Jalen Ramsey is Quentin Jammer

[Western]

Not really. If Ramsey can take out one side of the field ala Sherman / Revis he'll be worth the pick even if he doesn't create a tun of turnovers.

Yet, Sherman was a 5th round pick (smart drafting by the Seahawks -- good value).
If Seattle can find a Sherman in the 5th round, why cannot Dallas find a similar player in that round--it is called maximizing your picks.
Revis selected no. 14 in the 2007 draft (Patrick Wills, Marshwan Lynch, Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, & Joe Thomas all picked before Revis).

Point its ~ value at 4 elevates the required results/worth for the #4 pick.
Shutdown corner/cover safety, interception machine, aggressive hitter, forced fumbles, team leader, ball-hawk, etc, -- he at least, at a minimum should have the impact of the likes of Sean Taylor (#5 selection in the 2004 draft).

 

[BoysWin]

I'm assuming a lot of folks on this board are from Texas which is why I find it curious that no one has noted the obvious parallels between these two players. Nearly identical builds and forty times, both hyped as athletic corners that could translate well at safety.

How did that work out? Yes, Jammer played for 11 seasons but no one would accuse him of being anything other than a middle of the road defensive back. I'll be so excited if we pass on the next Emmitt Smith for the next Quentin Jammer! And then the Ramsey crowd can explain to us how taking a RB at #4 was too high and that losing Murray had no tangible impact on this team whatsoever! Exciting times ahead.

I am not a RAMSEY fan - does not create turnovers. Awesome athlete. Give me a slow Everson Walls who makes plays - creates turnovers at CB

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm assuming a lot of folks on this board are from Texas which is why I find it curious that no one has noted the obvious parallels between these two players. Nearly identical builds and forty times, both hyped as athletic corners that could translate well at safety.

How did that work out? Yes, Jammer played for 11 seasons but no one would accuse him of being anything other than a middle of the road defensive back. I'll be so excited if we pass on the next Emmitt Smith for the next Quentin Jammer! And then the Ramsey crowd can explain to us how taking a RB at #4 was too high and that losing Murray had no tangible impact on this team whatsoever! Exciting times ahead.

There is no way to know if Ramsey will be the next Jammer or the next Ronnie Lott nor is there any way to know what Elliott would do well or bad. This smug thread is ridicules to make your guy great and down play another when the fact is no one knows how any of these players will do at this next level.

 

[boysfanindc]

Well IMO, both sides are becoming annoying lol. When you hear the Zeke crowd talk it just seems like it's coming from their fantasy football instincts. People are acting either pick is a bad pick. Both are two of the best players in the draft. Neither side needs to convince us which is the better pick. Ramsey fits more of a need now but if he's off the board I won't shed one tear if we settle for Zeke.

Again for me, I don't feel a need to tear down either player to have a value discussion.

I believe both players have the potential to be very good to great.

For me it comes down to:

One is value @ 4 and one is not.
One is @ a position of need one is not.

If you want Zeke then trade down get him @ a value price and pick up picks to address the D.

If Boys don't take him @ 4 he will fall to the 8-10 range.

That should tell you what you need to know about value.

But I would still take BPA @ a position of need @ 4.

 

[speedkilz88]

If the Cowboys picked at #6, which of the two isn't going to be there?

 

[erod]

I think Claiborne is still stinging a bit. As are Mike Jenkins, Roy Williams, and to some extent, JJ Wilcox.

I also think taking Byron Jones last year plays into this.

Jerry wants his new Emmitt. And it's not crazy to think Elliott could be in that class one day. HE'S THE BEST RB IN THE DRAFT!

What would we think of Emmitt these days if he was drafted by Cleveland or Jacksonville instead?

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

no he's not.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yes, because Ed Reed had NINE interceptions in his last season at Miami, three times the number of interceptions Ramsey had in his entire career. Meanwhile, Ezekiel had 23 touchdowns in his final season. Twenty. Three. But hey! Screw production! We need an ATHLETE! LOL.

Lets hope that the Chargers agree with you and pass on Ramsey.

 

[cowboys2233]

Jammer wasn't nearly the athlete nor had the versatility of Ramsey. What scouts really loved about Jammer was that he was super tough on jams and was a great tackler for a corner. But, he speed wasn't the best and he was relegated to playing on the outside. I can envision Ramsey playing any spot in the defensive backfield including the slot.




YR

His speed wasn't the best and Ramsey's is? Ramsey's forty time was exactly .01 faster than Jammer's. In other words, identical. This is exactly what I'm talking about -- those of you citing Ramsey's athleticism and supposed great play have no idea what you're talking about. You have listened to the talking heads build this guy up all winter and you have bought in hook, line and sinker. Heck, even NFL scouts are saying there isn't a lot of tape on this guy -- and yet, some of you are claiming to know that he is a sure thing. Where on earth are you getting that from? You have no clue. None. He had THREE interceptions his entire career, so what in God's name are you basing any of your accolades on? Yeah, that's right - talking heads.

