Informal Poll Is Garrett a better Head Coach than Wade?

[Doomsay]

yes. There was more "don't quit" in our team last year than any time during wades tenure.

But there has been an equal amount, if not more, "don't execute" under the current HC.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You can judge the HC based on his ability to develop the talent that he is given and use the talent to win games.

Nevertheless, this is all predicated on having someone higher up bring in a pool of decent players for the coach to choose from.

So is there some way we can compare how Garrett and Wade wold fare coaching the same group of players.

Oh yeah, there was that 2010 season where Wade got the whole offseason to put in his plans for the year and develop his defense. He got to start with Romo, an elite QB with Kitna an established veteran backup QB behind him. Meanwhile Garrett got that same team but after Romo was injured with the aged Kitna as his QB and Stephen McGee as his backup. Garrett also couldn't rely on having one of the best DCs in the game in his fold but had to hire one of Wade's lieutenants, a failed college HC named Paul P who had a week with Garrett to try and re-design a porous defense that just gave up 83 points in the last two weeks under the defensive genius of Wade Phillips.

Wade: 1-7
Jason: 5-3

Verdict: Garrett in a landslide

Now add on other things a HC can bring to a team like discipline, organization, culture, player development, coach recruitment, draft guidance. On these measures it is also Garrett in a landslide.

Phillips inherited a very talented roster that BP gave up on. Wade immediately saw the opportunity to build a great team by putting the offense in Romo's hands and fixing some of Parcells defense of the 80s and bring it into the modern game and voila - an explosive offense and a decent defense leading to a 13-3 record with brilliant play on the field. That very easily could have been a SB team. Then the next year things start to fall apart as Wade can't keep the team in check, Jerry has gone wild after the success of the "TO experiment" and brings in guys like Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones and drafts a guy like Marty B and Choice. The team gets off to a slow start and he can't quell the mutiny. Finally Romo gets hurt. Things get even worse when he doesn't talk Jerry out of the RW11 trade where a first and third rounder are given up for a mediocre ex-Longhorns player. Finally Romo comes back but the OL struggles with Proctor in there since Wade can't convince Jerry to invest in the OL beyond all those high paid vets who are playing mediocre ball. This ultimately culminates in the 44-6 collapse against the Eagles. But that team still had a lot of talent and with a healthy Kosier the OL is back to being pretty decent again most of the time until Colombo gets hurt but this time there is a decent backup in Free so things continue to be okay and we win the division going away and cream Philly. But then Wade decides to put Colombo back in and he struggles a bit. Then he gets demolished against the Vikings and loses us the game. Then Flo gets hurt and he can't even pull Colombo and sub in Free anymore. Then finally there is the disaster that is the 2010 season with the team in freefall.

The end analysis is Wade started with a veteran team with a rising young core of Romo, Witten, Barber, Rat, TNew, Bradie and Ware. The problem is that he only wanted to play vets but those vets got old, we got tight against the cap and couldn't buy new ones and the cupboard was bare in the developing propspect ranks. That's what happens when guys like Ware, Barber, RW11, Flo, TNew, Bradie, Hamlin, Miles and Bigg are all playing on their second contracts and not on their cheaper rookie deals. If you can't develop young players to step in for a lot of your vets and you have to pay free market payscale for Jerry's hype machine causing your players to be overrated around the whole league you're going to hit a wall at some point in time. We hit that wall in 2010 when all those previously signed players were already released and creating dead cap space or were about to be released due to fall in level of play.

Now Garrett came in charge at a different time. Most of the talent on the roster had already peaked (Ware, Witten, Romo, Spencer, Austin) or was nascent (Lee had yet to start a game, Dez was a returner and #3 WR who could only run 3 routes, AOA busted, 2009 busted, 2008 never developed). So the fundamentals needed to turn a team around weren't there - very little in the way of young and developing players, no cap space, no extra draft picks. Everyone thinks it is a given that Lee and Dez were going to be great but Lee only played 5 games last year and Dez faced numerous cries to be traded or outright release by this fan base after the 2010 offseason, the inconsistent 2011 season and the bad 2011 offseason followed by a slow start to the 2012 season. In other words, if Garrett was going to rebuild this team he had to do it the hard way - get some of the vets to play better, develop his own draft picks and UDFAs, scrape the bottom of the vet FA barrel and hope for some luck. Unfortunately the luck didn't come in 2011 with late key injuries to Holland, Murray, Austin "losing the ball in the lights", TNew's legs giving out down the stretch, Kosier's legs giving out down the stretch, JPP's blocked FGA, Bailey's misses against AZ and Balt, Dez's finger against NYG.

