Hurst, Vea or Payne?

[Rayman70]

Read the article on Blogging the Boys just now. It pretty much makes a strong case for Payne,and for the reasons I already stated earlier. He's ready to roll now. He could be a devasting force as an under tackle and a premier run stuffer and force up the middle. Much like Fletcher Cox for Philly...same body type.Vea..I worry about his weight at 344 and his NFL conditioning. Can he remain on the field or will he be a specialty/situational player? At 19 we need a 3 down guy IMO..not a spot duty guy. Draft Payne or Hernandez/O.Brown at 19 and be happy as heck. Any one of those guys would start and play at a high level for a long time. Here's a caveat..its possible Roquan Smith/Edmunds falls and I dont rule out a move up to nab one. Linebacker is still a need,although not at the top of the list.

 

[Rayman70]

There is a great article up on blogging the boys right now about this very subject - I surgest you all go read it (or someone who knows how please link it here).
Puts it better that we can.
And I agree 100 % with the article ...

Just read it...and I agree with it also. Supports my thoughts as well.

 

[slick325]

I'm beginning to lean towards Payne then Vea. Control the LOS on both sides of the ball and this team will be something to see.

 

[DanA]

Agreed.

Dan - curious on your thoughts on Hurst?

I think his first step is exceptional and hand use very ordinary. He’s got a Donald type get off and keeps his pads low which helps him beat his man and handle double teams surprisingly well but I don’t think it’s enough for me to want to take him at 19.

I need a guy that can not just get home but can also setup Lawrence on a stunt and I don’t think Hurst has the versatility and hands use to do that.

In that regard I think Payne is a better fit but I’m more inclined to go someone like Shepard in the 3rd. I just don’t see value in drafting a guy with such limited production in the 1st.

 

[AmishCowboy]

1) Vea: Three down 1T that can collapse the pocket on passing downs and plug up the middle on run plays.
2) Hurst: Three down undersized 3T. Marinelli type player that could make big impact in DT rotation.
3) Payne: Two down 1T that can plug up the middle and make plays in the run game. To me, Payne is the type of 1T that Dallas won't take in the 1st. Figuring they can get more value from this type of player in later rounds.

Tim Settle or BJ Hill come to mind

 

[cnuball21]

I think his first step is exceptional and hand use very ordinary. He’s got a Donald type get off and keeps his pads low which helps him beat his man and handle double teams surprisingly well but I don’t think it’s enough for me to want to take him at 19.

I need a guy that can not just get home but can also setup Lawrence on a stunt and I don’t think Hurst has the versatility and hands use to do that.

In that regard I think Payne is a better fit but I’m more inclined to go someone like Shepard in the 3rd. I just don’t see value in drafting a guy with such limited production in the 1st.

Interesting - I agree on the get off and pad level but will have to dig on his hand use, as I don't recall seeing in scouting reports.

Interested to see what his arm length will be too.

 

[cnuball21]

Stays healthy and requires double teams. Not gonna show up in the stat sheet but just goes about his business and allows others to make plays while he occupies 2 guys. Thats a big deal. From time to time he flashes as well.

Ahhh I see what you're saying.

In that case I'd disagree, as if I'm going DT in the top 20 I want someone that's making plays a la Vea or Hurst.

If you want a big body that can eat blocks I think there is way more value in a guy like Settle.

 

[Rayman70]

I think we could conceivably draft a WR at 19..like Sutton if he slides..or James Washington. I would hate the Washington pick for this reason. He can't run routes crisply and get seperation. H ewas asked to catch a ton of 50/50 balls at Okie State. IMO..we have a guy like that in Dez. I would rather draft Payne or Will Hernandez at 19,then come back in roiund 2 for D.J. Moore if we want to get a well rounded WR. IMO..Moore is better than Washington. Sutton I would love,but he wont be there at 19. I rather draft Moore and sign a FA like Paul Richardson..THEN SAY bye bye to TWill...and Brice Butler.

