Jerry still the biggest problem

[G2]

No. Every time somebody says something that I haven't heard before about Garrett and attributes the quote to him, I want a link. Lots of stuff gets said bad about him, and lots of stuff he's actually said gets linked. If it's referenced and I know what the poster is referencing, I don't ask.

You'll notice that when I do ask for a link, I almost never get one. That's probably because people tend to paraphrase things that aren't actually said. If you guys are going to jump on every little thing, it's not too much to ask that we stick to the little things that are actually real and not imaginary. Or is it?

And I probably am his biggest defender on the board. I happen to think he's a pretty good fit for a tough job and the team's actual problems--and they have them--are mostly elsewhere. I'm not sure Jason's the guy to get it done in Dallas, but I think he might be. And I don't think the reason we haven't gotten closer since he's been here as as much to do with him and his staff as it does with the way we go about finding talent and where we're spending our resources.

He would be the right guy for the difficult task if he did a better job on game day and in situational football. The team is poorly coached and you can't simply blame the talent. They're not calling the shots. By shots I mean bombing it in the end zone on 4th and two instead of running the ball. Passing in the red zone on 1st and goal inside the 5 until we have to settle for a FG. How can you defend poor game time decisions over and over. And when we DID have a solid team, we piss it away in the post season.

 

[DallasEast]

..maybe winning those 3 90's SB's, ..was a good situation turned bad? He probably thought this is going to be easy, playing it his way, and that adamant thought has never left his mind.

Not really. Winning Super Bowls did not make Jerry Jones into Jerry Jones. Jones has always been the person you see today.

Jones is a beneficiary of circumstance. When Jones bought the franchise, he had the perfect successor for Tom Landry in mind. Not only was Jimmy Johnson the perfect head coaching candidate at that time, Johnson had been friends (or at the very least, acquaintances) with Jones since their college days. Johnson had already proven he had a keen coaching mind and was highly successful at the college level. Johnson's coaching talent translated instantly with Dallas--even from the 1-win season start.

What some people weakly acknowledge or disregard entirely is that Jones is a narcissist. What is not considered widely is a particular what if:

What if Jones had not convinced Johnson in becoming his head coach?

Who would have Jones hired if he did not have Johnson basically in his back pocket already? This is something not thought about. Jones was 'taking credit' for any successes Dallas was enjoying before winning the first Super Bowl. He was simply not being as overtly public about what he meant to his franchise as he exhibited once Dallas finally won it all. That was the tipping point for self-exposing his personality fully to the entire world 24/7.

The infamous '500 coaches' declaration is more a reflection of Jones' inner self than a boast. Jones 'knew' he could win if he convinced the right coach. The right coach at the beginning just happened to be Johnson. That was a lucky happenstance. It could have been Barry Switzer. Would Switzer have transformed Dallas into a Super Bowl team? Jones today is the same guy he was in 1989. Scratch Switzer as an option. Could (fill in the blank) have been the head coach candidate Jones hired who could have led the team to one or more championships at that time?

Throttling down rant now. It just gets me how some continually ponder after all these years the reasons why Jones morphed into who he is now. For Pete's sake, he has always been the same person, inside and out!

/rant

 

[dfense]

I still can't understand why some people follow a team who's owner they hate for 25 years or more.

 

[Idgit]

Why do I have to find these things for you? Here is one of them I found with a quick search.

What help could have been given to Chaz Green?

Broaddus: I asked (Cowboys head coach Jason Garrett) this question today, when you think about double-teaming, or helping, or chipping away, and all that... tackles don't usually like help on the outside because tight ends get in the way, running backs get in the way. They get out of position and it messes up your block, so you've got two guys screwing up the play instead of just one. He goes, "You're absolutely right about that. You want to help him as much as you can, but you have to be careful of how you help him."

He said, "Let me tell you this though, as a staff, we made a bad mistake. We should've got some help sooner, we should've tried some things sooner. That's on us."

For exactly this reason. You're quoting Brian Broaddus's paraphrasing what Garrett said, and you did it without saying so, or providing a link.

I'm not asking you to do anything I wouldn't expect anyone else to do or wouldn't do myself. If I'm quoting somebody, I provide the quote. If I don't, and they ask for it, I go and get it. It's how people on message boards are able to distinguish a primary information from something second-hand.

I'm actually pleased in this case that you actually had a quote from Broaddus. That's better than I expected, honestly.

 

[OmerV]

No. Every time somebody says something that I haven't heard before about Garrett and attributes the quote to him, I want a link. Lots of stuff gets said bad about him, and lots of stuff he's actually said gets linked. If it's referenced and I know what the poster is referencing, I don't ask.

You'll notice that when I do ask for a link, I almost never get one. That's probably because people tend to paraphrase things that aren't actually said. If you guys are going to jump on every little thing, it's not too much to ask that we stick to the little things that are actually real and not imaginary. Or is it?

And I probably am his biggest defender on the board. I happen to think he's a pretty good fit for a tough job and the team's actual problems--and they have them--are mostly elsewhere. I'm not sure Jason's the guy to get it done in Dallas, but I think he might be. And I don't think the reason we haven't gotten closer since he's been here as as much to do with him and his staff as it does with the way we go about finding talent and where we're spending our resources.