 

[cowboys2233]

Lets hope that the Chargers agree with you and pass on Ramsey.

Yeah, you know all about Ramsey's playing ability, huh? Sure you do. You certainly can't be focusing on his actual on-field production, but hey, I'm sure you know all about Ramsey's skills and how they'll translate to the NFL. They didn't translate at the college level in the form of interceptions (unlike Ed Reed, who was clearly a ball hawk in college too), but yeah, I'm sure he'll be snagging ints left and right at the next level. LOL.

 

[jday]

I'm assuming a lot of folks on this board are from Texas which is why I find it curious that no one has noted the obvious parallels between these two players. Nearly identical builds and forty times, both hyped as athletic corners that could translate well at safety.

How did that work out? Yes, Jammer played for 11 seasons but no one would accuse him of being anything other than a middle of the road defensive back. I'll be so excited if we pass on the next Emmitt Smith for the next Quentin Jammer! And then the Ramsey crowd can explain to us how taking a RB at #4 was too high and that losing Murray had no tangible impact on this team whatsoever! Exciting times ahead.

Let's throw the above through a logic filter, and then follow that up with an enthusiasm scrub:

Ramsey is probably not the playmaker many in the zone are making him out to be; he's more like a happenmaker (he simply has the instincts to make [explicit] happen) with a whole lot of potential to improve due to his physical attributes. In my mind, he very well could be the next Sean Lee (minus the interceptions and injuries)...only at Safety.

Ezekiel Elliott is not Emmitt Smith...at least, it's too soon to tell. But with that offensive line and Romo behind center with the likes of Dez, Witten, Beasley, etc on the field, he could have Emmitt-like production. If you ask me, I say Elliott stands to make the most tangible immediate impact and therefore is worthy of the 4th overall pick, so (sticker price be damned), my vote is Elliott. But I would love to see the Cowboys figure out away to come away with both. Regardless of what they do for the rest of the draft, I would give them an A+++. (Enthusiasm scrub missed a spot...oh well)

 

[dallasfan4lizife]

Your statement.


Ramsey is a freak and most people that know what the hell they are talking about would agree.

People debate whether or not Tunsil is top 2 but even if Tunsil is #2 you usually see Ramsey in front or behind him on any ranking.

Ramsey is a stud and will help us mightily for a decade in the secondary.

Just like claiborne. Wasn't a fan of that pick, and i'll feel exactly the same if we waste a pick on Ramsey.

He isn't a play maker. If you draft a CB or safety that high, they better be an eric berry, patrick peterson, or even joe haden. On top of that we want him to switch positions. He'll probably be a decent starter, but I don't think he has that all-pro ability like the players mentioned.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

His speed wasn't the best and Ramsey's is? Ramsey's forty time was exactly .01 faster than Jammer's. In other words, identical. This is exactly what I'm talking about -- those of you citing Ramsey's athleticism and supposed great play have no idea what you're talking about. You have listened to the talking heads build this guy up all winter and you have bought in hook, line and sinker. Heck, even NFL scouts are saying there isn't a lot of tape on this guy -- and yet, some of you are claiming to know that he is a sure thing. Where on earth are you getting that from? You have no clue. None. He had THREE interceptions his entire career, so what in God's name are you basing any of your accolades on? Yeah, that's right - talking heads.

40 times are skewed because they are all coached techniques to shave off times in the 40. Game speed with the pads and football cleats is a completely different story.

Look at the broad jumps (135 inches vs. 124 inches) and verticals (41" vs. 36") and you see explosiveness and range. Or just look at the Sports Science video on Ramsey.

Far, far, far, better athlete.

Interceptions don't mean everything in the college game. College teams run the ball far more often than NFL teams and in the college game, your worst athletes are on the defensive side and conversely, your best athletes are on the offensive side. So coaches in college are going to target those weakest athletes and stay away from the studs.

There is nothing that I have seen in watching him that makes me question his instincts, anticipation and hands as to why he can't get more INT's in the pass happy NFL.




YR

 

[Dorsett33]

Fixed it for you.

There seems to be dogs on both side.

I believe both players have the potential to be very good to great.

For me it comes down to:

One is value @ 4 and one is not.
One is @ a position of need one is not.

If you want Zeke then trade down get him @ a value price and pick up picks to address the D.

If Boys don't take him @ 4 he will fall to the 8-10 range.

