From the Iggs newspaper today. They think we are running Zeke into the ground and they love it

[ActualCowboysFan]

The source of the stat is hardly relevant.

Him being at the bottom of it and in fumbles is relevant to your claim that he has good ball security.

 

[Stash]

Use him up. I don't understand the thinking around 'saving' players at all. The whole pointing of having them and paying them is to use them.

You're not guaranteed a second contract from anybody.

It's that hack Klempski's attempt to turn the fact that the Cowboys have a top running back while the Eagles don't (one of their few big weaknesses) into some kind of a negative. He's no journalist, in fact, he's an ******* fan posing as one.

 

[mcmvp]

If the Cowboys really buy into this whole notion that RBs do eventually get used up and overworked (like they said with Murray), there's a decent chance Elliott isn't here beyond his original 5 year rookie deal anyway. So use him up now.

Absolutely. And why not? Most teams don't draft RBs that high for this reason. But if you do...might as well get the most out of the narrow window.

 

[Sydla]

It's that hack Klempski's attempt to turn the fact that the Cowboys have a top running back while the Eagles don't (one of their few big weaknesses) into some kind of a negative. He's no journalist, in fact, he's an ******* fan posing as one.

He's a hack.

But their running game and running back are playing much better than ours is. Further, I kind of like their approach to the running back situation - don't invest top assets or money into a TB. I've said that from the start when I didn't even want us to take Elliott in the first place.

 

[mcmvp]

As someone who sees a lot of Eagles games as well as other games, he seems to have a higher than normal amount of drops of interceptions.

Further on Bleeding Green Nation weeks ago, there was a long debate on his fumbling in one of the subthreads and the stats indicated that Wentz also has essentially been lucky on fumble recoveries as the Eagles tend to recover a higher percentage of his fumbles than you typically see.

He has more fumbles than I'd like to see. Sometimes QB fumbles are a result of the d-line beating the o-line and the QB not seeing a guy coming from behind. Some are entirely on the QB.

Another thing he does is hold the ball a little long at times. Not all the time, but enough to make me nervous.

 

[mcmvp]

Him being at the bottom of it and in fumbles is relevant to your claim that he has good ball security.

Ball security is a priority for any QB obviously. Did I say he excelled in the category? I think calling his performance in the area as "good" is fair. Unless you just really enjoy splitting hairs.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

Ball security is a priority for any QB obviously. Did I say he excelled in the category? I think calling his performance in the area as "good" is fair. Unless you just really enjoy splitting hairs.

Yes I do. Being at the bottom is the opposite of good. You being an Eagles fan should be intimately familiar with this idea

 

[mcmvp]

Yes I do. Being at the bottom is the opposite of good. You being an Eagles fan should be intimately familiar with this idea

Well I think splitting hairs is pointless...but carry on if you must.

 

[School]

True, but dropped INTs are not a phenomenon that happens only to Wentz.

My point with that stat is it truly is impossible to judge accurately. I'd say that if he ranked the best in the league. The person tracking the stat has no clue what the design of the play is, where a receiver is supposed to be, what options are available, etc. I enjoy some of the PFF stuff and they do create interesting talking points, but I take some of their stats with huge cases of salt.

Some subjectivity is necessary, but understand that all quarterbacks get measured under the exact same criteria. Did the qb throw an out route too late and too far inside? Did he misread coverage and throw it straight to a linebacker only to have it bounce off the linebacker's chest? Those are interceptable passes. Passes with any uncertainty are not labeled incerceptable.

Wentz ranked 26th in interceptable pass rate last year, one spot ahead of Bortles. He also had one of the worst rates in the league going into the Carolina game, although I'm not sure what it is now. He seemed to take better care with his passes that game, but he still lost a fumble.

 

[Sydla]

He has more fumbles than I'd like to see. Sometimes QB fumbles are a result of the d-line beating the o-line and the QB not seeing a guy coming from behind. Some are entirely on the QB.

Another thing he does is hold the ball a little long at times. Not all the time, but enough to make me nervous.

Not really quibbling as to why he fumbles. Just that based on historical fumble data, he/the team recovers more of his fumbles than you would typically expect. I believe the recovery rate on his fumbles was like close to 80% and typically, QB fumbles are recovered by the same team anywhere from 55-65% of the time.

