Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[TheCount]

the police were told by Zimmerman that he was attacked, which is substantially different then "losing a fight"

... why wouldn't he say that? I don't think a cop is under any obligation to take the story of the only living combatant as gospel. A statement is just that, it doesn't mean you don't investigate and follow procedure.

God forbid I get killed and the cops take the word of the person that killed me at face value.

Either way, getting "attacked" still doesn't justify murder, not alone.

 

[JonJon]

... why wouldn't he say that? I don't think a cop is under any obligation to take the story of the only living combatant as gospel. A statement is just that, it doesn't mean you don't investigate and follow procedure.

God forbid I get killed and the cops take the word of the person that killed me at face value.

Exactly right. I have a "squeaky clean" record, never been arrested, never been detained, never been suspended from school, never even been drunk or high, but that still doesn't mean that a thorough investigation shouldn't be done if I kill someone and claim self defense. Having a clean record doesn't give me a pass, and neither should one be given to Zimmerman.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

... why wouldn't he say that? I don't think a cop is under any obligation to take the story of the only living combatant as gospel. A statement is just that, it doesn't mean you don't investigate and follow procedure.

God forbid I get killed and the cops take the word of the person that killed me at face value.

Either way, getting "attacked" still doesn't justify murder, not alone.

I agree completely that the police were not perfect.

on scene Zimmerman told police that he cried for help, and he was bleeding. Police were given testimony that someone cried for help, and one women even initially claimed it was the teen crying for help. Now we have 911 reports showing someone was pleading for help.

the biggest question I have, is how convinced was the one witness who initially said the teen was crying for help? If she is remaining adamant about it, I am not aware of it.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Some say that Zimmerman could get off on the "Stand your Ground" Law in Florida. If true than what's to stop others from using the law as a free pass to murder?

Just claim that someone you don't like or want to kill is a threat, make sure that there are no witnesses, kill that person and claim self defense. Seems like the law sets up people to murder and to try and use the states law to get away with it.


Law needs to be tweaked if you can follow a person, start a confrontation, yet claim self defense. Guess that Trayvon had no rights to "Stand his ground" against someone who was following him and started a confrontation in the minds of the SPD and the state of Florida.

seriously if someone really had an intent to murder, than all they have to do is use the state law to get off easily since Zimmerman wasn't even arrested?

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

unfortunately, yes. the survivor had visible signs of being attacked (bloody nose, scrape on back of head). unless someone can appear as a witness, probably cause certainly exists that he acted in self defense.

So you can follow someone and provoke them into a fight and just shot them and easily claim Self Defense?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

So you can follow someone and provoke them into a fight and just shot them and easily claim Self Defense?

sigh. you keep making the same basic arguments.

so again, any evidence of provoking a fight?

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

sigh. you keep making the same basic arguments.

so again, any evidence of provoking a fight?

From the 911 calls, it sounds like a young man screaming for help. DOesn't sound like Zimmerman as he was calm through out the 911 calls. IMO Trayvon was screaming for help and it sounds like someone who is scared and afraid of their life.


So what is the evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman out of aggression (If he did attack) and not fear for his life? Would the law not stand for the Kid if he felt threatened by someone approaching him or only Zimmerman?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

From the 911 calls, it sounds like a young man screaming for help. DOesn't sound like Zimmerman as he was calm through out the 911 calls. IMO Trayvon was screaming for help and it sounds like someone who is scared and afraid of their life.


So what is the evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman out of aggression (If he did attack) and not fear for his life? Would the law not stand for the Kid if he felt threatened by someone approaching him or only Zimmerman?

Zimmerman claimed he was screaming for help and pondered why nobody would help him. that is in the initial report.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Zimmerman claimed he was screaming for help and pondered why nobody would help him. that is in the initial report.

Of course I can't know for sure but from the tapes I heard it sounds like a Kid/Teen Boy screaming for help and doesn't sound like Zimmerman's voice fromt he 911 calls I have heard.

Zimmerman could have known that it was Trayvon screaming and said that it was him that was screaming to cover his tracks. It concerns me that you can shot someone in FL claim Self Defense and not be arrested at least.

It's like the SPD isn't even considering that Zimmerman may not have killed out of Self Defense. No Arrest at all? Not even letting the case on to trail and letting a Jury use the FL law to decide if it was Self Defense?


Can someone really get into a fist fight, pull a gun and shoot someone and claim it was Self Defense and not be arrested or properly investigated?


