Flozel, Demarcus, PacMan, Martellus, T. Newman

[FuzzyLumpkins]

T.O., Wade Phillips, Joe DeCamillis and we can add the Krakken and Carr to this list next year once we cut or dont sign them again. This is not a thread that we should have kept or paid all of these players to stay. To take it further, I would venture to say that we should not have paid many of them based on their performance on or off the field. The point of this thread is to state that when we they left we thought they were all done, yet they left playing poorly (all but TO) and then they perform better for their new teams.

This points to the culture of the Dallas Cowboys. Im not placing the blame at anyone in particulars feet, but there is something wrong with the culture of the Dallas Cowboys and it funnels down to the product on the field.

Calling it culture is so nebulous as to be meaningless.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

There's really two ways to win Super Bowls these days: 1) with an incredible all-around defense, 2) with an elite QB. Neither are guarantees but we've seen teams win with both. We've seen Rodgers/Brady/Brees do the majority of the work. We haven't seen JJ Watt single handedly win a Super Bowl. It just doesn't happen. We had our JJ Watt in Ware for almost a decade but we didn't have a great all-around defense to surround him with. People talked poorly about Ware in his final years and even after he left Dallas (heck, even when he was still in his prime). Ware wasn't the problem. He was our only player. Sorta like how Lee has been our only player for a while (though Lee's lack of durability is a lot to blame too). Ware played a big role in Denver's success these past few years, but he didn't have to do it by himself. A good all-around unit is usual a better defense than individual players. They talked last night about how Denver has the best CB trio in the NFL. But none of those 3 CBs are top 5, or maybe even top 10 in the NFL. But collectively they're the best unit. Similar to Seattle's nasty D-line led by the non-elite Michael Bennett. Superstars do help, but you can't have any weak links. We've been a defense of a few superstars and a whole lot of weak links for as long as I can remember.

 

[conner01]

T.O., Wade Phillips, Joe DeCamillis and we can add the Krakken and Carr to this list next year once we cut or dont sign them again. This is not a thread that we should have kept or paid all of these players to stay. To take it further, I would venture to say that we should not have paid many of them based on their performance on or off the field. The point of this thread is to state that when we they left we thought they were all done, yet they left playing poorly (all but TO) and then they perform better for their new teams.

This points to the culture of the Dallas Cowboys. Im not placing the blame at anyone in particulars feet, but there is something wrong with the culture of the Dallas Cowboys and it funnels down to the product on the field.

I don't think many people thought most of them were done, they just got too expensive in some cases
Just because you let a player walk doesn't mean you think he is done. Many times it's about having a cheaper option

 

[Blackspider214]

But I agree 100 percent with the OP. There is a toxic culture here in Dallas that Jerry has created the last 20 years. Our coaching staff is so inept. They don't know how to get their guys in position to win and utilize their talents and maximize their output. Marty B, Ware, Harris, Newman all had plenty of left to give but they looked done when here. Mainly because our coaches have no idea what they are doing. Especially with Marty B. We have a guy who can stretch the field and add another element to our offense but we are so hell bent on riding Witten until his wheels fall off. Escobar also has the ability to stretch the field but we won't use him. Even if he was a 2nd round pick. It's pathetic. This whole entire thing is built on the foundation of one man. Romo. When and if he goes down, we will see more 4-12 years.

Us, Washington and Detroit are the only 3 teams in the last 2 decades to not get to the NFC title game. And there is a common denominator between the three. Subpar coaching. Bad GMs and a toxic environment.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

T.O., Wade Phillips, Joe DeCamillis and we can add the Krakken and Carr to this list next year once we cut or dont sign them again. This is not a thread that we should have kept or paid all of these players to stay. To take it further, I would venture to say that we should not have paid many of them based on their performance on or off the field. The point of this thread is to state that when we they left we thought they were all done, yet they left playing poorly (all but TO) and then they perform better for their new teams.

This points to the culture of the Dallas Cowboys. Im not placing the blame at anyone in particulars feet, but there is something wrong with the culture of the Dallas Cowboys and it funnels down to the product on the field.

What about all the guys who left and were done?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

T.O., Wade Phillips, Joe DeCamillis and we can add the Krakken and Carr to this list next year once we cut or dont sign them again. This is not a thread that we should have kept or paid all of these players to stay. To take it further, I would venture to say that we should not have paid many of them based on their performance on or off the field. The point of this thread is to state that when we they left we thought they were all done, yet they left playing poorly (all but TO) and then they perform better for their new teams.