I think the thing that has me most convinced that Garrett is gong to be good though is the way his players are developing and the way his players fight. Everyone was convinced that Church was going to bust in 2012 but he looked great until he got hurt. People thought Costa was terrible but he looked like he had turned the corner last year when he got hurt. Mo looked good for a rookie. The lights really turned on for Dez. Spencer set a personal record for sacks in a season and really picked up his play after Ware got hurt. Hatcher picked up his play the last two seasons after Rat's play tailed off. Lee looked like an All-Pro before he got hurt in 2012. Carter looks like a future Pro Bowler after many worried he would bust and insisted a backup plan be in place (re: wasted cap dollars on Connor). Look at Hanna develop when everyone insisted that he couldn't catch the ball. Look at how Harris turned himself into a dangerous punt returner and amazing RAC WR after being released in 2011. Players all across the roster seem to be stepping up now that they have been in the system surrounded by players who work really hard and follow the leaders that have developed. Guys like Lee, Witten, Romo and Ware show these guys what it takes to be a professional on and off the field and act as models for success. This rubs off on those behind him who no longer have the goofballs and misfits to look up to anymore (TO, MartyB, Choice, Hurd, Tank, Pacman). Lee takes Carter under his wings and then he is out there flying around after Lee gets hurt keeping us in games. The other thing I admire is the fight these players have in them. The way they came back against Cinci when they were badly outmatched on the talent front after Brown's death. Or how about the way they fought back to take the lead in Cleveland, then come back after Rob Ryan blew the coverage and then won it in OT. How about how they came back against the Skins (35-3) and the Giants (23-0) or the Ravens in the second half or the Saints down 2 scores with 5:00 to go. This team just doesn't quit no matter the score and no matter how outclassed they are in talent on the field. They just keep fighting and clawing.

The way I see things the seeds of success have been planted with all the drafts and the nurturing of these players to develop them into excellent pro football players with great ability and work ethic. The next wave of Cowboys stars is going to explode so long as the injury bug goes back to its historical norm. I believe in the players we have assembled and now with Rob Ryan gone and Kiffen/Marinelli in place I believe in the coaches, too.

I so look forward to this season. An average OL should put is in the second round of the playoffs with a chance to play one of the league's best teams.

The best part of all is that I think they have developed a sustainable model of talent acquisition and player development. The last key cog will be the development of young defensive coaches to mold as the future after Kiffen and Marinelli retire. We all saw with Jimmy Robinson that even great coaches can suddenly decide they need to hang them up. Neither Eberfluss or Henderson will be ready for a couple of years. I think Eberfluss is special and is going to be a great DC - I am so happy he decided to stay here and learn under Kiffen and Marinelli.

I think we have entered a new age where this FO is thinking about sustainability instead of gambling that they are one vet away from a shot at the SB. This is a mentality that lead to moves like Bigg's signing, RW11 trade, Galloway for 2 firsts and accepting the risk of cancer with TO and Pacman. I still could see us signing a premier vet at the right price and at the right position but I think it is more likely to be on favorable terms for the team. That is how you build a sustainable winner and play for something year after year. This is the way Tex/Brandt/Landry did things and that is how you stay successful for a long time. You need to develop a core and then you need to keep renewing it. Jerry's problem has been that when he has found success he has stayed stagnant but that model will never work in football with the short shelf-lives of players and the minimal impact any one non-QB has on the team of 27 starters.

finally, somebody with a little bit of sense. wade's history says he screws up every team he has been a head coach. nothing changed when came to dallas. start 13-3, with a nice talent base. proceed to screw it up.

btw, wade wanted Williams the LB and thought he can be an all pro!!! how did that work out for you? we wasted 2008 and 2009 drafts. and wade was in charge. compare drafts under wade, vs. those under garrett.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Wade...........2 division titles and a playoff victory


Garrett.........500 head coach that has never finished higher than 3rd in East.



