JFK Assassination...Your Honest Thoughts

[Alumni2k11]

I thought everyone knew by now that it was The Comedian

http://img.***BLOCKED***/albums/v238/blue1622/Blakegrassyknoll.png

 

[CowboyDan]

Oswald is clearly a shooter and fired 3 times. We know that. We know where all 3 bullets hit, yet we still think he missed twice and the 2nd miss disappeared?

That's always been hard for me to swallow. Especially since the film lets you hear 3 shots and there was no evidence of a 2nd miss anywhere.

As with so many aspects of this event, there's differing reports on this as well. There's a rumor floated out there about a .45 slug recovered in the street. Who knows?

Do we know if the 3rd bullet was every recoverd, and if so, where did it end up? I don't remember off the top of my head.

I'm not convinced on the 3rd shot and the motion of his head. He does snap violently back and to the left, not just back, as you indicated earlier. I'm not a hunter though, so I can't speak from experience on the ballistics involved. I only know what I read and see on documentaries and the like.


Interesting slow-mo view of the Zapruder & Nix film simultaneously on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ysTEd0HWz0&feature=related
I'm not trying to get banned, so I won't embed it, but you should check out the link. Interesting way to view them.

 

[Hostile]

As with so many aspects of this event, there's differing reports on this as well. There's a rumor floated out there about a .45 slug recovered in the street. Who knows?

Do we know if the 3rd bullet was every recoverd, and if so, where did it end up? I don't remember off the top of my head.

I'm not convinced on the 3rd shot and the motion of his head. He does snap violently back and to the left, not just back, as you indicated earlier. I'm not a hunter though, so I can't speak from experience on the ballistics involved. I only know what I read and see on documentaries and the like.


Interesting slow-mo view of the Zapruder & Nix film simultaneously on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ysTEd0HWz0&feature=related
I'm not trying to get banned, so I won't embed it, but you should check out the link. Interesting way to view them.

That film absolutely convinces me the shot is from behind. I see white matter going forward. That is either brains or skull and that would follow a bullet path not reverse it.

 

[CowboyDan]

That film absolutely convinces me the shot is from behind. I see white matter going forward. That is either brains or skull and that would follow a bullet path not reverse it.

Interesting....I might be kinda sick, but I go through that video real slow....play, pause, play, pause, play pause.....and to me it looks like the wound and spray starts at the forehead and continues back. You see it opposite of that? Or is that how you see it?

 

[blindzebra]

There is absolutely no evidence of any other gunman.

They have run multiple forensic tests on the shots, locations of the shots and have proved conclusively that 3 shots came from the 6th floor of the Texas School Depository and that is it.

And if you watch the Zapruder film it clearly shows the right front side of his head blown out. A shot from the knoll would have blown out the left side and most likely have killed jackie too.

 

[Hoofbite]

Living Color said it best.

"When a leader speaks, that leader dies"

Reminds me of a George Carlin quote:

Did you ever notice who it is — stop to think who it is we kill? It’s always people who’ve told us ‘Live together in harmony and try to love one another.’ *****, Ghandi, Lincoln, John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, John Lennon — they all said ‘Try to live together peacefully.’ BAM! Right in the ****in’ head. Apparently we’re not ready for that. That’s difficult behavior for us.”

 

[CowboyDan]

There is absolutely no evidence of any other gunman.

They have run multiple forensic tests on the shots, locations of the shots and have proved conclusively that 3 shots came from the 6th floor of the Texas School Depository and that is it.

And if you watch the Zapruder film it clearly shows the right front side of his head blown out. A shot from the knoll would have blown out the left side and most likely have killed jackie too.

Not sure I follow you there. Also, who has run multiple forensic tests and proved conclusively that the 3 shots came from the 6th floor?

 

[notherbob]

I'm not convinced on the 3rd shot and the motion of his head. He does snap violently back and to the left, not just back, as you indicated earlier. I'm not a hunter though, so I can't speak from experience on the ballistics involved. I only know what I read and see on documentaries and the like.


