JFK Assassination...Your Honest Thoughts

[jimmy40]

Yeah, I think there was a conspiracy. Yeah I think there was a cocktail of bad guys involved. I think in order to kill the President and get away with it it would take some major players. My guess is..

Oswald didn't get away with it.

 

[casmith07]

Oswald didn't get away with it.

But did Oswald do it?

That's the question.

 

[jimmy40]

But did Oswald do it?

That's the question.

of course he did

 

[Hostile]

How much practice had they had before they did it?

No pressure, eh?

They were already visualizing it when they did it- which also helps.

Oswald had a hard time qualifying. They have NEVER found ANY evidence that he did any practice shooting before the day. The RIFLE was shown to have been with very little wear, indicating it had not been used much.

Personally I think Oswald was the fall guy and they had a backup ready to act.

He was a Marine. Pretty sure he had some training burm. My gosh.

As to practice, just because there's no evidence doesn't mean he didn't. Also, notherbob mentioned the assassination attempt on Edwin Walker. That was Oswald with the Carcano, and it was months before JFK. It's not like he never fired that gun. These guys who duplicated the feat had never fired a Carcano prior to trying this.

 

[Vtwin]

i have always been fascinated by the JFK assassination. I have read many books and have watched countless hours of documentaries on the subject so this thread is something I really enjoy. Thanks for making it Hos.

As for what I think happened, I think there were two shooters. Oswald and someone in the grassy knoll. I had a high school science teacher who was into this and kinda got me started on all of this. One of the reasons I believe in the grassy knoll shooter is that one of the experiments he did was with four types of rifles and cantaloupes.

At the approximate same distance as Kennedy was from Oswald he fired a single shot with each rifle into a melon.

Each shot fired caused the melon to explode forward with the "exit wound" being larger than the entrance wound. So if there was no second shooter Kennedy's head would have snapped forward and exploded forward, not backwards. (I know everyone is thinking Kevin Costner here).

Only explanation I have ever heard that would cause this is a very specific type of ammunition that could not have been fried from Oswald's rifle.

Yeah, I think there was a conspiracy. Yeah I think there was a cocktail of bad guys involved. I think in order to kill the President and get away with it it would take some major players. My guess is..

The Cubans and the mob both wanted him dead. I think they worked with the soviets to facilitate this through Oswald and set him up to take the fall (become the patsy).

And I would assume that the mob had bought off enough people on the Warren commission to cover the deed up.

I've shot all kinds of stuff with many different calibers. The 6.5 is a fairly small caliber round. My experience is that even with a bigger round like a 30-06 the target will not move much at all. For instance; if you shoot a watermelon sitting on a 2x6 railing with a 30-06 whats left of the watermelon will likely still be sitting on the railing. The bullet passing through will carry parts and pieces with it but the melon itself will not absorb the energy. The bullet will expand on impact so the exit hole will be bigger and quite a bit bigger if a hollow point bullet meant to expand is used. The head snapping back could have been caused by any number of other factors. The video shows the head moving forward a bit and blood etc going forward before the head violently snaps back.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Oswald didn't get away with it.

I was referring to the possible conspirators.

 

[blindzebra]

From the time I was a kid and saw thr Zapruder film on Goodnight America I read every book and thought there ws a conspiracy but there was not.

Too many years and no proof of anyone being linked to it.

Oswald's gun. Oswald's prints. Ballistic evidence to the rifle. Tippet. It is overwhelming.

Now we have computer models and re-enactments proving that the Magic Bullet could happen and all the wounds line up to the 6th floor window.

The only famous case with as much concrete evidence of guilt is OJ Simpson.

 

[blindzebra]

He was a Marine. Pretty sure he had some training burm. My gosh.

As to practice, just because there's no evidence doesn't mean he didn't. Also, notherbob mentioned the assassination attempt on Edwin Walker. That was Oswald with the Carcano, and it was months before JFK. It's not like he never fired that gun. These guys who duplicated the feat had never fired a Carcano prior to trying this.

The bad shot bs is an Oliver Stone creation. Oswald tested as expert marksman in the marines.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I've shot all kinds of stuff with many different calibers. The 6.5 is a fairly small caliber round. My experience is that even with a bigger round like a 30-06 the target will not move much at all. For instance; if you shoot a watermelon sitting on a 2x6 railing with a 30-06 whats left of the watermelon will likely still be sitting on the railing. The bullet passing through will carry parts and pieces with it but the melon itself will not absorb the energy. The bullet will expand on impact so the exit hole will be bigger and quite a bit bigger if a hollow point bullet meant to expand is used. The head snapping back could have been caused by any number of other factors. The video shows the head moving forward a bit and blood etc going forward before the head violently snaps back.

The majority of the explosion came from the back of the head. (Front to back). The head snapping back at the precise moment of bullet impact would only be from that, other factors, including the car accelerating, Jackie moving etc are discounted by the Zapruder film. Only explanation is a shot fired from the front right of the president.

 

[CowboyDan]

From the time I was a kid and saw thr Zapruder film on Goodnight America I read every book and thought there ws a conspiracy but there was not.

Too many years and no proof of anyone being linked to it.

Oswald's gun. Oswald's prints. Ballistic evidence to the rifle. Tippet. It is overwhelming.

Now we have computer models and re-enactments proving that the Magic Bullet could happen and all the wounds line up to the 6th floor window.

The only famous case with as much concrete evidence of guilt is OJ Simpson.