 

[kiheikiwi]

Ahhh I see what you're saying.

In that case I'd disagree, as if I'm going DT in the top 20 I want someone that's making plays a la Vea or Hurst.

If you want a big body that can eat blocks I think there is way more value in a guy like Settle.

Im sick of the "if you want a big body ....."
Thats Marrinelli's downfall, we need the talent that goes with the big body !
How many 6th-7th rounders and UDFA have the Cowboys taken over the last few years that dont even make the squad.
Take. The. Talent.
Its my damm hope that this year, Payne or someone like him DOES fit Marrinelli's criteria for the 1-tech.
I wont hold my breath but how in gods name can all these FO people who are supposed to be smart, not realize/see that this train of thought has not worked ?
My ray of sunshine is that a lot of the talking heads are openly questioning is this the year ? Is now the right time ?
I really hope so, been on the Payne band-wagon since the 2016 college season. And will stay there till the moment hes drafted by another team than ours.

 

[cnuball21]

Im sick of the "if you want a big body ....."
Thats Marrinelli's downfall, we need the talent that goes with the big body !
How many 6th-7th rounders and UDFA have the Cowboys taken over the last few years that dont even make the squad.
Take. The. Talent.
Its my damm hope that this year, Payne or someone like him DOES fit Marrinelli's criteria for the 1-tech.
I wont hold my breath but how in gods name can all these FO people who are supposed to be smart, not realize/see that this train of thought has not worked ?
My ray of sunshine is that a lot of the talking heads are openly questioning is this the year ? Is now the right time ?
I really hope so, been on the Payne band-wagon since the 2016 college season. And will stay there till the moment hes drafted by another team than ours.

Preach!

This is why I've been screaming DT early for the last 10 years!!!

 

[Rayman70]

Thats right. We have been exposed in the middle for 15 years...We get a stud to line up next to Collins..then its Katy bar the door!! We would be very tough to run on,and in this league thats what you want as your foundation to a team,stopping the run FIRST. The SB teams that win typically are good against the run...ie Philly. That puts the secondary in an advantage as well..knowing teams have to pass..its good all the way round,pass rush etc. Go get PAYNE!!

 

[Rayman70]

Preach!

This is why I've been screaming DT early for the last 10 years!!!

I think our last legit stud at DT was Canty or if we go back further, Leon Lett/Hennings. This is America's team..this shouldnt happen. We should have solved this issue years ago. If u examine the DT/Middle linebacker and Safety positions...those have been our weak areas for over 15-20 years. Thats a LONG time man. Love Sean Lee but he should be the weak side backer. Smith should be the strong side...and if Hitch leaves,we must draft a stud to come in and be a very fast learn...and he better be able to start day 1. I'm looking at Roquan Smith.Rather have a DT first,but lets not rule out a LB. Sean Lee held the defense hostage when he was out with injury.

 

[DanA]

I'm all for a change in policy regarding drafting DT's. I'm not really for over drafting a guy that probably more of a 1/2 than a genuine 1st round talent.

 

[cnuball21]

I think our last legit stud at DT was Canty or if we go back further, Leon Lett/Hennings. This is America's team..this shouldnt happen. We should have solved this issue years ago. If u examine the DT/Middle linebacker and Safety positions...those have been our weak areas for over 15-20 years. Thats a LONG time man. Love Sean Lee but he should be the weak side backer. Smith should be the strong side...and if Hitch leaves,we must draft a stud to come in and be a very fast learn...and he better be able to start day 1. I'm looking at Roquan Smith.Rather have a DT first,but lets not rule out a LB. Sean Lee held the defense hostage when he was out with injury.

I'd go further back then that as I think Canty was average, maybe Jason Ferguson?

Hatch had a few good seasons but that was a different scheme if I remember correctly.

 

[Rayman70]

I'd go further back then that as I think Canty was average, maybe Jason Ferguson?