Interesting slow-mo view of the Zapruder & Nix film simultaneously on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ysTEd0HWz0&feature=related
I'm not trying to get banned, so I won't embed it, but you should check out the link. Interesting way to view them.

I would expect his head to lurch back and to the left since his chin was already resting on his chest and could go only slightly any further forward and since the shot came from above and behind and to his right, the natural lurching reaction of the head would be to bounce off his chest and back and to the left rather than straight back.

At first I wondered why the head moved backward instead of forward as one would expect until I discovered that his chin was already resting on his chest and that is the key to his head motion.

As a former insurance investigator it doesn't bother me to discuss things like this because these are the things that must be discussed sometimes. In fact the office I was hurrying back to was my office as a claims examiner for a health and life insurance company.

 

[Hostile]

Interesting....I might be kinda sick, but I go through that video real slow....play, pause, play, pause, play pause.....and to me it looks like the wound and spray starts at the forehead and continues back. You see it opposite of that? Or is that how you see it?

The majority of the spray is in front of JFK which is consistent with the path of the bullet IMO.

If you put white paper completely surrounding him the blood is going to be predominantly in front of him. Some behind him can be explained by the path of the car.

Look, I do not completely discount all of the theories, but the one that I have to believe is that Oswald shot him. That evidence is clear.

I've seen all the stuff about the first bullet and how the trajectory is too high, but that still means a shooter on another floor of the Book Depository. It also doesn't take into account that the bullet could have hit a rib or the clavicle and slightly altered its direction. Now some will say the autopsy doesn't show any bone damage. Yeah, but there's also a missing brain. It's clear to me this was not ideal circumstances.

I do believe Oswald could have acted as the shooter and a conspiracy existed beyond him. Jack Ruby's actions lead me to accept this. Tucson had its own mafioso family. Joe Bonnano and his son, Bill. I have heard or read that when Bill saw the Ruby footage he said that was a mob hit or that Ruby was acting on orders, and there is a lot of evidence that Ruby had connections, albeit small ones, not major crime lords.

I believe LBJ could have wanted the Presidency bad enough to be part of it. I believe powerful men could have wanted the President dead.

I just do not believe in a 2nd shooter and never have. In truth, Notherbob's very first post is as convincing to me that Oswald was the lone shooter as anything I have ever seen or heard.

Over the years there is only one thing I have ever seen that had me doubt this. It was an interview with a man who claims to have been by the picket fence in the wooded area and made to leave. He was shown an enhanced photo of the area that was colorized and believes he sees himself and it chokes him up. he believes the man who asked him to leave was the infamous 'badgeman." I just don't see these enhanced images from the Moorman polaroid until they keep adding to them to make them obvious. Isn't that basically photoshopping them?

That man's emotions are what I stall on. There was also testimony of a deaf man that I saw one time that was compelling but I don't even remember what he testified to seeing.

Other than that, I remain convinced it was Oswald, and no one else pulling a trigger.

 

[CowboyDan]

At first I wondered why the head moved backward instead of forward as one would expect until I discovered that his chin was already resting on his chest and that is the key to his head motion.

Ehhh, I have a hard time buying that. Maybe all the slow-mo is getting to me, but why would his head snap back at the time you are saying the bullet exited the forehead, as opposed to when it initially enters the back of the head?
Again, I'm no expert, just a plain old skeptic.

 

[Hoofbite]

Interesting....I might be kinda sick, but I go through that video real slow....play, pause, play, pause, play pause.....and to me it looks like the wound and spray starts at the forehead and continues back. You see it opposite of that? Or is that how you see it?

The car is moving forward. Hock a fat loogie out the window and see which way it goes.

There's a reason you don't piss into the wind.

