Marcus spears on w/norm at 10:30 to talk dysfunction

[zrinkill]

I am no longer a fan of the Cowboys

pathetic ....... go away

 

[Idgit]

Do you really think so? This is the only place I visit on the Internet where it isn't just accepted that Jerry is a huge issue. Here we get the "Dallas is no different than any other team in the league" and "You're hung up on titles" nonsense. Jerry is absolutely an issue and threads (including this one) are spent arguing whether he is or isn't instead of something more interesting. I'm not sure if people just struggle to understand the obvious or they are so caught up in their make believe "insider" stories that they can't open their eyes to reality.

Someone posted a thread here the other day asking "Who do you want as GM?" basically indicating that people couldn't possibly come up with other options better than Jerry.

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/who-do-you-want-as-gm.280598/

Great thread, but it withered and died. Meanwhile, you can get numerous pages debating whether or not Jerry is even an issue.

Do a Google News search on Jerry sometime. Then do one on successful general managers in the league. It is interesting. It is pretty obvious that he's the biggest roadblock to long term franchise success and very heavily involved in things that successful (winning) owners are not. Hire good people and get out of the way. He could learn a lot from Kraft who was a bit of a meddler in his early days as well.

Anyway, interesting interview from Spears. This basically ratified many of my concerns about Jerry.

You're referencing some fairly specific arguments there. I'm not sure those particular topics represent board opinion all that accurately. It sounds more like an old disagreement with Hostile, no?

Honestly, I don't follow the Jerry topics all that closely if I'm not having to moderate the threads, because I find the debates boring for the most part. I'm often accused of being a Jerry supporter, but I actually don't love the guy. He's got his good moments, which in really appreciate, but I'd agree that he's largely a hurdle to the team's success, too. Maybe I just skim over arguments to the contrary.

 

[Szczepanik]

We share a planet with these people.

Truth hurts

 

[Szczepanik]

I want someone to explain to me how Jerry Jones is the reason we have inexplicably choked away games we should of won.

Seattle Game.
Giants playoff game as Crayton drops a key pass.
Losing 3 straight division ending games to fall out of playoff race.

Did Jerry Jones shine the bright lights into Miles' eyes?

Did JJ wax the seattle ball?

Did JJ mess up Romo's back and jinx Orton into throwing a game ending INT?

Did JJ give up a last ditch effort against the Lions in a game we had won easily?

Or how about throwing the INT at the end of the Denver game?

I also remember a few brilliant games we have had in the past few seasons that we were leading by double digits and gave up games.

You Jerry Jones haters are blind to the bigger picture here. He has put together SOLID teams that have all had potential for playoff berths and postseason success.

The fault you can place on Jerry is that he has collected those players, but the players that were collected need to perform.

They don't perform in crucial situations.

It is that simple. We have a chronic history of choking away games we should of won. This goes back the past 8 seasons.

It isn't that Jerry hasn't put together a good enough team, or that JJ gets in his own way.

I admit he does some harm to the team and steps on his own feet sometimes but the fact of the matter is that the team doesn't punch it through for whatever reason it may be.

 

[Szczepanik]

We share a planet with these people.

Also, with someone with as many posts as you do have it is quite a shame that you result to personal insults when you disagree with someone's opinion. Classy.

 

[junk]

You're referencing some fairly specific arguments there. I'm not sure those particular topics represent board opinion all that accurately. It sounds more like an old disagreement with Hostile, no?

Honestly, I don't follow the Jerry topics all that closely if I'm not having to moderate the threads, because I find the debates boring for the most part. I'm often accused of being a Jerry supporter, but I actually don't love the guy. He's got his good moments, which in really appreciate, but I'd agree that he's largely a hurdle to the team's success, too. Maybe I just skim over arguments to the contrary.

See the last couple posts in this thread

 

[Tawney88]

I want someone to explain to me how Jerry Jones is the reason we have inexplicably choked away games we should of won.

Seattle Game.
Giants playoff game as Crayton drops a key pass.
Losing 3 straight division ending games to fall out of playoff race.

Did Jerry Jones shine the bright lights into Miles' eyes?

Did JJ wax the seattle ball?

Did JJ mess up Romo's back and jinx Orton into throwing a game ending INT?

Did JJ give up a last ditch effort against the Lions in a game we had won easily?

Or how about throwing the INT at the end of the Denver game?

I also remember a few brilliant games we have had in the past few seasons that we were leading by double digits and gave up games.

You Jerry Jones haters are blind to the bigger picture here. He has put together SOLID teams that have all had potential for playoff berths and postseason success.

The fault you can place on Jerry is that he has collected those players, but the players that were collected need to perform.

