CFZ Jets Matchup and What We Have Learned from the Giants

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It does, though. In the aggregate, there’s no evidence running efficiency helps passing efficiency. Outside the aggregate—that is, at the level of a specific quarterback—you might find evidence that running helps limit pass attempts to a number—say, 20–that maximizes his passing efficiency. Beyond this number, he may become inefficient.

Obviously, the more efficiently you can run it, the less your quarterback has to throw it. But this isn’t true for every quarterback. Limiting prime Aaron Rodgers to 20 attempts would be stupid.

It really boils down to passing efficiency scores a heck of a lot of points while running efficiency does not. the mechanics of why that is should not be hard to understand but people like to hold onto football as it was played 25 years ago.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It will be a defensive battle, but our Offense is much better than theirs. Imagine if we trade Rush to the Jets for a good round pick.

Rush is better than Wilson. He really sucks. Everything will be right around the line of scrimmage with the Jets. They will try to run all day and screen passes, dump offs, ect....ect.....

 

[Denim Chicken]

I'm telling you don't underestimate the fact that Zach Wilson could have grown up a little this offseason

Why are you acting like you just didn't see him?

His lone TD was so off target the receiver had to reach around the defender in one of the best concentration catches I've seen.

 

[MRV52]

you are way underrating the jets offense and that Interior OL with their ability to run the football, want to stick with and run the football to keep the low-risk clock eating score lowering philosophy that the NYG did not have the patience for?
ohh by the way their defense is just as suffocating and as big time as ours....

you mentioned S.Gardner but the other dude had three interceptions. Ol . and that's against the quarterback most here have in the top five... the cowboys better find a stronger run game and the ability to run more or they will force the ball into the air and make you pay.

They can run but what if they get behind in the score? That is the key put some points on them early so they go away from the run, and if they stick to it good as they will be running out the clock for us.

 

[blueblood70]

They can run but what if they get behind in the score? That is the key put some points on them early so they go away from the run, and if they stick to it good as they will be running out the clock for us.

I think that's the point you're missing their defense is as good or better than ours and they're gonna try to make sure you can't run can't throw or can't move the ball efficiently and get frustrated until you make a mistake.. What if one of our players fumble the football what if another tipped pass goes and turns into an interception it should have been caught I mean there's a whole lot of what if games we're gonna play this is what we're talking about their defense is that good both defenses are gonna try to absolutely hold the score down to under 13 points.. So this is gonna come down to which team makes the least amount of mistakes.. And we're talking about all mistakes I mean cause field position is gonna matter can you kick a field goal but if you get a holding penalty or an offsides penalty and you have to go back out on the field that should have been a punt that all those things are gonna matter in this game in my opinion from just what we know now it doesn't mean that's how the game's gonna go but they're gonna try to do the same thing to our offense as we trying to do to their offense... If you look back at the Washington game in the final game of the season if you look back at the 49ers games if you can't run the football it messes up the entire offense.. Especially if you can't run the football against say a four to five man line that's not blitzing they don't have to do anything special then they spend the extra players up in coverage and really mess up the field mess up the timing that's what we try to do and that's exactly what they're gonna try to do..

 

[AyahuascaJet]

What's up Cowboys fans!? I am a miserable long time Jets fan just here to discuss the upcoming matchup with people that have a different point of view. I have no intention to troll but also expect y'all to take your shots. Have at it. I normally post on https://forums.jetnation.com/forum/5-ny-jets-forum/ and would invite anyone who might be interested to go there to discuss the game.

Obviously the wind was taken out of our sails even though we won MNF. I'm glad I never pulled the trigger on traveling to Dallas for this game! I thought this was going to be a difficult but winnable game with #8 behind center for us. Now, with Zach back there it's just going to be a hope the defense can dominate and the run game can move the ball type season every week unless by some miracle Zach figures out how to play QB.

If you'll take me up on it, I'll start with 5 questions for you guys to try and learn about blind spots on the Cowboys that I have.

