Jim Zorn - New Commander HC *Merged*

[Stash]

Dungy and Gruden weren't successful in their first stops?

Check out Fassel's record with the Giants - and then tell me he wasn't successful either. And what happened to Shanahan's name? Or Belichick's? Guess when they don't support your weak theory they fall off too?

[quote-abersonc]And I quoted facts about the Superbowl winners for over 20 years before that. Of course, if it doesn't support your argument it must not be relevant.[/quote]

20 years before your pint-sized man-crush Snyder ever showed up in the NFL?

What does that have to do with whether the guy's made a bad hire?

You're not very good at this, ya know.....

 

[Mansta54]

What's sad is that I have friends in DC who are DIE-HARD Commanders fans. They are the crazy kind that paint themselves and pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars for games and merchandise. Yet, they consistently mock:

1) this hiring (praying that it sets up a Cowher 2009 push)
2) the Snyder era
3) Six Flags over Maryland


Obviously this absersonc dude is not a Cowboys fan, but he DEFINITELY is not a closet Foreskin fan. If he were, he would have already stabbed himself in both pupils out of frustration from Snyder's era, and he subsequently would not be able to read/reply to posts on this website. I think his issue is far more deep-seeded and I would get an infraction for analyzing it.

Trust me, I know cause I live here in Md. just 15mins from DC and the fans here are not happy at all. They hate the Midget here and you're right, dude can't be a Boyz fan. Never, have I seen a Boyz fan support, defend, and take up for anything tied to the Foreskins like he does for the Midget...

 

[AbeBeta]

So now, the exaggeration comes into play as your argument weakens. Garret was hired to work in an offensive capacity and since he could not move laterally as QB coach from the Fins to us, there was speculation as to whether he would be OC or possibly HC - prior to his hiring. Did you get that part? Because he was hired as OC. The fact that you cannot see that Zorn was never even mentioned or considered for the HC position at the time of his hiring is what is silly. So, as I said, Jerry NEVER did what Snyder did, that is correct.

Please -- that's just semantic - you know Jerry was considering the same deal -- he hired JG to be AT LEAST the OC with the potential for hiring him as the coordinator. If you look at the press conference. OMIGOD, he didn't give him an official title along the way. Whoopdeefreakingdee.

Ok, downplay it. No one, and I mean NO ONE has overspent on free agents the way the skins have and the fact you attempt to compare what they have spent in the market to anyone in the NFL over the same period is another clear indicator that you are attempting to defend the indefensible.

Where is the problem with their spending? Have they made bad signings, sure. But the cap hell that folks keep predicting for them has not materialized -- and out of that they've picked up good players like Randy Thomas, Marcus Washington, and Andre Carter - yeah, they spend a ton of money -- but that's what a team with a ton of revenue should be doing.

No, as I said previously, I base that on the teams records the last 5 years. On the field evidence. Also a review of the respective rosters. As I said before, who are the skins young up and comers?

So instead of looking at Snyder's entire tenure, you just carve out the years that favor Dallas the most?

To be fair, Gailey's tenure began one year before Snyder's. Therefore, you have to include that if you want to get a better assessment of what kind "window" the repective owners provide their coaches to succeed. The average coaching window for HC under Snyder averages out to 1.6 years, and that includes Gibbs' four years. Under Jones, 2.3, which also includes the Parcells reign. Admit it or not, that's significant.

A .7 year difference in coaching tenure. Wow. That's amazing. What an argument.

I'm simply amazed at the lengths you go to try to argue Snyder has run this team anything close to run of the mill.

Again, look at the increase in the team's value -- look at the fact that they've actually won playoff games whereas we haven't over that period.

The truth hurts and the truth is that during Snyder's reign, his Commanders have been as good as we have. Yet Snyder is an idiot and Jerry is a genius? Funny logic there.

 

[AbeBeta]

Check out Fassel's record with the Giants - and then tell me he wasn't successful either. And what happened to Shanahan's name? Or Belichick's? Guess when they don't support your weak theory they fall off too?

The point made was that all those retreads didn't have success until they came to their new teams -- and that wasn't the case at all for the two I mentioned.

20 years before your pint-sized man-crush Snyder ever showed up in the NFL?

What does that have to do with whether the guy's made a bad hire?

Maybe you should follow along before jumping in -- Over and over folks in this thread want to carve out a handful of years as evidence without looking at the entire history -- the last 5 years vs. Snyder's tenure in Washington -- the last 11 superbowl winners rather than the last 35 or so.