And you're also limited by the equipment used. Something like 18 frames per second, I think. There's a video on YouTube that has a much clearer version of the Zapruder film and you can basically his a good portion of skull flap around. It's national history but man it's incredibly graphic and I can't believe it's still up.

 

[CowboyDan]

The majority of the spray is in front of JFK which is consistent with the path of the bullet IMO.

If you put white paper completely surrounding him the blood is going to be predominantly in front of him. Some behind him can be explained by the path of the car.

Look, I do not completely discount all of the theories, but the one that I have to believe is that Oswald shot him. That evidence is clear.

I've seen all the stuff about the first bullet and how the trajectory is too high, but that still means a shooter on another floor of the Book Depository. It also doesn't take into account that the bullet could have hit a rib or the clavicle and slightly altered its direction. Now some will say the autopsy doesn't show any bone damage. Yeah, but there's also a missing brain. It's clear to me this was not ideal circumstances.

I do believe Oswald could have acted as the shooter and a conspiracy existed beyond him. Jack Ruby's actions lead me to accept this. Tucson had its own mafioso family. Joe Bonnano and his son, Bill. I have heard or read that when Bill saw the Ruby footage he said that was a mob hit or that Ruby was acting on orders, and there is a lot of evidence that Ruby had connections, albeit small ones, not major crime lords.

I believe LBJ could have wanted the Presidency bad enough to be part of it. I believe powerful men could have wanted the President dead.

I just do not believe in a 2nd shooter and never have. In truth, Notherbob's very first post is as convincing to me that Oswald was the lone shooter as anything I have ever seen or heard.

Over the years there is only one thing I have ever seen that had me doubt this. It was an interview with a man who claims to have been by the picket fence in the wooded area and made to leave. He was shown an enhanced photo of the area that was colorized and believes he sees himself and it chokes him up. he believes the man who asked him to leave was the infamous 'badgeman." I just don't see these enhanced images from the Moorman polaroid until they keep adding to them to make them obvious. Isn't that basically photoshopping them?

That man's emotions are what I stall on. There was also testimony of a deaf man that I saw one time that was compelling but I don't even remember what he testified to seeing.

Other than that, I remain convinced it was Oswald, and no one else pulling a trigger.

Couple of things:
- The was a ton of blood and brain/skull matter found on the trunk of the car, including the piece that Jackie O reached back for. I agree that this could be explained by the movement of the car.

- There are theories out there that say the Dal Tex building provided the proper angle for the 1st bullett to hit JFK. It is located across the street from the Texas School Book Depository. So that could be the other shooter you're referring to. Regardless, I'm definitely not as sure as you are that Oswald shot Kennedy. I'm still confused by his getaway plan. It's not the actions I expect. But maybe that was his angle. Who knows?

- I don't buy into all the enhanced photos, computer animations and all that stuff. I've always wanted to go on what I see and hear on the regular film and photos. And I love hearing all the different theories, facts and fibs about that event. It gets my brain working.

- I talked to a guy once down at Dealey Plaza. He claims he was there that day, and he looked the right age, sounded convincing, and didn't hang around the corner where most of them usually do. He didn't ask for tips or money, never even hinted at it. In fact, I was with my Mom, Nephew and Sister at the fence on the grassy knoll where the fatal shot may have come from, and as we were walking away, he overheard me say to my Mom, "so, what do you think?" as we passed by him and he said, "Oh I know that's where it came from." So naturally, we stopped and chatted with him awhile, and he went on to tell us how he was there that day and saw the gun come out of the tree line (no fence there at the time), heard the shot come from that direction, etc. etc. He seemed very convincing, but I'm sure he's told that story thousands of times. It made for a cool experience non-the-less.

 

[CowboyDan]

The car is moving forward. Hock a fat loogie out the window and see which way it goes.

There's a reason you don't piss into the wind.

And you're also limited by the equipment used. Something like 18 frames per second, I think. There's a video on YouTube that has a much clearer version of the Zapruder film and you can basically his a good portion of skull flap around. It's national history but man it's incredibly graphic and I can't believe it's still up.