1) How is your run defense this year? I know your pass defense and pass rush are legit but don't know much about the run D.
2) How are your LB and S groups in pass coverage? Obviously Diggs and Gilmour are very strong CB's.
3) From my POV the Cowboys always seem to have a top offensive line. Is that theme true again this year? How are they in pass protection & run blocking? I saw Edoga is a G for y'all now which surprised me (former Jet T).
4) How has Duece Vaughn been and is there any chance we see him Sunday? I was hoping the Jets would take him late but we ended up with Izzy who had a good preseason but was inactive last week. The Cook acquisition kind of put him on the back burner.
5) What in the world do you feed your defensive line?

 

[MRV52]

I think that's the point you're missing their defense is as good or better than ours and they're gonna try to make sure you can't run can't throw or can't move the ball efficiently and get frustrated until you make a mistake.. What if one of our players fumble the football what if another tipped pass goes and turns into an interception it should have been caught I mean there's a whole lot of what if games we're gonna play this is what we're talking about their defense is that good both defenses are gonna try to absolutely hold the score down to under 13 points.. So this is gonna come down to which team makes the least amount of mistakes.. And we're talking about all mistakes I mean cause field position is gonna matter can you kick a field goal but if you get a holding penalty or an offsides penalty and you have to go back out on the field that should have been a punt that all those things are gonna matter in this game in my opinion from just what we know now it doesn't mean that's how the game's gonna go but they're gonna try to do the same thing to our offense as we trying to do to their offense... If you look back at the Washington game in the final game of the season if you look back at the 49ers games if you can't run the football it messes up the entire offense.. Especially if you can't run the football against say a four to five man line that's not blitzing they don't have to do anything special then they spend the extra players up in coverage and really mess up the field mess up the timing that's what we try to do and that's exactly what they're gonna try to do..

I think we win this one easily people are really making it something it will be not be. I told everyone we will blow the Giants out of the water last week picking the score 31 to 10.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's up Cowboys fans!? I am a miserable long time Jets fan just here to discuss the upcoming matchup with people that have a different point of view. I have no intention to troll but also expect y'all to take your shots. Have at it. I normally post on https://forums.jetnation.com/forum/5-ny-jets-forum/ and would invite anyone who might be interested to go there to discuss the game.

Obviously the wind was taken out of our sails even though we won MNF. I'm glad I never pulled the trigger on traveling to Dallas for this game! I thought this was going to be a difficult but winnable game with #8 behind center for us. Now, with Zach back there it's just going to be a hope the defense can dominate and the run game can move the ball type season every week unless by some miracle Zach figures out how to play QB.

If you'll take me up on it, I'll start with 5 questions for you guys to try and learn about blind spots on the Cowboys that I have.

1) How is your run defense this year? I know your pass defense and pass rush are legit but don't know much about the run D.
2) How are your LB and S groups in pass coverage? Obviously Diggs and Gilmour are very strong CB's.
3) From my POV the Cowboys always seem to have a top offensive line. Is that theme true again this year? How are they in pass protection & run blocking? I saw Edoga is a G for y'all now which surprised me (former Jet T).
4) How has Duece Vaughn been and is there any chance we see him Sunday? I was hoping the Jets would take him late but we ended up with Izzy who had a good preseason but was inactive last week. The Cook acquisition kind of put him on the back burner.
5) What in the world do you feed your defensive line?

1) When we have Hankins in there it is great. He sits down on double teams and holds the poa well. Our hope was that Mazi would be farther along and doing the same but because of our multiple fronts he is still putting it all together. Our ends and 3-5 DT are pretty stout. Our LB are doing a good job on run fits to this point.

2) Hooker has changed our defense over the top. A lot of the big plays that were an issue before he came in have dried up. All of them are savvy in zone. Kearse in particular is good at manning up on TE and RB. LVE is a very smart instinctual player but he doesn't have ideal speed if you can isolate him on downfield routes. Clark has ideal athleticism but he can be fooled by misdirection.

3) Edoga still suck at OT but at OG his lack of lateral agility isn't a problem. He has decent power but he is not going to get any push on Williams on an isolation. It is in your best interest that Tyler Smith doesn't come back for him. He is outstanding. Biadasz is an excellent technician and does not miss blocks. He lacks ideal power and I expect you guys will try to isolate Williams on him like the Giants did with Lawrence and your former Williams. Steele and Martin on the right side are outstanding run blockers. Tyron Smith looked his old effective self last week.