You really need to go to the videos I previously posted in this thread. That computer model and re-enactment you keep mentioning has been proven wrong. You can see it for yourself when you watch the program that Discovery aired. It was supposed to be a pro-single-gunman show, but when you watch their video, you clearly see that the bullett passes through Kennedy's chest, not his throat. It's not even close. Then they put up a red line to show the trajectory of the bullet, and it again goes through his chest. He wasn't hit in the chest. It's not an accurate re-enactment. I'd love to see one that is accurate, but I haven't yet. Anybody got one?

 

[Cajuncowboy]

The bad shot bs is an Oliver Stone creation. Oswald tested as expert marksman in the marines.

Indeed he was an expert marksman. And he could have made all three shots but the physical evidence of the film forces you to suspend logical thought to come to the conclusion that he acted as the lone gunman. Even the many witness that were there claimed they heard three shots. two from above and one from the ground. (Echo theories besides the point.)

 

[CowboyDan]

The majority of the explosion came from the back of the head. (Front to back). The head snapping back at the precise moment of bullet impact would only be from that, other factors, including the car accelerating, Jackie moving etc are discounted by the Zapruder film. Only explanation is a shot fired from the front right of the president.

This is my opinion as well. Spot on. People forget that the autopsy shows a large flap skin at the back of his head, along with a large portion of his skull missing toward the top/back.

 

[Hostile]

Okay, I actually sat down last night and looked at the autopsy photos again and the Zarpruder film and some of the stuff posted here.

I believe the entrance wound and the exit wound are the same wound. In other words the bullet hit him on the right side of the head above the ear and ripped away the skull cap area there.

If Oswald had hit him in the back of the head the exit wound would have been on the left side of his head. There would also be an entry wound in the back of his head and there isn't. The only entry wound in the back is the one near the neck and right shoulder, the first shot.

Now, how does this theory affect the "badgemen" or grassy knoll shooter? Same common sense. The exit wound would have been on the back left of his head and there would be a small entry wound on the right side of his head up high. It is impossible for this shot to have been entrance and exit at the same time because of the angle.

I ask the grassy knoll theorists, where is the damage to the left back of his head if a bullet from the right and in front of Kennedy hit him? You can't even claim that the bullet took off the top of his head. The damage is clearly on the right.

Kennedy was already slumping forward and towards Jackie from the first wound. That is clear as day. This gives Oswald the perfect angle for the kill shot to tear off that portion of the skull cap. It makes the shot from the grassy knoll impossible. It absolutely cannot be done. That bullet would have had to hit the limo, Jackie, or the ground near Jean Hill and Mary Moorman. No such evidence exists.

And again I ask you to think forensics. If JFK were surrounded by white walls, based on the Zapruder film where would the blood spray be? In front of him mostly.

I challenge anyone who can shoot to create that blood spray going backwards effect using a melon and have none following the trajectory of the bullet. On top of this the limo was moving forward so the spray backwards from a grassy knoll shooter is even more suspect.

Folks the blood and whatever the white matter is in the film is following the trajectory of the Oswald bullet. That is the point.

Oswald could have been a hired gun, but he was the hired gun and the only hired gun it could have been. At least the only one who hit the man.

 

[CowboyDan]

Hos, have you been to Dealey Plaza?

 

[CowboyDan]

From what I understand, the 3rd bullet was never found. Only fragments in JFK's head. Here's a diagram of where the fragments were found. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/wound1.gif

If the shot came from behind and above (the 6th floor) wouldn't the bullet end up in the car or in one of the people in front of JFK? I'm just thinking of the angles involved.
Whereas, if it were fired from the knoll, it would pass through his head and end up somewhere in the field in the middle of Dealey Plaza, or ricochet to who knows where. Does that make sense?

 

[Aikmaniac]

Hos, have you been to Dealey Plaza?

I think I know where you're going with this.

The grassy knoll to the motorcade was a matter of yards. It's so close and a very easy shot for even an average marksman.

 

[CowboyDan]

I think I know where you're going with this.

The grassy knoll to the motorcade was a matter of yards. It's so close and a very easy shot for even an average marksman.

The angle works for the 3rd shot as well.

 

[arglebargle]

Some interesting bits in the wiki on the rifle, including the fact that when it was delivered for testing after the assassination, the scope was out of whack, and needed shims to target properly. Some interesting evidence found with it though, certainly incriminating towards Oswald.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_rifle


Carcannos were not that well thought of. This is pretty evident in the general section on the Carcanno.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcano

Still, 50 and 80 yards is not really sniper territory.

Don't have the time today to track down all these comments, but there is this interesting bit:

The CBS test is disputed by Michael Griffith, who says: "In the CBS rifle test, not one of the eleven expert shooters scored two hits on the first attempt, and seven of them failed to do so on any attempt. This is especially revealing because the CBS test was the most realistic to date."

This is from the first Wiki post, and linked to from here:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKrussoG.htm

(Number 10 in the comments section)

 

[burmafrd]

He was a Marine. Pretty sure he had some training burm. My gosh.

As to practice, just because there's no evidence doesn't mean he didn't. Also, notherbob mentioned the assassination attempt on Edwin Walker. That was Oswald with the Carcano, and it was months before JFK. It's not like he never fired that gun. These guys who duplicated the feat had never fired a Carcano prior to trying this.

Well so was I. Just because you are a marine does not mean you are a good shot. And he was a piss poor example of a marine.

 

[burmafrd]

The bad shot bs is an Oliver Stone creation. Oswald tested as expert marksman in the marines.

He had to try over a dozen times to make it. Once again does not mean anything.

And you need practice to maintain it. Nothing anywhere has ever been found showing him doing any practice.