They don't perform in crucial situations.

It is that simple. We have a chronic history of choking away games we should of won. This goes back the past 8 seasons.

It isn't that Jerry hasn't put together a good enough team, or that JJ gets in his own way.

I admit he does some harm to the team and steps on his own feet sometimes but the fact of the matter is that the team doesn't punch it through for whatever reason it may be.

Who drafted, signed, traded or extended the players? Who ignored the defensive line this last draft because "it's a position big strength"? Who allows his team to be woefully low in quality depth along both lines? Who has for years ignored the offensive line? Who hired the coaches? Who forces assistants onto his head coaches? Who has an open door policy with his players undermining his staff?

Jerry Jones.

There is more but hopefully you get the picture. If you don't understand Jerry is the problem with this organization than I don't know what to tell you. He is the disease everything you mentioned is a symptom.

 

[peplaw06]

You're referencing some fairly specific arguments there. I'm not sure those particular topics represent board opinion all that accurately. It sounds more like an old disagreement with Hostile, no?

Honestly, I don't follow the Jerry topics all that closely if I'm not having to moderate the threads, because I find the debates boring for the most part. I'm often accused of being a Jerry supporter, but I actually don't love the guy. He's got his good moments, which in really appreciate, but I'd agree that he's largely a hurdle to the team's success, too. Maybe I just skim over arguments to the contrary.

Why are debates about Jerry's influence (control) over this team boring?

 

[Idgit]

Why are debates about Jerry's influence (control) over this team boring?

They wouldn't be, if they were debates. Usually, it's just complaining about things that won't change, or a series of escalating accusations to try to demonstrate who hates Jerry most. It's hard to debate how much somebody wants to punch Jerry in the face.

 

[peplaw06]

Somehow I think if there were no debate from anyone about wanting to punch Jerry in the face, the threads either wouldn't exist or they would be short-lived. Threads are fed by debate. If they exist and thrive, it's because there is debate.

And the opinion that things will never change shouldn't preclude discussion.

 

[Idgit]

Somehow I think if there were no debate from anyone about wanting to punch Jerry in the face, the threads either wouldn't exist or they would be short-lived. Threads are fed by debate. If they exist and thrive, it's because there is debate.

And the opinion that things will never change shouldn't preclude discussion.

Threads exist for lots of reasons. Emotions carry many a thread.

And my take that it's not going to change doesn't preclude discussion. It mostly precludes my participating in a discussion I typically find fruitless. Similarly, if this were a scientific forum, I'd choose not to engage much in the threads complaining about Gravity. I mean, we all know Gravity is a drunk, and who doesn't want to pop him in the face? But how many times can you say that before you start to get bored with hearing yourself say it? Apparently, hundreds of times works for some. For me, saying it three or four times is probably enough.

 

[peplaw06]

It's clear there have been attempts to preclude this discussion.

 

[Idgit]

It's clear there have been attempts to preclude this discussion.

Ok. Not by me, to the best of my knowledge. Unless you're referring to my suggestions that beating one's head against a wall seems pointless.

 

[Szczepanik]

Who drafted, signed, traded or extended the players? Who ignored the defensive line this last draft because "it's a position big strength"? Who allows his team to be woefully low in quality depth along both lines? Who has for years ignored the offensive line? Who hired the coaches? Who forces assistants onto his head coaches? Who has an open door policy with his players undermining his staff?

Jerry Jones.

There is more but hopefully you get the picture. If you don't understand Jerry is the problem with this organization than I don't know what to tell you. He is the disease everything you mentioned is a symptom.

The players that he has signed have performed very well for the most part in most games. With the exceptions of choking in crucial moments.

Like I said he gets in his own way with the culture of the team.
With that being said, he is not the sole reason for the lack for success which is the reason for the post.

It wasn't Jerry's fault that the last 2 seasons our defense was beyond decimated.

Going into the year we had a quite a rock solid lineup of players.

I will not blame the defense upon Jerry except for the Rob Ryan firing.

If the defense holds up this past season we would of had 3 more wins easily. Sorry but it is true, and then everyone wouldn't be bashing Jerry nearly as much.

 

[TheDude]

There is a lot of hate towards Jerry in this thread, and to be honest, I don't hate the man, but I also don't like him at the same time, if that makes sense.

However...and this is going to get me nailed big time, but....it's refreshing to note that the same posters that are bagging on Jerry for the following are in most cases the same ones that blame Romo for all these losses. Hate just to hate. Cowboys fans, so they say.

Jerry was not responsible for the Chiefs to beat the Cowboys by one point.

Jerry was not on the field when the Chargers beat the Cowboys.