4) Vaughn is a rookie and MM is reluctant to put him in yet. WE have another hyper agile player like that you are more likely to see in that role.

5) Quarterbacks.

 

[jterrell]

First of all dude don't tell me what I should and shouldn't do here's the deal I don't bet on sports I don't play fantasy football I don't play Madden I watch games and I watch how they play and I'm telling you my gut feeling is it's gonna be a dirty game their defense is great... But you can go ahead and bet on games I've never I've been a gambler if I go to Vegas I'm there for the other things..

So what all these other dudes on ESPN talk show radio social media content creators get to talk about the game and their feelings and their gut but when I'm telling you mine you're telling me I should just bet like I'm guessing what's gonna happen like nostradamus no not guessing the outcome I'm telling you the tenor of the game would it possibly is gonna be because I watched them play last year and people are underestimating this team just because of their quarterback..

What it is what all these other people have done online on TV is give their feeling about the game but somehow you don't like mine.. And by the way lastly to add to that comment that I stand behind 100% I believe we'd have been better off facing Aaron Rodgers because we would have known they would have tried to pass the ball more and that is our defensive strength is the pass rush and I think that it would have been better for us because he would take more chances with the football against our pass rush now we have to worry about them running the ball 30 times and playing strong defense and shortening the game... Sorry that's not trying to tell the future that's actually looking at what they did last year looking what they did in game one and telling you my feelings about this game I'm sorry that it bothers you but you ain't backing me off..

All that crying for what exactly?

Just to recap. Dallas was a massive favorite in this game for a reason.
Feel however you want to feel, but don't get butt hurt when people tell you are nuts.

The Cowboys are a good football team. The Jets without Rodgers are not.
Pretty simple.
And just weird for a Cowboys fan to cry about that.

 

[Garrettop]

I think we win this one easily people are really making it something it will be not be. I told everyone we will blow the Giants out of the water last week picking the score 31 to 10.

Good call

 

[starfan1]

Rush is better than Wilson. He really sucks. Everything will be right around the line of scrimmage with the Jets. They will try to run all day and screen passes, dump offs, ect....ect.....

look not that I cheer for other QBs but in back to back weeks Wilson has had to go against some pretty solid defenses.Ours being the best. Wilson can sling it and given time with his receiver wilson he can do some damage. He also needs a running game to succeed maybe another WR. Switch Wilson and Dak there may not be a ton of drop off if any given all things equal (training camp,running game and defense). Wilson needs to improve on read recognition but hes young.

Rush is garbage he benefits from being in the same system virtually his entire career. He is a back up and im not even sure hes our best back up. defense literally balled out on his starts against teams with horrid lines. The second we played a quality team he was exposed.

 

[CowboyRoy]

look not that I cheer for other QBs but in back to back weeks Wilson has had to go against some pretty solid defenses.Ours being the best. Wilson can sling it and given time with his receiver wilson he can do some damage. He also needs a running game to succeed maybe another WR. Switch Wilson and Dak there may not be a ton of drop off if any given all things equal (training camp,running game and defense). Wilson needs to improve on read recognition but hes young.

Rush is garbage he benefits from being in the same system virtually his entire career. He is a back up and im not even sure hes our best back up. defense literally balled out on his starts against teams with horrid lines. The second we played a quality team he was exposed.

You obviously havent been watching Wilson in his career. He sucks really bad.

And as far as your claim that Wilson is as good as Dak, thats just more comedy.

Rush is a REAL QB, he just doenst have the top level arm.

 

[starfan1]

You obviously havent been watching Wilson in his career. He sucks really bad.

And as far as your claim that Wilson is as good as Dak, thats just more comedy.

Rush is a REAL QB, he just doenst have the top level arm.

