How is this possible?

[MisterPinstripe]

An article going over what Native Americans think:

http://volokh.com/posts/1242423155.shtml

 

[Hoovie]

They call themselves that, to cover up the embarressment of their true name....the DEADSKINS, why else do you thing they had mascots named The HOGS....

Deadskins is more offensive then Commanders... at least don't remind me that my people have been wiped out.

Is the name Commander culturally insensitive... of course. Are there enough of the Tribes left to give a ****? No. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and there simply aren't enough of us/them left to squeak.

P.S. As noted before, if we want to get technical, the character used by the vikings is also culturally insensitive.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

They could just change the name to 'foreskins'.

For their log, the could have a ........

Um, never mind, that probably would be offensive.

 

[lewpac]

Washington should trade their nickname to Philadelphia for what it's worth: A box of jock-straps, two tubes of Ben-Gay and a kicking tee.

Philly should then change their new moniker to The Philadelphia ThinSkins.

Washington's new name should be The D.C. DoorMats.

The Giants, feeling left out, would change THEIR name to The New Jersey Jealous.

Dallas, of course, remains THE DALLAS COWBOYS.............as there is no compulsion or need to change a winner.

There's your new NFC East, and the solution to the "Commander" problem.

 

[Woods]

Deadskins is more offensive then Commanders... at least don't remind me that my people have been wiped out.

Is the name Commander culturally insensitive... of course. Are there enough of the Tribes left to give a ****? No. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and there simply aren't enough of us/them left to squeak.

P.S. As noted before, if we want to get technical, the character used by the vikings is also culturally insensitive.

Chinese must have used your rationale in taking over Tibet.

But hey, that makes it alright!


/off

 

[starfrombirth]

When you stop to really think about it, what kind of a name is the Commanders?

How is that even a team name? It's a blatant racial slur. It would be like calling a team the N'ers or something. It's just wrong, yet its tossed around like its nothing throughout the sporting community.

Just a thought to ponder...

Get over it dude. This political correct, oversensitive, race card bullcrap is getting old. Everyone wants to be sensitive about something and it's just getting old.

 

[daschoo]

P.S. As noted before, if we want to get technical, the character used by the vikings is also culturally insensitive.

a danish soccer fan. don't think the viking thing can be deemed offensive if the people you're worried about use the same imagery

 

[Hoovie]

Chinese must have used your rationale in taking over Tibet.

But hey, that makes it alright!


/off

Someone in England scolding a person who is a 1/4 native over empire building?

Now THAT my friends is funny.

This topic is too much for a forum dedicated to the cowboys and football.

 

[BAT]

Apologies, I'm not fluent in perjoratives. I guess spics are for Hispanics, while Italians are wops, dagos, guidos, grease ball, mafioso, etc.


As for those equating words that are clearly not slurs to words that are obvious slurs, I feel sorry for you. One day you'll make that mistake w/the wrong person.


Fighting Irish is not drunken Irish. Nor is Viking the same as ****. Commander is equal to walking up to someone and calling them the "N" word, or coon, chink, abo, ****, buck, boy, hadji, little d*ck, hymie, Jesus killer, jigaboo, jungle bunny, camel jockey, kike, mud duck, nacho, nip, pollack, (fill in the blank) monkey, rag head, rice-eater, slant, slant eyes, slope, spade, (fill in the blank) n*gg*r, white/trailer trash, wonder bread, yid, zipperhead, etc.


These are words of HATE. If you can't understand the difference, more the pity for you and yours.

 

[Hoovie]

Hey Bat, I think you missed some:
http://www.rsdb.net/

Also, from that site:

Commander Native Americans The term Commander, came from two places, the skin color, then the cruel torture of skinning Native Americans for a bounty. Since their skin was red they started saying "red skins."

On a side note, why is it ok to type out all of those racial slurs, but then simply say "the N word". Is it somehow MORE offensive than the rest?

 

[firehawk350]

Hey Bat, I think you missed some:
http://www.rsdb.net/

Also, from that site:


On a side note, why is it ok to type out all of those racial slurs, but then simply say "the N word". Is it somehow MORE offensive than the rest?

Actually, yes. Offensive terms are determined by A) the perception and B) the intent of the word used. The worse the perception and intent, the worse the word. Most of those can be spit at somebody with equal vitrol, but for whatever reason (and I'm sure with a little bit of searching, you can find it), the n word is perceived much worse than any other.

 

[firehawk350]

Hey Bat, I think you missed some:
http://www.rsdb.net/

Also, from that site:


On a side note, why is it ok to type out all of those racial slurs, but then simply say "the N word". Is it somehow MORE offensive than the rest?

Actually Commander originally was a very benign term used by Indians themselves. Whether that term was misconstrued to mean something different over time is another story, but originally a term of respect. Here's an excerpt from a study done for this (by the way, this article is fully sourced and academically peer-reviewed).

'One need not accept Harjo’s unfounded claim that the word Commander “had its origins in the practice of presenting bloody red skins and scalps as proof of Indian kill for bounty payments” to accept that many find the word objectionable in current use. But the actual origin of the word is entirely benign and reflects more positive aspects of relations between Indians and whites.'

'It is clear from the earliest citations that Commander was regarded as an Indian expression. It was at first used only to translate what Indians said or as a consciously adopted Indian turn of phrase employed in formally addressing Indians.'

'[James Fenimore] Cooper’s use of Commander as a Native American in-group term was entirely authentic, reflecting both the accurate perception of the Indian self-image and the evolving respect among whites for the Indians’ distinct cultural perspective, whatever its prospects. The descent of this word into obloquy is a phenomenon of more recent times.'

http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/Commander.pdf

 

[rysko]

who cares

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Give me a break.