Jerry did not allow the Romo Int against the Broncos.

Jerry did contribute to the defense that let the QB from the Lions to jump over the line for the winning TD.

Jerry was not on the field while the Saints kicked some Cowboy butt.

Jerry did not allow he Bears to kick the crap out of the Cowboys. The players need to do their jobs too.

Jerry was not responsible for the Packers beating the Boyz by one point.

Jerry was not on defense when the eagles won the division.

Jerry did not allow the defense to get injuries from hell, or allow any other thing that happens ON THE FIELD during a game.

Yes, Jerry hired the coaches and players. But, on the flip side of the coin, the players have to execute. If some posters would really just realize just how many games the Cowboys lost ON THEIR OWN....along with the stupid mistakes by the coaches, this team could have been better than 8-8.

If Jerry would have not been alive last season and the team finished as they did, and you posters that blame all the losses on Jerry or Romo, now what?

Who is the next on the list of hating YOUR team, The Dallas Cowboys?

Jerry has responsibility in what players are out there getting there butt kicked. He and his son manage personnel. Anyone who throws Jeff Heath out there as starting safety and relies on Rat to man the 3-tech after not playing in 2 years is culpable for for part of the @$$ beatings

You can throw the Cheerleaders out there and blame them for not "executing", but simple core truth is, the talent isn't there - and hasnt been

 

[Rockport]

Jerry Jones has turned this organization into a dysfunctional one. Spears is right on. This once proud franchise is now a joke to the rest of the NFL. Only unobjective blind homers can't see this.

 

[TheDude]

I want someone to explain to me how Jerry Jones is the reason we have inexplicably choked away games we should of won.

Seattle Game.
Giants playoff game as Crayton drops a key pass.
Losing 3 straight division ending games to fall out of playoff race.

Did Jerry Jones shine the bright lights into Miles' eyes?

Did JJ wax the seattle ball?

Did JJ mess up Romo's back and jinx Orton into throwing a game ending INT?

Did JJ give up a last ditch effort against the Lions in a game we had won easily?

Or how about throwing the INT at the end of the Denver game?

I also remember a few brilliant games we have had in the past few seasons that we were leading by double digits and gave up games.

You Jerry Jones haters are blind to the bigger picture here. He has put together SOLID teams that have all had potential for playoff berths and postseason success.

The fault you can place on Jerry is that he has collected those players, but the players that were collected need to perform.

They don't perform in crucial situations.

It is that simple. We have a chronic history of choking away games we should of won. This goes back the past 8 seasons.

It isn't that Jerry hasn't put together a good enough team, or that JJ gets in his own way.

I admit he does some harm to the team and steps on his own feet sometimes but the fact of the matter is that the team doesn't punch it through for whatever reason it may be.

You cant take a game (Denver, Lions) or play (Seattle, Int) and assess the whole. But that is EXACTLY what JJ does. The problem is that Dallas is not talented enough THROUGHOUT the roster. They have some great players and many scrubs. There are draft picks that are basically wasted (I. Stanback, Brewster, etc) and FA moves (Trading a 1 and a 3 for RW- WR) that have major ramifications down the road.

This team plays in an inordinate amount of games that come down to the last possession. I think 80% of that is talent and 20% is attitude. There are great top heavy players and others who wouldnt start for any team. You cannot hide Jeff Heath from decent NFL QBs all game WHILE relying on a super thin (aging) DL with J Ratliff. You can't throw Phil Costa out there and expect him to hold up continuously. Valuing CBs as the most important defensive pieces show a bad understanding of the game. Even Richard Sherman confirmed that their front seven was the key to their success. 4 man pressure is paramount to an effective defense

The problem is JJ is reactive rather than proactive. It took the Minnesota playoff game to acknowledge the OLine was a problem. Then they cut veterans use a #1 on a LT and supplant the rest with Phil Costa, Nate Livings, Berny and Free. 2 OGs that are backups at best. Then you spend another #1 on a C.

So, OK they addressed the Oline out of need rather than proper planning. So you completely ignore the DL WHILE changing schemes (another reactive vs proactive decision or lack of conviction) and now you will get a draft that has to reach for DLine in order to hope it pans out. Meanwhile, you may lose out on a BPA QB, Safety, OL, LB, etc.