Comedy is your reading I didn’t say he was better than Dak because he isn’t I said if you switched the 2 there wouldn’t be a ton of drop off all things equal
Dak is so much better than him in certain aspects but Wilson has better physical traits than Dak and I’m a huge Dak fan

I’d take Wilson over rush in a second. It’s a team game and Dak has had a much better team around him than Wilson

 

[CowboyRoy]

Comedy is your reading I didn’t say he was better than Dak because he isn’t I said if you switched the 2 there wouldn’t be a ton of drop off all things equal
Dak is so much better than him in certain aspects but Wilson has better physical traits than Dak and I’m a huge Dak fan

I’d take Wilson over rush in a second. It’s a team game and Dak has had a much better team around him than Wilson

There wouldnt be a ton of drop off indicates you think they are similar level QB's. What an odd statement.

 

[starfan1]

There wouldnt be a ton of drop off indicates you think they are similar level QB's. What an odd statement.

No what it indicates is i believe that this team is built that it doesnt need a elite QB. (which Dak is not) . I think Wilson with the team we have over here and the coaching we have here wouldnt be any worse all things (factors) the same. He has a larger toolbox than Dak he just isnt the leader that dak is. Im a Dak fan but I can look at things realistic

I think you get a bit sensitive with all things Dak. again I dont believe right now they are the same level. But i do believe there wouldnt be a ton of drop off because our team is that good and Wilson unlike Rush doesnt have a noodle arm so defense have to respect his ability to sling it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No what it indicates is i believe that this team is built that it doesnt need a elite QB. (which Dak is not) . I think Wilson with the team we have over here and the coaching we have here wouldnt be any worse all things (factors) the same. He has a larger toolbox than Dak he just isnt the leader that dak is. Im a Dak fan but I can look at things realistic

I think you get a bit sensitive with all things Dak. again I dont believe right now they are the same level. But i do believe there wouldnt be a ton of drop off because our team is that good and Wilson unlike Rush doesnt have a noodle arm so defense have to respect his ability to sling it.

Oh so now we DONT need an elite QB? LOL

Funny how it changes now.

Wilson is backup material. Dak is top 7. There is no comparison. Its laughable.

And no he doesnt have a larger toolbox. That is just plain dumb to say.

Im only sensitive to really really laughable things that get said. Just like if someone said that Dak is as good as Allen which some fool said a few days ago.

Wilson can barely read a defense, makes horrible decisions and throw picks at an alarming rate. Who cares what kind of arm you have if you dont know what to do with it. ONLY think the kid can really do is run for it once in a while.

The Jets would do better with Rush at QB than the hapless Wilson.

I do think Wilson has improved, but not enough.

 

[starfan1]

Oh so now we DONT need an elite QB? LOL

Funny how it changes now.

Wilson is backup material. Dak is top 7. There is no comparison. Its laughable.

And no he doesnt have a larger toolbox. That is just plain dumb to say.

Im only sensitive to really really laughable things that get said. Just like if someone said that Dak is as good as Allen which some fool said a few days ago.

No youre sensitive to most things Dak and yes hes top 10. I think hes top ten in part because of the team around him. That doesnt mean I dont think we cant win with Dak we can and Ive been defending Dak a quite a bit from alot of dumb fans around here who think our failures are all on him.

You just like to be right and your not always right. and yes if Dak had the physical tools that Wilson has he wouldnt have been drafted in the 4th round. That said there have been QBs that were drafted early that failed Wentz is a good example of that. Jemarcus Russell is another. There have also been some drafted late that turned out good to great (Warner, Brady and Yes Romo was good).You cannot outwork Dak and perhaps that contributes to his success and hes a leader of men they will follow him. Wilson is not

I just think Wilson is in a bad spot no one has excelled with the jets and I believe he would be much better here (not that I want him). Im not a big allen fan or Herbert fan. I think alot of his success (allen) comes from having a good team around him. Hes a big boy and is elusive and has a rocket for an arm but I think he gets more love than he should just like Herbert does. Im taking the wait and see approach with Wilson to see if they continue to put plamakers around him. Right now they dont have enough. His line is questionable as well.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No youre sensitive to most things Dak and yes hes top 10. I think hes top ten in part because of the team around him. That doesnt mean I dont think we cant win with Dak we can and Ive been defending Dak a quite a bit from alot of dumb fans around here who think our failures are all on him.