I've come to believe it's time to move along from Garrett, but I agree completely with you about people misrepresenting, or even fabricating, things to make him look bad. All one has to do to argue that it's time to move on from Garrett is point to the inconsistency and mediocre track record - I don't disagree that he is in a difficult situation and there are factors that he has little ability to control (Jerry), but ultimately it's still his job to find a way to win and develop consistency whatever the circumstances. But this doesn't justify all the imagined nonsense, the twisted quotes, the irrational reading between the lines with every ordinary comment he makes, the irrelevant BS about his hair color and his habit of clapping.

 

[Idgit]

He would be the right guy for the difficult task if he did a better job on game day and in situational football. The team is poorly coached and you can't simply blame the talent. They're not calling the shots. By shots I mean bombing it in the end zone on 4th and two instead of running the ball. Passing in the red zone on 1st and goal inside the 5 until we have to settle for a FG. How can you defend poor game time decisions over and over. And when we DID have a solid team, we piss it away in the post season.

I don't necessarily defend the poor decisions as much as I recognize they're going to happen and that they happen to every team. I don't think it's fair for knocking the Cowboys for not committing to the run when they run more than every other team in the league. I don't think it's fair to jump on the offensive staff for red zone production when they're typically top 10 or better in terms of their red zone scoring rate. I don't get all over them for putting together a 14 play, team-eating drive where they call a dozen runs and two passes when the rookie QB makes the right read and throws the ball on an RPO. I can recognize that it's a mistake, but it doesn't mean I want to fire the coordinator for it. Just like I get that Dak played really well in a situation but makes a bad read or throws a bad ball now and then.

I don't buy that we pissed away playoff games due to coaching, either, but I'm happy to hear how you think we did. I'm sure there were calls we'd live to have back, but generally speaking, our teams were well prepared and played hard in both of those games. We got beat, as we so often do, because the opposing QB was a lot better than our coverage. And that happens because we outspend the defense 2:1 and neglect it in terms of the draft picks we allocate to that side of the ball.

I will say this about the last GB playoff game. I fault the coaching in that we gave up an early score by letting Sean Lee get singled up in coverage 30 yards down the field on a TE (?), and we blew it in thinking we could make defensive substitutions against Rodgers because we did it in practice. Both of those were fairly significant mistakes in my book. I put more weight on that stuff than I do in second guessing calls just because they didn't work.

 

[Idgit]

I've come to believe it's time to move along from Garrett, but I agree completely with you about people misrepresenting, or even fabricating, things to make him look bad. All one has to do to argue that it's time to move on from Garrett is point to the inconsistency and mediocre track record - I don't disagree that he is in a difficult situation and there are factors that he has little ability to control (Jerry), but ultimately it's still his job to find a way to win and develop consistency whatever the circumstances. But this doesn't justify all the imagined nonsense, the twisted quotes, the irrational reading between the lines with every ordinary comment he makes, the irrelevant BS about his hair color and his habit of clapping.

And that's an argument I buy. I have my own concerns about his ability to get us over the hump. I don't love his offense to begin with, and I do think they're too slow to make adjustments. I hate the way the team allocates its resources even if I like their approach philosophically. I've been standing on my chair asking for defensive help for 4-5 years now, and they've been way too slow to deliver it. And at some point, even if you're doing things right, if you can't get over the hump I get that you just have to move on.

If he can't get it right, he'll need to go. If there's an obvious upgrade on the street, go for it. I'm not married to Jason Garrett as much as I am to the idea that he's going about it the right way and this team really does need somebody with a conservative level-headed approach to take the air out of Jerry's balls and slow down the traveling circus that otherwise follows this team everywhere it goes.

Jason is what he is. He wins more games than he looses in a tough job with a chaotic owner making things tougher than he needs to be. That's not good enough for anybody, but there are other issues that are getting us beat I'd much rather see addressed first unless a bluebird in the form of a fantastic coach just lands in our lap (eg, Sean Payton hitting the market, or maybe Jim Harbaugh wanting to come back to the NFL).

 

[DallasEast]

I still can't understand why some people follow a team who's owner they hate for 25 years or more.

That puzzled me for a number of years until I accepted the fact that every person does not think the same way as others (which is a good thing) and individual coping methods are just as diverse. That means some people cope through self-misery.

Fortunately, I think CowboysZone and sites like it are excellent self-coping mechanisms. Every day life alone is stressful enough and CowboysZone takes off the edge--even if that edge is tiny for some and humongous for others.

 

[Kaiser]

The infamous '500 coaches' declaration is more a reflection of Jones' inner self than a boast. Jones 'knew' he could win if he convinced the right coach.

The "500 coaches" comment was a drunken boast but he was absolutely right and Switzer proved that. On the day Jerry made the comment Dallas had the twice the talent of most teams in the NFL and outstanding line coaches like Butch Davis and Mike Zimmer.

 

[Diehardblues]

Dak is in his 2nd year. You have no idea what he can become.