This isn't about have Pro-bowlers at every position, but any object is only as strong as its weakest link. There are way too many structurally weak links, the evaluation of future weak links is completely off the radar. Hence you get CJ putting up 300 yds, GB coming back from 24pts,

Romo, Dez, Lee, etc can win you some games. But the object is to build a team that can conrol a game and not rely on idiosynchratic talents of a few EVERY game. When Russell WIlson or Kap is off, the defense or running game compensates. Dallas is built like the Manning Colts teams. If Manning is off, gameover. That team was a 12-13 win team with him and a 1 win team without him. Romo is no Manning so we are a 8-11 win team with him and a 3-5 win team without him. Add on top of that, I think Garrett is useless. He didn't deserve the job and learning on the job with a vet-core team is not a recipe for success.

When you act like you are only 1 piece away, you overspend for that piece. Then it doesn't pan out, everyone is one year older and eroding skills begin to become more noticeable. You end up cap strapped

 

[peplaw06]

Ok. Not by me, to the best of my knowledge. Unless you're referring to my suggestions that beating one's head against a wall seems pointless.

I didn't say by you... But I like how everyone passes the buck here.

 

[Szczepanik]

You cant take a game (Denver, Lions) or play (Seattle, Int) and assess the whole. But that is EXACTLY what JJ does. The problem is that Dallas is not talented enough THROUGHOUT the roster. They have some great players and many scrubs. There are draft picks that are basically wasted (I. Stanback, Brewster, etc) and FA moves (Trading a 1 and a 3 for RW- WR) that have major ramifications down the road.

This team plays in an inordinate amount of games that come down to the last possession. I think 80% of that is talent and 20% is attitude. There are great top heavy players and others who wouldnt start for any team. You cannot hide Jeff Heath from decent NFL QBs all game WHILE relying on a super thin (aging) DL with J Ratliff. You can't throw Phil Costa out there and expect him to hold up continuously. Valuing CBs as the most important defensive pieces show a bad understanding of the game. Even Richard Sherman confirmed that their front seven was the key to their success. 4 man pressure is paramount to an effective defense

The problem is JJ is reactive rather than proactive. It took the Minnesota playoff game to acknowledge the OLine was a problem. Then they cut veterans use a #1 on a LT and supplant the rest with Phil Costa, Nate Livings, Berny and Free. 2 OGs that are backups at best. Then you spend another #1 on a C.

So, OK they addressed the Oline out of need rather than proper planning. So you completely ignore the DL WHILE changing schemes (another reactive vs proactive decision or lack of conviction) and now you will get a draft that has to reach for DLine in order to hope it pans out. Meanwhile, you may lose out on a BPA QB, Safety, OL, LB, etc.

This isn't about have Pro-bowlers at every position, but any object is only as strong as its weakest link. There are way too many structurally weak links, the evaluation of future weak links is completely off the radar. Hence you get CJ putting up 300 yds, GB coming back from 24pts,

Romo, Dez, Lee, etc can win you some games. But the object is to build a team that can conrol a game and not rely on idiosynchratic talents of a few EVERY game. When Russell WIlson or Kap is off, the defense or running game compensates. Dallas is built like the Manning Colts teams. If Manning is off, gameover. That team was a 12-13 win team with him and a 1 win team without him. Romo is no Manning so we are a 8-11 win team with him and a 3-5 win team without him. Add on top of that, I think Garrett is useless. He didn't deserve the job and learning on the job with a vet-core team is not a recipe for success.

When you act like you are only 1 piece away, you overspend for that piece. Then it doesn't pan out, everyone is one year older and eroding skills begin to become more noticeable. You end up cap strapped

While this is true, many other teams that have competed in the playoffs were also a product of high offensive firepower and little to no defense.

I think JJ bought into what the league was trying to do and attempted to mimic it, resulting in our subpar DL.

At the start of the season though we did have a pretty solid DL setup.

Ratliff/Spencer/Bass/Crawford were all supposed to play...

Now the Jeff Heath thing baffles me, as well as BW getting playing time.

But in the end, I think we were on the wrong end of a few coin tosses that would of made or broken us. The year we lost to the Vikes, I believed that we would of beaten most of the rest of those playoff teams.

 

[Idgit]

I didn't say by you... But I like how everyone passes the buck here.

Hey, now. I hold my bucks. I'm not responsible for whatever debate you might have had with another poster. That's not my buck to hang onto.

I think Jerry's loyalty is a good quality. I think his business acumen is beyond question. I like how he spends money on the roster. I love stories like him giving up his corporate plane to Frank Luksa so he could see his dying mother. I like the story of Jerry telling a young lady who felt she was getting taken advantage of re: season ticket pricing 'honey, if I were [taking advantage of you], you'd know it." In short, he's a character, and he's not without his charm and his good points.

But, overall, I think he's a hurdle the team has to work around, and I think he's limiting our organization right now. I think his open door policy for the players is not healthy. I think his willingness to gamble hurts in a league where the key is to avoid mistakes and to limit risks.