But I would still take BPA @ a position of need @ 4.

No...if you want him...go get him. This value thing is way overrated. If you can get him at #4, you go get him. Regardless if its Zeke, Ramsey, or Bosa. You trade down and try to get cute, and you miss out on both guys that you might of had in mind. There's no such thing as value until you play the game. Sheeesh!

 

[cowboys2233]

There is no way to know if Ramsey will be the next Jammer or the next Ronnie Lott nor is there any way to know what Elliott would do well or bad. This smug thread is ridicules to make your guy great and down play another when the fact is no one knows how any of these players will do at this next level.

At least my stance is based on actual production. 23 touchdowns. Unstoppable. Against some of the very best defenses. He absolutely thrashed the all-world Alabama defense -- the same defense that completely stifled the "can't miss" Fournette. But hey, that's the Alabama defense, no one can run on them! Yeah, Ezekiel Elliott can. Ezekiel Elliott abused that defense multiple times.

Meanwhile, you're loving Ramsey's three interceptions and a bunch of hot air from talking heads. Good job. LOL.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yeah, you know all about Ramsey's playing ability, huh? Sure you do. You certainly can't be focusing on his actual on-field production, but hey, I'm sure you know all about Ramsey's skills and how they'll translate to the NFL. They didn't translate at the college level in the form of interceptions (unlike Ed Reed, who was clearly a ball hawk in college too), but yeah, I'm sure he'll be snagging ints left and right at the next level. LOL.

Not at all. I am not a scout and I don't watch much college. Are you claiming to be an expert? From everything I have read the kid is as talented as it gets.

 

[Doomsday101]

At least my stance is based on actual production. 23 touchdowns. Unstoppable. Against some of the very best defenses. He absolutely thrashed the all-world Alabama defense -- the same defense that completely stifled the "can't miss" Fournette. But hey, that's the Alabama defense, no one can run on them! Yeah, Ezekiel Elliott can. Ezekiel Elliott abused that defense multiple times.

Meanwhile, you're loving Ramsey's three interceptions and a bunch of hot air from talking heads. Good job. LOL.

I have never said a bad thing about Elliott but I do not need to trash another player in the process. Ramsey is not rated as highly as he is for nothing and that has nothing to do with talking heads. If Dallas gets Zeke great I will be pulling for him, if it is Ramsey same thing but acting like some child where if Dallas does not do what you feel they should then you are going to whine and holler and run around saying I told you so? Grow up

 

[cowboys2233]

I have never said a bad thing about Elliott but I do not need to trash another player in the process. Ramsey is not rated as highly as he is for nothing and that has nothing to do with talking heads. If Dallas gets Zeke great I will be pulling for him, if it is Ramsey same thing but acting like some child where if Dallas does not do what you feel they should then you are going to whine and holler and run around saying I told you so? Grow up

So, in other words, you have decided to conveniently forget all of the hype surrounding Claiborne before the Cowboys moved up in the draft to get him. Yes, it is entirely possibly Ramsey is rated that highly for nothing.

 

[Doomsday101]

So, in other words, you have decided to conveniently forget all of the hype surrounding Claiborne before the Cowboys moved up in the draft to get him. Yes, it is entirely possibly Ramsey is rated that highly for nothing.

I'm not forgetting nothing. All of these prospect are rookies none proven on the Pro level not even Zeke. I have seen big name RB in college bomb in the NFL there is absolutely no sure thing out there. I don't care about hype and these players are not being ranked on draft boards across the NFL based on hype for outsiders, they have their own scouts who spend a lot of time looking at these kids. Jalen Ramsey happens to be a player that is a consensus top 5 player I did not make that up. If you don't like him fine that is your view and your opinion that frankly means nothing except to you. Telling others how they should feel about any players is stupid, you know all and the rest know nothing. Maybe it is you who does not know all that much.

I'm not a Jalen groupie or a Zeke groupie, I think both players earned their way to the top of NFL boards around the league and if Dallas which ever player the Cowboys manage to get I hope nothing but the best out of them, since I am more about the Cowboys than personal views

 

[TNCowboy]

I am not in favor of drafting Jalen Ramsey with the 4th pick. Or drafting any other DB that high for that matter.

But Ramsey's a better talent than Jammer with more upside. Jammer played like a corner, Ramsey plays like a safety. He is a far more physical player (though that is possibly a detriment in today's game). Ramsey will wind up a safety in the near future IMO, and he should be evaluated in that regard.

A lot of Ramsey's lack of playmaking was how he was used. Eric Berry was probably the best playmaking safety in college football his first 2 years. His final season, he had 2 picks and no sacks because Monte Kiffin decided his best playmaker was best used as a centerfielder a mile from the action.