This points to the culture of the Dallas Cowboys. Im not placing the blame at anyone in particulars feet, but there is something wrong with the culture of the Dallas Cowboys and it funnels down to the product on the field.

This isn't true. I don't think anyone thought Phillips couldn't coach a defense, just not be a head coach. Also don't think any rational fans thought Joe DeCamillis was a poor ST coach, remember, just this preseason, half the board was ******** about special teams and how we should fire the coach, then when the actual special teams starters played, it got better (who would have thought). And I don't think anyone thought Bennett wasn't good, just he was immature (still is) and we couldn't really get a 2nd TE the ball. Pac man was too much of a distraction (still is) but no one thought he was done in 2008 (his 4th year...).

You have a point on Newman, many here thought he was done, but I don't think that's the case with any of the others.

 

[gimmesix]

I actually agree with the statement you're laughing at to a degree. Both were egomaniacs. Jerry wanted more credit than he deserved and wanted to be considered a football guy. Jimmy did most of the heaving lifting and didn't want to give Jerry any credit for his role in building the team.

Neither man could put aside his ego. However, Jimmy wasn't sticking around anyway, so it really doesn't matter much.

 

[Chuck 54]

Faulty conclusion.....

The same can be said of every team in the NFL that isn't already at the top.

Free Agents succeed; free agents bust. Players dwindle and then explode in a new system or culture.

Ware had back issues and didn't hold up to the nature of playing 4-3 DE. He went back to 3-4 OLB, joined an even more effective pass rusher on the other side in Von Miller, was injured again, tried something new----really worked on his core more than ever in his career, and he credits that with allowing him to bend the corner better than when he was here, running wide of the QB often.

When Ware was at his best and most effective, he never had a big time pass rusher at the other OLB spot, and he never played with strong DE's who could bring it. While he was at his best, Tony Romo was at his developing worst---inconsistent, up and down, and famous around the league for the crushing poorly timed mistakes, not to mention weak OLs, receiving corps, and secondaries.

Teams at their peak bring in free agents who make vital contributions, just as our 90's teams brought in guys like James Washington and Ray Horton who excelled here after lackluster in other places. The problem isn't who we let walk; the problem is we haven't had the great success in FA or the draft in the years Romo has been at his best. Imagine if Carr had panned out to be the shutdown corner, Jenkins hadn't been an immature knucklehead, Claybourne had avoided injuries and progressed to be as projected....we'd probably have one of the best secondaries in the NFL!

What if we'd determined to draft an OL 5 years earlier? Think that would have helped Romo?

In today's NFL, you don't have to be below average in management of your player acquisition for long before it has an enormous impact, and you don't have to make but a few solid moves around your franchise QB to suddenly be a contender.

We've been trying to build a defense and an offense for too long, a miss here or there....it's a failure.

Now, we have an aging, brittle, but still talented QB, a questionable receiving corps, and solid but not spectacular RB...maybe. Yes, we need to improve the defense, but if you're not building around that OL and Romo right now with more playmakers, you're just asking for trouble that can come from one injury.

 

[gimmesix]

What about all the guys who left and were done?

You can't count them because ... they destroy a good rant.

 

[jobberone]

T.O., Wade Phillips, Joe DeCamillis and we can add the Krakken and Carr to this list next year once we cut or dont sign them again. This is not a thread that we should have kept or paid all of these players to stay. To take it further, I would venture to say that we should not have paid many of them based on their performance on or off the field. The point of this thread is to state that when we they left we thought they were all done, yet they left playing poorly (all but TO) and then they perform better for their new teams.

This points to the culture of the Dallas Cowboys. Im not placing the blame at anyone in particulars feet, but there is something wrong with the culture of the Dallas Cowboys and it funnels down to the product on the field.

Well, what about the players who played here well then left and played poorly. Or those like Ware and Newman who were oft injured which was the reason for their substandard play.

 

[kevm3]

The problem is clear as day. Problem number 1 is Jerry and his meddling and the more immediate problem is green Jason Garrett who isn't ready for an NFL head coaching job and is getting on the job training.

 

[Seven]

I actually agree with the statement you're laughing at to a degree. Both were egomaniacs. Jerry wanted more credit than he deserved and wanted to be considered a football guy. Jimmy did most of the heaving lifting and didn't want to give Jerry any credit for his role in building the team.