The United States is becoming so politcally correct its not even funny. I hate the Commanders, always have, always will, but this is just stupid.

Look, my ancestors are from Norway and Sweden, but you don't see me getting upset over the Vikings and their stupid mascot. People can be offended about anything, get over it.

Come on. It's 2009, not 1989. South Park and the like pretty much took care of the extreme excesses of PCism more than a decade ago.

We're arguing here over the single most offensive remaining mascot name in existence (in the States at least). Nobody cares about the Braves or the Indians or the Tomahawk Chop. The word 'Commanders' is an all-out slur.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Actually Commander originally was a very benign term used by Indians themselves. Whether that term was misconstrued to mean something different over time is another story, but originally a term of respect. Here's an excerpt from a study done for this (by the way, this article is fully sourced and academically peer-reviewed).

'One need not accept Harjo’s unfounded claim that the word Commander “had its origins in the practice of presenting bloody red skins and scalps as proof of Indian kill for bounty payments” to accept that many find the word objectionable in current use. But the actual origin of the word is entirely benign and reflects more positive aspects of relations between Indians and whites.'

'It is clear from the earliest citations that Commander was regarded as an Indian expression. It was at first used only to translate what Indians said or as a consciously adopted Indian turn of phrase employed in formally addressing Indians.'

'[James Fenimore] Cooper’s use of Commander as a Native American in-group term was entirely authentic, reflecting both the accurate perception of the Indian self-image and the evolving respect among whites for the Indians’ distinct cultural perspective, whatever its prospects. The descent of this word into obloquy is a phenomenon of more recent times.'

http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/Commander.pdf

Good point. But I doubt that the Commanders organization was using it in that original sense -- Cooper died an awfully long time ago.

 

[PullMyFinger]

Apologies, I'm not fluent in perjoratives. I guess spics are for Hispanics, while Italians are wops, dagos, guidos, grease ball, mafioso, etc.


As for those equating words that are clearly not slurs to words that are obvious slurs, I feel sorry for you. One day you'll make that mistake w/the wrong person.


Fighting Irish is not drunken Irish. Nor is Viking the same as ****. Commander is equal to walking up to someone and calling them the "N" word, or coon, chink, abo, ****, buck, boy, hadji, little d*ck, hymie, Jesus killer, jigaboo, jungle bunny, camel jockey, kike, mud duck, nacho, nip, pollack, (fill in the blank) monkey, rag head, rice-eater, slant, slant eyes, slope, spade, (fill in the blank) n*gg*r, white/trailer trash, wonder bread, yid, zipperhead, etc.


These are words of HATE. If you can't understand the difference, more the pity for you and yours.

LOL what is a zipperhead? If its too inappropriate to post on the forums PM me. Ive heard of all of those slurs but that one.

 

[jobberone]

A zipperhead is someone of Asian descent. It was coined in the Korean war.

 

[RoadRunner]

They've been doing it for years...

Yep, and they have even gone after names that were not racist, but referenced Native Americans such as Seminoles, Chiefs, and Indians (though ironically, people from India don't seem to have any problems with this).

 

[random Cs]

I call bull. I challenge any man who believes this to come with me to an Indian reservation here in Arizona. Walk up to a group of men and call them Commanders.

No one has ever taken me up on this challenge.

If it is not a slur, what do you have to fear?

Using the word as a slur makes it a slur. I could take a random word, say banana, and walk in a rough area saying, Hey Bananas! Or Waddup Bananas! and it probably would not be received so well.

On the flip side, if I am at a game cheering, Go Commanders! I am clearly talking about the football team. If you are saying, Commanders Suck! you are clearly talking about the football team, not insulting Native Americans.

Fighting Irish is not drunken Irish. Nor is Viking the same as ****. Commander is equal to walking up to someone and calling them the "N" word, or coon, chink, abo, ****, buck, boy, hadji, little d*ck, hymie, Jesus killer, jigaboo, jungle bunny, camel jockey, kike, mud duck, nacho, nip, pollack, (fill in the blank) monkey, rag head, rice-eater, slant, slant eyes, slope, spade, (fill in the blank) n*gg*r, white/trailer trash, wonder bread, yid, zipperhead, etc.


These are words of HATE. If you can't understand the difference, more the pity for you and yours.

There is an obvious difference. You could not create the Dallas Monkeys with a black man as your mascot claiming it was done to honor African Americans. Julian Bond would not create a mascot for the Dallas N_____'s to honor African Americans.

Your position that Commander = other racial slurs is not proven so easily. Many have failed to do so and linguists have mixed results on the origins of the word.

This country, even racist white men like George Marshall, respected the Native American as a warrior. Sports teams are named so in respect of that.

Our Indian head logo was partially created by Walter "Blackie" Wetzel. (ironically, Blackie was his Blackfoot appointed name)

You can read about him here: http://www.helenair.com/articles/2003/11/03/top/a01110303_01.txt

 

[Hostile]

Using the word as a slur makes it a slur. I could take a random word, say banana, and walk in a rough area saying, Hey Bananas! Or Waddup Bananas! and it probably would not be received so well.

On the flip side, if I am at a game cheering, Go Commanders! I am clearly talking about the football team. If you are saying, Commanders Suck! you are clearly talking about the football team, not insulting Native Americans.

I'll go into any area in the world that you want me to and say "waddup bananas." I doubt very much it will cause me trouble. Some people might ask what it means, but I am pretty sure I can answer something that is not offensive and it will be fine.

I doubt very much you can do the same. Of course it's a slur. At least you can admit it. Something many Commanders fans cannot do.