 

[Swanny]

Cowboys (-6) at 49ers: The Niners are 0-6, but they've lost their last five games by a combined 13 points, and none by more than three points. They've been in almost every game.

Meanwhile, this Zeke Elliott situation is a mess for the Cowboys. He's on pace for 390 touches this year, and he's been ineffective. He's running at a 3.7 yards-per-carry clip, with 122 touches and only 28 first downs. He has clearly put on weight and doesn't look like the same player, even if his offensive line has also predictably regressed to some degree.

If the Cowboys want to run him into the ground while he isn't even playing well, all while simultaneously causing a major distraction, the rest of the NFC East should take joy in watching his suspension get delayed repeatedly.

Had Elliott just been suspended for the Cowboys' first six games, it would already almost be over and they'd probably have the same record. Instead, it is becoming a year-long distraction, and Elliott is likely still going to serve those six games at some point.

I'll still take the Cowboys here, I guess, but I love the value of getting six points, and wouldn't be surprised if the Niners won this game outright.

I have no issues running him into the ground. Ride him till he's toast or until his contract is up. Then draft a replacement

 

[Sydla]

Some subjectivity is necessary, but understand that all quarterbacks get measured under the exact same criteria. Did the qb throw an out route too late and too far inside? Did he misread coverage and throw it straight to a linebacker only to have it bounce off the linebacker's chest? Those are interceptable passes. Passes with any uncertainty are not labeled incerceptable.

Wentz ranked 26th in interceptable pass rate last year, one spot ahead of Bortles. He also had one of the worst rates in the league going into the Carolina game, although I'm not sure what it is now. He seemed to take better care with his passes that game, but he still lost a fumble.

Where can I find this interceptable pass stat? I never knew something like that even existed!

 

[mcmvp]

Some subjectivity is necessary, but understand that all quarterbacks get measured under the exact same criteria. Did the qb throw an out route too late and too far inside? Did he misread coverage and throw it straight to a linebacker only to have it bounce off the linebacker's chest? Those are interceptable passes. Passes with any uncertainty are not labeled incerceptable.

Wentz ranked 26th in interceptable pass rate last year, one spot ahead of Bortles. He also had one of the worst rates in the league going into the Carolina game, although I'm not sure what it is now. He seemed to take better care with his passes that game, but he still lost a fumble.

I hear what you're saying. I guess I'll pay attention to it when it correlates with actual interception totals. Until then, I don't give it much weight.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

I hear what you're saying. I guess I'll pay attention to it when it correlates with actual interception totals. Until then, I don't give it much weight.

So last season?

 

[Idgit]

Where can I find this interceptable pass stat? I never knew something like that even existed!

It's a Cian Fahey thing, I believe.

 

[mcmvp]

Not really quibbling as to why he fumbles. Just that based on historical fumble data, he/the team recovers more of his fumbles than you would typically expect. I believe the recovery rate on his fumbles was like close to 80% and typically, QB fumbles are recovered by the same team anywhere from 55-65% of the time.

Could be. But less than a year and a half into his career...it's a small sample size. Hope that trend continues...all QBs fumble at times.

 

[Idgit]

I hear what you're saying. I guess I'll pay attention to it when it correlates with actual interception totals. Until then, I don't give it much weight.

It is something that did catch up with Wentz last year, though. Through three weeks, his pick rate was lower than Dak's and people were updating the competition after each game. That changed later in the season.

It's the primary reason why I think your third down success rate is unsustainable, too.

 

[mcmvp]

So last season?

Hardly. He threw 607 passes last year (which is a ton for any rookie). His INT% was 2.3%...middle of the pack. I think most would agree that when a team is playing from behind and throwing that much, the chances for INTs increases. So yes, it's a flawed stat.

 

[mcmvp]

It is something that did catch up with Wentz last year, though. Through three weeks, his pick rate was lower than Dak's and people were updating the competition after each game. That changed later in the season.

It's the primary reason why I think your third down success rate is unsustainable, too.

Well yeah, I don't think so either. It's hard to maintain that stat north of 50%

 

[Idgit]

Hardly. He threw 607 passes last year (which is a ton for any rookie). His INT% was 2.3%...middle of the pack. I think most would agree that when a team is playing from behind and throwing that much, the chances for INTs increases. So yes, it's a flawed stat.

He also threw a ton of safe passes in those 607. Stats can be flawed in both directions.