The scoreboard doesn't lie, so far Garrett has not come close to the results Wade gave us. I don't care about RKG and standing in a straight line for the national anthem, the NFL comes down to one measuring stick...........WINS.

you are comparing history of a failed coach (no sense in arguing that), vs a head coach that hasn't finished writing the book yet.

we know wade is a failure. no denying that. so lets not even go there.

by the same token, aikman went 1-15 and 7-9 his first two seasons. should we have considered aikman a failure? Rex grossman took a team to the superbowl. is he deserving of HOF?

 

[BoysFan4ever]

I would take Wade over Jason.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I would take Wade over Jason.

you woudl take 100% gauranteed failure over potential for success? are you a masochist?

 

[Doomsday101]

No, what you do is get rid of a bunch of gutless players. These guys are pros. They should sct like pros. At the very least, they should have enough pride and self respect not to quit. I.will be glad when every one of those players that quit are gone from this team. A pro that quits is always a quitter and should never be forgiven.

You can't cut 53 you can cut 1 in terms of HC that is a common around the league. As for the player some of them have been cut loose as Garrett has taken over.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

you woudl take 100% gauranteed failure over potential for success? are you a masochist?

I think Wade is a better coach.

 

[IrishAnto]

I think Wade is a better coach.

As a DC quite possibly, as a HC the jury is still out on that one.

 

[CowboyGil]

Too soon.TBD.

 

[khiladi]

Wade is light years ahead of Garrett as a coach. The tragedy is that Wade has this guy as an OC during his tenure here, with his consistent one-and-out drives that put a lot of pressure of the defense.

 

[khiladi]

A strong coach would not have let that happen. You have to knock Wade for that. He knew the deal coming in and was unable to manage it.

Funny how Garrett apologists are now saying Garrett is being hamstrung by Jerry and can't do his thing... Remember the 2009 draft in which Jerry traded away 3 draft picks to get Roy Williams, the one everybody blames on Wade. Guess what? That was done by Jerry to assist Garrett's inept offense. Wade doesn't even like to waste first round draft picks on WRs, let alone throw away 3 draft picks for one.

Talk about an incompetent coach getting so many free passes. Part of Jerry's mismanagement is having Garrett here in the first place and making moves that he thinks will help him, but in the long run don't. Now we are seeing Jerry finally returning to some sanity, by essentially demoting Garrett.

 

[Doomsday101]

Funny how Garrett apologists are now saying Garrett is being hamstrung by Jerry and can't do his thing... Remember the 2009 draft in which Jerry traded away 3 draft picks to get Roy Williams, the one everybody blames on Wade. Guess what? That was done by Jerry to assist Garrett's inept offense. Wade doesn't even like to waste first round draft picks on WRs, let alone throw away 3 draft picks for one.

Talk about an incompetent coach getting so many free passes.

Myself I don't think Garrett is being hamstrug by Jerry. I think they work together for the same overall goal which is to win games.

As for Garrett future that will depend on him getting this team winning games. I think Jerry and the organization are getting some good players in here and while more work needs to be done in certain areas other areas of weakness seem to be getting addressed.

Garrett is now in his 3rd full season as HC I think fans should demand results and I think Jones expects results.

 

[khiladi]

It appears that Garrett was definitely responsible for the hiring of the WR coach and the previous WR coach. It was also reported that Garrett definitely wanted to get rid of the previous RB coach.

When Rob Ryan was hired, it was reported that he was not Garrett's 1st choice but Jerry wanted somebody with more experience than the DC that Garrett preferred. Now RR is gone and replaced by someone (Kiffin) that Garrett is much more closely associated with. Garrett was also associated with the Special Teams coach and Marinelli.

It appears that the only staff change that Jerry forced on Garrett was the ousting of his brother as the TE coach. Even that move appears to be beneficial to John Garrett in the long run.

And yet Garrett wanted Floyd a 3-4 Nose tackle as their first pick, when the team went 4-3.

 

[khiladi]

Garrett is now in his 3rd full season as HC I think fans should demand results and I think Jones expects results.