Hatch had a few good seasons but that was a different scheme if I remember correctly.

Thats right...I forgot about him. He was a good player. La Roi Glover also.Seems like light years the last time we had premier DT's.

 

[DiResta]

Im sick of the "if you want a big body ....."
Thats Marrinelli's downfall, we need the talent that goes with the big body.

if Dallas wants to keep Lee around and healthy
they need a 1 tech that keeps the guards off him
if there was a stud 1 tech i would move Lee back to mike his natural position
get speed at will if Smith cant do it
if Lee runs clean he can wreck games plus he is great covering over the middle
he used to get picks all the time from the mike

 

[WillieBeamen]

I think our last legit stud at DT was Canty or if we go back further, Leon Lett/Hennings. This is America's team..this shouldnt happen. We should have solved this issue years ago. If u examine the DT/Middle linebacker and Safety positions...those have been our weak areas for over 15-20 years. Thats a LONG time man. Love Sean Lee but he should be the weak side backer. Smith should be the strong side...and if Hitch leaves,we must draft a stud to come in and be a very fast learn...and he better be able to start day 1. I'm looking at Roquan Smith.Rather have a DT first,but lets not rule out a LB. Sean Lee held the defense hostage when he was out with injury.

Jay Ratliff

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't believe Hurst is Aaron Donald. I think he's probably closer to a La'Roi Glover but that's still pretty damn good. I would be very surprised if the Cowboys were not really interested in getting this player. If he is there, I think he is probably the pick.

I do believe that Vita Vea could be like Haloti Ngata. He has that kind of raw ability, that kind of size and strength. Now, he is not that yet but he has that kind of ability IMO. I don't think he is the guy we would take, if Hurst and Vea were both on the board and that's unfortunate because I do like this kid and think he could be really special.

Payne, to me is maybe Brandon Williams. Still a very good player, might be a late first round pick or an early second.

If you want a guy later in the draft who would fit our scheme, that guy could be Poona Ford from Texas. He fits the scheme to a tee, except he is a little short. He has longer arms but he is just short. Motor for days, disruptive, slants well, has a lot of heart. He fits in a rotation type scheme and he might be around in the 6th or later, perhaps.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't believe Hurst is Aaron Donald. I think he's probably closer to a La'Roi Glover but that's still pretty damn good. I would be very surprised if the Cowboys were not really interested in getting this player. If he is there, I think he is probably the pick.

I do believe that Vita Vea could be like Haloti Ngata. He has that kind of raw ability, that kind of size and strength. Now, he is not that yet but he has that kind of ability IMO. I don't think he is the guy we would take, if Hurst and Vea were both on the board and that's unfortunate because I do like this kid and think he could be really special.

Payne, to me is maybe Brandon Williams. Still a very good player, might be a late first round pick or an early second.

If you want a guy later in the draft who would fit our scheme, that guy could be Poona Ford from Texas. He fits the scheme to a tee, except he is a little short. He has longer arms but he is just short. Motor for days, disruptive, slants well, has a lot of heart. He fits in a rotation type scheme and he might be around in the 6th or later, perhaps.

Payne's a very high floor, very high ceiling player. His ceiling is Sapp. Similar size, build, and athletic ability.

He is by far the safest of the three. Vea is very raw and Hurst needs to add size and strength. Payne is more pro ready than either.

What I like about him is he can play both DT positions. He anchors and disengages double teams meaning he can man the nose. He has the quickness and hands to get penetration meaning he can play the 3.

 

[speedkilz88]

if Dallas wants to keep Lee around and healthy
they need a 1 tech that keeps the guards off him
if there was a stud 1 tech i would move Lee back to mike his natural position
get speed at will if Smith cant do it
if Lee runs clean he can wreck games plus he is great covering over the middle
he used to get picks all the time from the mike

The Cowboys are in nickel (2 LBs) so much he basically still is playing the Mike when in pass coverage.