I'm talking about the wound to his head, along with the spray. The wound itself appears to travel from his forehead to above his ear, and then you see the back of his head flap. I agree it's not perfect footage, but what an amazing piece of history.

 

[jimmy40]

There is absolutely no evidence of any other gunman.

[IMG]http://i298.***BLOCKED***/albums/mm253/jimmycbo/IMG_4024.jpg[/IMG]

 

[blindzebra]

Not sure I follow you there. Also, who has run multiple forensic tests and proved conclusively that the 3 shots came from the 6th floor?

There have been at least three different studies on the Discovery and History channels.

They re-enacted all the shots, annalized the film and matched it exactly with the computer. They did a 3D copy of Dealy Plaza and tested the angle of the shots from various locations versus the EXACT location of the limo and both Kennedy and Connelly. They all came fron the SBD from the 6th floor.

A shot from behind the stockade fence would have gone through his head and hit Jackie in the face.

I suggest you read Case Closed instead of all the conspiricy books.

 

[jimmy40]

I can't believe anyone thinks Jackie was reaching for brain matter, she was getting the hell out of that car, just like anyone else would have been.

 

[notherbob]

Ehhh, I have a hard time buying that. Maybe all the slow-mo is getting to me, but why would his head snap back at the time you are saying the bullet exited the forehead, as opposed to when it initially enters the back of the head?
Again, I'm no expert, just a plain old skeptic.

Had he been sitting upright, the head would have snapped forward and to the left but it could not do so because the chin of his head was already resting on his chest as he was slumped and with that much energy hitting the back of his head, it went as far forward as it could but further forward motion was inhibited by his chest so the head rebounded off his chest and lurched rearward and leftward. That's the physics of it.

They key to the whole issue is the position of his head at the instant the bullet struck; it was already resting on his upper chest and could not go much further forward, that's why the Zapruder film shows it going slightly forward before snapping backward - his chin hit his chest and bounced back. The bullet, of course, kept on going forward, only the head snapped back.

 

[Hoofbite]

Had he been sitting upright, the head would have snapped forward and to the left but it could not do so because the chin of his head was already resting on his chest as he was slumped and with that much energy hitting the back of his head, it went as far forward as it could but further forward motion was inhibited by his chest so the head rebounded off his chest and lurched rearward and leftward. That's the physics of it.

They key to the whole issue is the position of his head at the instant the bullet struck; it was already resting on his upper chest and could not go much further forward, that's why the Zapruder film shows it going slightly forward before snapping backward - his chin hit his chest and bounced back. The bullet, of course, kept on going forward, only the head snapped back.

Good eye.

You can see on the film that he's almost grasping towards the first shot when the second bullet hit came flying in.

 

[jimmy40]

http://i112.***BLOCKED***/albums/n175/way2far/DSC05081.jpg

you can tell by this picture that it's not near as far a shot as most people think. When you look out the window from the sixth floor(the one beside where Oswald was because you can't get to that one) you really realize how easy the shots would be. If you could shoot the president in the head of course.

 

[CowboyDan]

There have been at least three different studies on the Discovery and History channels.

They re-enacted all the shots, annalized the film and matched it exactly with the computer. They did a 3D copy of Dealy Plaza and tested the angle of the shots from various locations versus the EXACT location of the limo and both Kennedy and Connelly. They all came fron the SBD from the 6th floor.

A shot from behind the stockade fence would have gone through his head and hit Jackie in the face.

I suggest you read Case Closed instead of all the conspiricy books.

Did you check out the videos I posted earlier in this thread? One is the Discovery Channel show you're talking about. The second disproves it.
On that show the magic bullet shot goes through Kennedy's back and exits his sternum, then enters Connelly's back. In real life, the bullet exits Kennedy's throat and enters Connelly's armpit. Big difference. Check out the vids. I'll check out the book you recommended.