No truer words have been spoken. My personal view is, he's been given too much time, but this is the make-or-break year. If he doesn't perform, there is no amount of justification any of his fans can say to keep him here.

 

[Doomsday101]

And yet Garrett wanted Floyd a 3-4 Nose tackle as their first pick, when the team went 4-3.

and Parcells wanted Spears ahead of Ware so fricken what. Flyod is a good player in the end Jerry and others in the organization felt that 2 players Frederick and Williams was the better deal. How that plays out we shall see but this notion coaches get everything they want? BS, they don't most teams it is not one person making the selction there are many people involved.

 

[khiladi]

My criteria for the question is:

If a new head coach came to the Cowboys, would he want to inherit a team previously coached by Garrett or previously coached by Wade?

IMO, the answer is easily Garrett.

Wade allowed the team to become a mess full of Prima donna type players.

The team might have had more talent in some of the Wade years; however, the mental makeup of Garrett's teams is much much better, IMO.

Really, because the MVP of the defense last year was a Wade pick and Sean Lee was also drafted by him. He didn't even have a top 10 pick his whole time he was here. Look at the disaster of our OL picks during Wade's tenure, when Jason Garrett was in total charge of the offense. It was well-known Wade wanted Solari as OL for a zone blocking scheme, while Garrett wanted Houck. And yet, Garrett is going zone-blocking scheme.

The guy is all over the place. He has no process in reality.

 

[Doomsday101]

No truer words have been spoken. My personal view is, he's been given too much time, but this is the make-or-break year. If he doesn't perform, there is no amount of justification any of his fans can say to keep him here.

I don't I think anytime you hire a HC you give him 3 to 4 years to do the job. As Shannahan told the skins, you hire me you give me 4 years if your not going to do that then don't hire me.

Most of the time it takes time to put things in place it does not happen overnight. If all a team does is hire a coach and within 2 years they don't win they fire the Coach then that team is in for a lot of problems.

 

[khiladi]

and Parcells wanted Spears ahead of Ware so fricken what. Flyod is a good player in the end Jerry and others in the organization felt that 2 players Frederick and Williams was the better deal. How that plays out we shall see but this notion coaches get everything they want? BS, they don't most teams it is not one person making the selction there are many people involved.

A good player for a 3-4 maybe, not a 4-3. The fact that Jason looked oblivious when Jerry over-ruled him shows how over-rated this guy is. Jerry bypassed Floyd to get Frederik to help stop the pressure in the middle for Romo, the key weakness in our offense. Jason's foresight on offense was suppose to be his shining grace.

 

[Doomsday101]

A good player for a 3-4 maybe, not a 4-3. The fact that Jason looked oblivious when Jerry over-ruled him shows how over-rated this guy is. Jerry bypassed Floyd to get Frederik to help stop the pressure in the middle for Romo, the key weakness in our offense. Jason's foresight on offense was suppose to be his shining grace.

I know the reasons why but things are not always seen eye to eye and yes the GM will normally be the tie breaker. Were there others wanting the Floyd pick? Yes that is why he was rated as highly as he was on our board.

Myself I like the Frederick and Williams selection and yes it gives us needed help on the OL and more help at WR.

I can't say I would have been upset with the Floyd pick since DL is also an area of concern and again Floyd was rated highly on our board.

 

[khiladi]

The idea that Jason is better personnel wise is another concocted myth by his fans. Besides the fact guys like Dan Reeves say Wade is one of the best personnel guys they ever worked with (JJ Watt is just another testimony to this reality), the majority of the incompetent draft picks during his tenure were on offense. The OL picks were a disaster. The fact that Jason Garrett brought in Houck, when Wade wanted Solari should give enough proof of who was making the decisions on those picks. Do people think Wade was picking OL men for Houck's scheme and Garrett's offense? And Solari was a zone-blocking scheme guy. Who was setting this offense back with his process?

Wade never had a top 10 draft pick. Wade was given a whole bunch of veterans by Parcells, meaning he was actually way more ham-strung then Jason ever was in developing a team. Smith was a given as an OL. Garrett just got over-ruled by Jerry for a guy that could most probably protect Romo for multiple years in the middle of the pocket and is intelligent. Marinelli said Floyd can't even get to the QB and is a 3-4 NT and doesn't fit the scheme.