season leaves us with a ton of dead money but no real change in cap hit as his is 27 mil next year. The trade or release must be done before the league year starts however to avoid triggering his salary guarantee.

 

[tideh20heel]

Only thing I do not like about taking Manziel is that 1st Romo int the fans would be brutal...Romo does not seserve that.

Goes with the position.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

asked and answered.
romo tied to team only 1 more season.
you could certainly sit a rookie one season.

romo will be here because we dont truly have access to a top tier QB prospect.

So we are cutting Romo in 2015 and taking a $37m hit in cap space AND have to pay him $7.5m in money that has already been guaranteed by him being on this year's roster after the third day of the league year? Not seeing it.

Can't really make him a June 1st cut next year because it guarantees another 7.5m in salary paid.

I know Jerry has cash to burn....but hard to see him letting 15m walk away as a parting gift AND taking the cap hits. Cap hits are monopoly money. When 15m LARGE is at risk, I think you just might think twice.

And I don't think anyone has Manziel in the class of Luck as a prospect. There are big name analysts questioning Manziel....there was almost no one that questioned Luck.

 

[jterrell]

BTW, the school I despise most is TAMU.

I wanted badly for TAMU to crash and burn and Manziel to fail but he did win me over with his actual on field play.
Anyone who watched him play and thinks he can't gets logged by me as football dumb.

If the goal is to pass or run efficiently versus the best defenses and score TDs he sets an enormously high mark.
He basically demonstrated how to beat Nick Saban's all-NFL defense to the point they are trying to change the rules about game tempo.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Actually trading him after the season leaves us with a ton of dead money but no real change in cap hit as his is 27 mil next year. The trade or release must be done before the league year starts however to avoid triggering his salary guarantee.

Since when is 9.5m no real change?

 

[jterrell]

So we are cutting Romo in 2015 and taking a $37m hit in cap space AND have to pay him $7.5m in money that has already been guaranteed by him being on this year's roster after the third day of the league year? Not seeing it.

Can't really make him a June 1st cut next year because it guarantees another 7.5m in salary paid.

I know Jerry has cash to burn....but hard to see him letting 15m walk away as a parting gift AND taking the cap hits. Cap hits are monopoly money. When 15m LARGE is at risk, I think you just might think twice.

And I don't think anyone has Manziel in the class of Luck as a prospect. There are big name analysts questioning Manziel....there was almost no one that questioned Luck.

You'd release or trade Romo before the 3rd day negating that 7.5m guarantee.
You'd owe 19.9M not 37 and you'd gain 17m of that back as his base lifts off the cap.

you would eat 19.2m for him but the cap hit if you did nothing but play him was 27m.

A rookie QB making 4 mil plus his 19.9m is still less than his currently scheduled cap hit for 2015.

Thanks for asking so I can clarify.

As to money... Manziel as a Cowboy would make an additional Jerry 50 to 100 million dollars in year 1.
He is must see TV... as our the Cowboys. Where everyone in town has a Romo jersey already everyone would have to plop down 75 bucks to buy a Manziel one.
Financially adding Manziel is a no brainer.

As to dead money... that is pointless. It costs Jerry nothing out of his pocket ad we have double digit million dead money almost every season.

 

[xwalker]

If we were two GMs talking we'd have a lot more access to data about mental make up.
As is we don't, so the point is moot.

While fair to question JM's mental makeup there is no real score to use for it.
Nick Saban and the Duke football team would probably rate it pretty highly.
He seemed quite a leader in his last football game when he led a come back in a bowl game from 35-7 down to win.

I coach young athletes and look at their mental make ups all the time.
The key thing is will they put int he work and can they play under pressure.
Manziel passes both tests as far as anyone can point to.
We don't have any deeper dives.

in reference to college performances: Vince Young

 

[casmith07]

So what happens when Manziel doesn't win in Dallas, assuming the absurd hypothetical comes true?

 

[tideh20heel]

Since when is 9.5m no real change?

Yeah you are right I forgot about the previous 7.5 mil guarantee of this God awful deal. This has to be the worst contract in franchise history.

 

[casmith07]

in reference to college performances: Vince Young

Matt Leinart another one. Tim Tebow. JaMarcus Russell.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That would be a fair point if any of those guys had put up those numbers versus the SEC West.
Alas, it is a fairly soft point, if a point at all, because none of those guys put up the overall numbers JM did with passing and running.

Again, Manziel put up those numbers, then met NFL desired measurables.
He also aced the Wonderlic.
He hasn't failed any test set before him except appearing to be humble.

Very few poor college players turn into NFL stars.

Good players tend to play well at every level.

What, exactly, are the desired NFL measurables?

The point is not soft. I mean, the actual point is accurate. Basing a players success on historical data suggests that players who have put up big numbers does not guarantee success in the NFL. That's simply factual.

If you want to make the argument that his level of competition and his success us unique, that's a different discussion. Having said that, it's just as easy to point out that while he did have success at the SEC level, the SEC is not the NFL and the ultimate decider here is not the SEC.