Neither man could put aside his ego. However, Jimmy wasn't sticking around anyway, so it really doesn't matter much.

I agree with ya. Huge ego's, the both of them.

However, to say Jerry already had a hand in football operations is not true.

Football-wise Jimmy built it and jerry wanted to have a lot more say in it.

It happened.

Look where they are now................

 

[TheCount]

Have to laugh seeing wade phillips with a dominate defense. Idk why he couldnt here

Seems like no one CAN here.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Troy hit on this very problem a couple of weeks ago by down playing the lack of practice he showcased an overwhelming internal problem.

Did they lack practice in the season they were 12-4 or 13-3 or is it the season that they went 4-12 the year they decided to stop practicing?

 

[Silver N Blue]

Did they lack practice in the season they were 12-4 or 13-3 or is it the season that they went 4-12 the year they decided to stop practicing?

Not sure just stating what Aikman said. Not sure it is centered around the act of practicing as it is to a trend of dysfunction.

 

[jterrell]

T.O., Wade Phillips, Joe DeCamillis and we can add the Krakken and Carr to this list next year once we cut or dont sign them again. This is not a thread that we should have kept or paid all of these players to stay. To take it further, I would venture to say that we should not have paid many of them based on their performance on or off the field. The point of this thread is to state that when we they left we thought they were all done, yet they left playing poorly (all but TO) and then they perform better for their new teams.

This points to the culture of the Dallas Cowboys. Im not placing the blame at anyone in particulars feet, but there is something wrong with the culture of the Dallas Cowboys and it funnels down to the product on the field.

Not sure that makes much sense honestly.

Dallas may well have a culture issue but not sure those examples merit much.

And not sure some of those examples actually player better for new teams. Wade's never been a head coach again. He had great defense before, during and after his Dallas stop. He's not a head coach, simple.
Dallas probably has as many examples of being a guy's high point such as with Miles Austin/Jay Ratliff/Anthony Spencer and others.
Ware was a Hall of Famer here. He did what he was supposed to do in Denver but he isn't better in Denver. He had a Hall of fame career before he ever got there.

A lot of decisions Dallas made have to do with culture. Especially where a good player being released are concerned.
Pac Man Jones grew up enough to help CIN but most of the other players failed miserably after leaving.

 

[jterrell]

Not sure just stating what Aikman said. Not sure it is centered around the act of practicing as it is to a trend of dysfunction.

Aikman did not say that. Not unless his concussion was acting up because Aikman knows the practice time is mandated by the CBA.
I have heard Aikman refer to some of the injured players like Dez and Tony missing practice time so maybe that's what he was talking about.
Garrett has them practice as they are allowed. He may have given them one or two extra days off the entire season.

 

[gmoney112]

Did they lack practice in the season they were 12-4 or 13-3 or is it the season that they went 4-12 the year they decided to stop practicing?

... Silver N Blue is mistaken.

Troy explicitly stated the practices exhibited in Dallas, ie. culture. Not the actual "practices" he just inferred.

Completely different meaning.

 

[gimmesix]

I agree with ya. Huge ego's, the both of them.

However, to say Jerry already had a hand in football operations is not true.

Football-wise Jimmy built it and jerry wanted to have a lot more say in it.

It happened.

Look where they are now................

As Jerry said, he "made or approved of every football decision that required a dollar." He had the ultimate say. That's having a hand in football operations.

“I came into the NFL as the owner and general manager of this team, and one of the first decisions I made in the role of GM was to hire Jimmy as head coach,” he said. “Jimmy and I worked well together. We had great communication, and I have always appreciated what he has done for the organization. I wanted all the input in the world from Jimmy on personnel.

“During Jimmy's tenure, the authority to hire the players was with the GM," Jones continued. "But it was agreed that we wouldn't bring a player into the organization that he didn't approve of. We were a team and it worked very well. In our unique circumstances, where the owner and the GM were the same person, in the case of a disagreement -- which we never had -- the owner had the ultimate authority.”

Without ego, Jimmy would have given Jerry credit as the GM who worked together with him to bring in the players. Without ego, Jerry wouldn't have cared if he got any credit.

 

[foofighters]

This thread makes me smile. The reason why DWare couldn't quite get it done here is because we lacked interior push from our Dline. Had we had that, he'd be the GOAT. As far as newman goes, he's done. Vikings fans want him out. He had his best years with us and has hung on for as long as he has because there isn't anyone better challenging him. I am sure he won't be starting next year.