You just like to be right and your not always right. and yes if Dak had the physical tools that Wilson has he wouldnt have been drafted in the 4th round. That said there have been QBs that were drafted early that failed Wentz is a good example of that. Jemarcus Russell is another. There have also been some drafted late that turned out good to great (Warner, Brady and Yes Romo was good).You cannot outwork Dak and perhaps that contributes to his success and hes a leader of men they will follow him. Wilson is not

I just think Wilson is in a bad spot no one has excelled with the jets and I believe he would be much better here (not that I want him). Im not a big allen fan or Herbert fan. I think alot of his success (allen) comes from having a good team around him. Hes a big boy and is elusive and has a rocket for an arm but I think he gets more love than he should just like Herbert does. Im taking the wait and see approach with Wilson to see if they continue to put plamakers around him. Right now they dont have enough. His line is questionable as well.

Dak is top 10 no matter what team he has around him. Hes been that way since about his 4th year.

And no Im not always right, but I'm upwards of 80% which is about as good as it gets around here.

How would Wilson be better here? He has an all world supporting cast. Top 3 defense, two great RB's and a high end WR. Quality coaching staff.

Wilson has been terrible at QB and its not because of his supporting cast.

 

[starfan1]

Dak is top 10 no matter what team he has around him. Hes been that way since about his 4th year.

And no Im not always right, but I'm upwards of 80% which is about as good as it gets around here.

How would Wilson be better here? He has an all world supporting cast. Top 3 defense, two great RB's and a high end WR. Quality coaching staff.

Wilson has been terrible at QB and its not because of his supporting cast.

Look Im not gonna get into a back and forth with you on this its not that serious to me. Dak as much as I like him was not top 10 last year .Id list him as top ten now and there are reasons that were beyond his control as to why he wasnt top 10 last year and I blame the GM for part of that. I also believe it does make a difference as a QB who your surrounding players are. If you think the Jets offnsive line is a juggernaught I think you are gonna see throughout the course of the year they arent


what makes you believe Selah is this great coach? The Jets are the ephitome of an orginazation that just finds creative ways to lose. I do agree they have a top 5 defense.Its anchored by a good secondary and Williams is a beast. Id hardly say he has an all world supporting cast. Hes got a good up and coming WR and Hall is OK. Cook is meh his glory days are done.

I believe their problems are bigger than just plug in a QB better than Wilson and its fixed. We wont know now but i dont believe Rodgers was gonna be the answer. I do believe Wilson is young and unlikeable at times but if he had a better landing spot people would be singing a different tune.

Dak landed in a perfect spot. The GM has not put together (until this year perhaps) the type of roster it takes to win it all which is why they have come up short. And yes I do believe if you swapped the 2 QBs out from draft day you could get similar results

 

[CowboyRoy]

Look Im not gonna get into a back and forth with you on this its not that serious to me. Dak as much as I like him was not top 10 last year .Id list him as top ten now and there are reasons that were beyond his control as to why he wasnt top 10 last year and I blame the GM for part of that. I also believe it does make a difference as a QB who your surrounding players are. If you think the Jets offnsive line is a juggernaught I think you are gonna see throughout the course of the year they arent


what makes you believe Selah is this great coach? The Jets are the ephitome of an orginazation that just finds creative ways to lose. I do agree they have a top 5 defense.Its anchored by a good secondary and Williams is a beast. Id hardly say he has an all world supporting cast. Hes got a good up and coming WR and Hall is OK. Cook is meh his glory days are done.

I believe their problems are bigger than just plug in a QB better than Wilson and its fixed. We wont know now but i dont believe Rodgers was gonna be the answer. I do believe Wilson is young and unlikeable at times but if he had a better landing spot people would be singing a different tune.

Dak landed in a perfect spot. The GM has not put together (until this year perhaps) the type of roster it takes to win it all which is why they have come up short. And yes I do believe if you swapped the 2 QBs out from draft day you could get similar results

Its not about the year for me. The guy is a top 10 QB or he isnt. Years will go up and down depending on the players around them and system.