 

[AbeBeta]

Obviously this absersonc dude is not a Cowboys fan, but he DEFINITELY is not a closet Foreskin fan. If he were, he would have already stabbed himself in both pupils out of frustration from Snyder's era, and he subsequently would not be able to read/reply to posts on this website. I think his issue is far more deep-seeded and I would get an infraction for analyzing it.

First of all -- everyone on this board with a brain know I love the Cowboys.

Second, like most of the drooling mouth breathers posting in this thread, you take the "say Snyder has had some success" angle as equal to saying "Snyder is a genius"

Finally, you seem obsessed with Foreskins -- and use the term closet a bunch.

 

[kmd24]

It's funny that Snyder gets credit for the 1999 playoff win when he bought the team in May 1999, after free agency and the draft, and simply maintained the status quo because it was too late in the game to do anything else. It's hard to imagine that he would have kept Turner had he bought the team earlier in the year, since he fired Norv after the season despite the first playoff appearance by the team since 1992.

The Skins and Cowboys may have similar success during Snyder's tenure, but that's a small accomplishment unless you aspire to mediocrity because the Cowboys were suffering through the worst stretch of JJ's ownership. Cowboys fans will give JJ the benefit of the doubt because he has won three championships and seems to have the team poised to compete for them once again. Snyder has done nothing to earn similar pardon.

BTW, Kudos to Snyder for eschewing the retreads. Unfortunately, he may have ended up with a no-tread because of the way he went about it.

But, on the bright side, the young, up-and-coming, non-retreaded Zorn can still get the AARP rate on road trips, so that should help the Commanders maintain their #2 status behind the Cowboys in the Forbes rankings of most valuable NFL franchises.

 

[Stash]

The point made was that all those retreads didn't have success until they came to their new teams -- and that wasn't the case at all for the two I mentioned.

The point is that they were 'retreads' who had success - the ultimate success in fact.

And while I'm no Fassel fan, the guy took his team to the big game.

Compared to a guy who's never even been a coordinator before.

And someone brought up 'dumb' or 'stupid'. Can remember who......

Maybe you should follow along before jumping in -- Over and over folks in this thread want to carve out a handful of years as evidence without looking at the entire history -- the last 5 years vs. Snyder's tenure in Washington -- the last 11 superbowl winners rather than the last 35 or so.

Actually, you're the guy who's strayed off the mark. The criticism is about a Snyder coaching hire.

It's not about what the guy's done in free agency and it's not about whether Gibbs won him a few playoff games.

It's about his hiring of Zorn.

You're the guy jumping all over history, grasping at straws, trying to support your 'lil buddy'.

And you're the guy failing at it.

 

[Mansta54]

The point is that they were 'retreads' who had success - the ultimate success in fact.

And while I'm no Fassel fan, the guy took his team to the big game.

Compared to a guy who's never even been a coordinator before.

And someone brought up 'dumb' or 'stupid'. Can remember who......




Actually, you're the guy who's strayed off the mark. The criticism is about a Snyder coaching hire.

It's not about what the guy's done in free agency and it's not about whether Gibbs won him a few playoff games.

It's about his hiring of Zorn.

You're the guy jumping all over history, grasping at straws, trying to support your 'lil buddy'.

And you're the guy failing at it.

 

[AbeBeta]

It's not about what the guy's done in free agency and it's not about whether Gibbs won him a few playoff games.

It's about his hiring of Zorn.

You're the guy jumping all over history, grasping at straws, trying to support your 'lil buddy'.

And you're the guy failing at it.

And you are the guy who wants so badly for everything that Snyder does to be stupid that you fail to recognize the one point I've made over and over --
Since Snyder bought the team, they've been as good or better than Dallas. I know truths like that are hard for you to accept but it is there in black and white. You don't want it to be true -- but it is and you just can't handle it.

 

[Stash]

And you are the guy who wants so badly for everything that Snyder does to be stupid that you fail to recognize the one point I've made over and over --
Since Snyder bought the team, they've been as good or better than Dallas. I know truths like that are hard for you to accept but it is there in black and white. You don't want it to be true -- but it is and you just can't handle it.

This'll blow your mind:

Snyder did manage to hire two good coaches through his ownership Schottenheimer and Gibbs. But honestly, how much genius does it take to rehire the greatest coach the franchise has ever known?

It's like Jerry deciding to bring Jimmy back (as if it were possible)! How much genius does that take?

How many of those 'playoff victories' did a true 'Snyder hire' account for?