Your right. We don’t . We only know what we’ve seen.

 

[Diehardblues]

There is no credit to be given here. Its just odd that his "best year" was his first year. He'd be a QB coach somewhere if Jerry didn't keep trying to make him a head coach.

Garrett should have never been a HC which makes me admire him even more when he won COY and finally made the playoffs.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Garrett should have never been a HC which makes me admire him even more when he won COY and finally made the playoffs.

. Kinda like an overachieving special olympian.

 

[Diehardblues]

. Kinda like an overachieving special olympian.

Right.

Garrett was thrust into a situation he was not only not qualified for but had never been a HC at any level.

Who makes a 2 yr QB coach “ the future of a NFL franchise” before ever seeing him coach?

It still amazes we’ve done as well as we have considering our coaching staff, front office and all of the distractions and obstacles Jerry presents.

It’s like a sinking ship struggling to stay afloat.

 

[Aviano90]

Right.

Garrett was thrust into a situation he was not only not qualified for but had never been a HC at any level.

Do you defend others in the same situation...like Jeff Heath and Dak Prescott...who were thrust into a position they weren't supposed to be in but give it their all to try and be successful?

 

[Diehardblues]

We are like a special Olympic ran team.

We have an owner who shouldn’t be a GM, his son who shouldn’t be VP and a QB coach/OC who shouldn’t be a HC. And we’ve added a starting QB who should be a backup.

We’re only going to be as good as our talent on the field will carry us. And we’ll need them all.

Romo propped this team up for an era. If Dak can’t prop us up it’s not going to be pretty.

Garrett appears to have influenced Jethro & Son enough to bring in more talent and that’s probably where his expertise is .. off the field.

 

[G2]

I don't necessarily defend the poor decisions as much as I recognize they're going to happen and that they happen to every team. I don't think it's fair for knocking the Cowboys for not committing to the run when they run more than every other team in the league. I don't think it's fair to jump on the offensive staff for red zone production when they're typically top 10 or better in terms of their red zone scoring rate. I don't get all over them for putting together a 14 play, team-eating drive where they call a dozen runs and two passes when the rookie QB makes the right read and throws the ball on an RPO. I can recognize that it's a mistake, but it doesn't mean I want to fire the coordinator for it. Just like I get that Dak played really well in a situation but makes a bad read or throws a bad ball now and then.

I don't buy that we pissed away playoff games due to coaching, either, but I'm happy to hear how you think we did. I'm sure there were calls we'd live to have back, but generally speaking, our teams were well prepared and played hard in both of those games. We got beat, as we so often do, because the opposing QB was a lot better than our coverage. And that happens because we outspend the defense 2:1 and neglect it in terms of the draft picks we allocate to that side of the ball.

I will say this about the last GB playoff game. I fault the coaching in that we gave up an early score by letting Sean Lee get singled up in coverage 30 yards down the field on a TE (?), and we blew it in thinking we could make defensive substitutions against Rodgers because we did it in practice. Both of those were fairly significant mistakes in my book. I put more weight on that stuff than I do in second guessing calls just because they didn't work.

Agree to disagree. I've seen copious amounts of coaching issues. And I couldn't care less about other teams. There's no standard that justifies the idiocy I've seen.

 

[Aviano90]

We are like a special Olympic ran team.

Romo propped this team up for an era. If Dak can’t prop us up it’s not going to be pretty.

And yet, for the entire era, you were questioning Jerry hitching his horse to the Romo wagon. I believe you only switched your opinion when you could question Jerry for moving on to Dak.

 

[Diehardblues]

Do you defend others in the same situation...like Jeff Heath and Dak Prescott...who were thrust into a position they weren't supposed to be in but give it their all to try and be successful?

Dak did a great job as a backup but once he became the starter his true value was more exposed. I’d love to keep Dak as our backup.

I don’t think I’ve ever made a comment on Heath. I really have no opinion on him. But he could be like a Bill Bates over achiever type .

I had often referred to Romo as an over achiever given his lack of raw ability.

 

[Diehardblues]

And yet, for the entire era, you were questioning Jerry hitching his horse to the Romo wagon. I believe you only switched your opinion when you could question Jerry for moving on to Dak.

I didn’t agree with not putting Romo back in and I still believe it was a mistake.

I question everything . I said from the beginning Jerry would probably screw it up and I still think he did.

I’ve also said we should bring in a proven HC , let him surround himself with his own staff, etc .

But if that’s not possible I’m impresssed with how Garrett is handing the situation. Much better than most of his predecessors IMO.

And who are you Aviano? I’m assuming your from DC.com under a different name? Heath maybe?

 

[Diehardblues]

I’ve said for years. I personally like Garrett. I like he’s from the Jimmy era, his dad RIP from the Landry era and in general his families Cowboy history.

So, yes. I’m rooting for him to succeed despite all the obstacles he’s up against. If we’re going to be stuck with a puppet he’s who I’d just as soon have.

I like his persona. I like his presence . I think he brings some class to a classless ran franchise this era . All that’s lacking for all to embrace him is more success.