Let me know.

We can make a list of 'Good Snyder' and 'Bad Snyder' decisions if you want and then maybe you'll see why Napoleon has the reputation that he does.

 

[Hostile]

And you are the guy who wants so badly for everything that Snyder does to be stupid that you fail to recognize the one point I've made over and over --
Since Snyder bought the team, they've been as good or better than Dallas. I know truths like that are hard for you to accept but it is there in black and white. You don't want it to be true -- but it is and you just can't handle it.

I don't agree with that at all. Our record since he has owned the Commanders is 70-74 while theirs is 68-76. Head to head we've won 13 of 18 games.

 

[Mansta54]

This'll blow your mind:

Snyder did manage to hire two good coaches through his ownership Schottenheimer and Gibbs. But honestly, how much genius does it take to rehire the greatest coach the franchise has ever known?

It's like Jerry deciding to bring Jimmy back (as if it were possible)! How much genius does that take?

How many of those 'playoff victories' did a true 'Snyder hire' account for?

Let me know.

We can make a list of 'Good Snyder' and 'Bad Snyder' decisions if you want and then maybe you'll see why Napoleon has the reputation that he does.

You don't even have to make a list, just ask a few Foreskin fans about the Midget. They'll tell you all about him and it won't be pretty..

 

[Mansta54]

I don't agree with that at all. Our record since he has owned the Commanders is 70-74 while theirs is 68-76. Head to head we've won 13 of 18 games.

Ouch!!! Down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier!!!:laugh2:

 

[AbeBeta]

This'll blow your mind:

Snyder did manage to hire two good coaches through his ownership Schottenheimer and Gibbs. But honestly, how much genius does it take to rehire the greatest coach the franchise has ever known?

It's like Jerry deciding to bring Jimmy back (as if it were possible)! How much genius does that take?

How many of those 'playoff victories' did a true 'Snyder hire' account for?

Let me know.

We can make a list of 'Good Snyder' and 'Bad Snyder' decisions if you want and then maybe you'll see why Napoleon has the reputation that he does.

So now you are parsing between "true" Snyder hires and no brainers?

Gibbs wasn't a good move because it wasn't hard to do that?

Hiring Gibbs was likely a far more difficult decision than you assume. Gibbs was a guy who Danny knew would immediately be the one the fans sided with. Relatively new owner brining back a legend, that's a tough move.

In that same regard, should Jerry get no credit for brining in Parcells?

 

[AbeBeta]

I don't agree with that at all. Our record since he has owned the Commanders is 70-74 while theirs is 68-76. Head to head we've won 13 of 18 games.

And in the playoffs.... 2-3 for them 0-4 for us.

Head to head is nice for bragging rights but I think we'd all trade that for a measly playoff win.

 

[Hostile]

And in the playoffs.... 2-3 for them 0-4 for us.

Head to head is nice for bragging rights but I think we'd all trade that for a measly playoff win.

Oh, excuse me. I had no idea 2-3 was that impressive to you.

 

[Mansta54]

Oh, excuse me. I had no idea 2-3 was that impressive to you.

Do you think abersonc is really Vinny, the Midgets sidekick??:laugh2:

 

[AbeBeta]

Oh, excuse me. I had no idea 2-3 was that impressive to you.

2-3 sucks.

But it is a hell of a lot better than 0 and everything.

 

[gbrittain]

And in the playoffs.... 2-3 for them 0-4 for us.

Head to head is nice for bragging rights but I think we'd all trade that for a measly playoff win.

Actually, I could care less about a measly playoff win. Would I have been happy if Dallas beat NY and then blew it against GB? I am not speaking for no one but myself, but I can say a playoff win to me means very little.

The only thing that counts to me is A) Super Bowl wins and then B) how strong of a contending team is Dallas.

I think we have the Commanders on both A and B. I would not trade any of Jerry's 3 Super Bowls for Snyder's big bag of nothing nor would I trade the immediate future of say the next five years for that of the Commanders's next five years.

I am not implying that you are comparing Snyder to Jerry since inception. No matter the scenario until Washington has a clearly more dominant team or multiple Super Bowls he will remain an inferior owner to Jerry. He has some catching up to do.

 

[Hostile]

2-3 sucks.

But it is a hell of a lot better than 0 and everything.

I'll take 13-5 head to head as far more impressive than 2-3 any day. Bottom line you said he's won more. No he hasn't. No even if you add the post season games.

70-78

vs.

70-79

By next season it will look pale in comparison.