Now what's to stop someone in FL or any other state with the same law from just shooting someone and claiming Self Defense, if there are no other witnesses? People with the intent to kill could provoke a confrontation/fight and get roughed up and kill a person and get off easily?

 

[VietCowboy]

Can someone really get into a fist fight, pull a gun and shoot someone and claim it was Self Defense and not be arrested or properly investigated?

Yes. There's a case right now in Florida where a judge is considering a man who brought a gun to a park b/c some kid was skateboarding on a basketball court. Another man with his 8 year old daughter sees this man who has his gun clearly visible, and asks the man to leave. Somehow push comes to shove and they FIST fight, and the man with the gun shoots the second man dead.

I read that since this law has gone in the books, the self-defense has tripled each year (to about 100) and apparently most of them have been successful.

Sickening. I do not want to go to Florida if that is the case.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Yes. There's a case right now in Florida where a judge is considering a man who brought a gun to a park b/c some kid was skateboarding on a basketball court. Another man with his 8 year old daughter sees this man who has his gun clearly visible, and asks the man to leave. Somehow push comes to shove and they FIST fight, and the man with the gun shoots the second man dead.

I read that since this law has gone in the books, the self-defense has tripled each year (to about 100) and apparently most of them have been successful.

Sickening. I do not want to go to Florida if that is the case.

Yeah concerning to know that all a person might have to do to get away with murder is claim Self Defense. I thought that the burden was suppose to be on the killer to prove Self Defense and not the other way around.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Makes you wonder how many times something like this happens and no one notices.

More than you want to know.

 

[Hoofbite]

sigh. you keep making the same basic arguments.

so again, any evidence of provoking a fight?

Come on, this is just borderline BS and you know it.

He chased the kid down and according to the girlfriend he basically started interrogating him.

You're asking for something that nobody can even realistically provide and really it doesn't matter.

If you instill fear into someone and they run off, following them will ALWAYS be taken as a sign of aggression by the fleeing party. That in itself is provoking enough to expect someone to defend themselves from your advances and questioning.

The guy clearly was the catalyst for whatever occurred prior to the actual shooting. Any sane person would view an unknown and unidentifiable person who is chasing them without reason as a legitimate threat.

Let's cut the BS and quit asking for specifics on how the physical altercation may have occurred when it's plain as day that the guy had zero authority to, and was directed not to, pursue the kid.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Yeah concerning to know that all a person might have to do to get away with murder is claim Self Defense. I thought that the burden was suppose to be on the killer to prove Self Defense and not the other way around.

No, the defendant never has to prove anything. He has to lead evidence of self defence, but all he really is doing is trying to raise a reasonable doubt that he didn't commit murder. The Prosecution (or Crown in Canada) always has the burden of proving the crime.

 

[Cythim]

sigh. you keep making the same basic arguments.

so again, any evidence of provoking a fight?

He was harassing Trayvon by following and chasing him. Trayvon responded by trying to get away and when that failed he faced his harasser.

 

[Wimbo]

Come on, this is just borderline BS and you know it.

He chased the kid down and according to the girlfriend he basically started interrogating him.

You're asking for something that nobody can even realistically provide and really it doesn't matter.

If you instill fear into someone and they run off, following them will ALWAYS be taken as a sign of aggression by the fleeing party. That in itself is provoking enough to expect someone to defend themselves from your advances and questioning.

The guy clearly was the catalyst for whatever occurred prior to the actual shooting. Any sane person would view an unknown and unidentifiable person who is chasing them without reason as a legitimate threat.

Let's cut the BS and quit asking for specifics on how the physical altercation may have occurred when it's plain as day that the guy had zero authority to, and was directed not to, pursue the kid.

That is pretty much how I see it.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Yes. There's a case right now in Florida where a judge is considering a man who brought a gun to a park b/c some kid was skateboarding on a basketball court. Another man with his 8 year old daughter sees this man who has his gun clearly visible, and asks the man to leave. Somehow push comes to shove and they FIST fight, and the man with the gun shoots the second man dead.

I read that since this law has gone in the books, the self-defense has tripled each year (to about 100) and apparently most of them have been successful.

Sickening. I do not want to go to Florida if that is the case.

Florida is what you get when you give Statehood to a trailer park.

 

[Wimbo]

Florida is what you get when you give Statehood to a trailer park.

Uncalled for. Throwing a whole state in the fire due to the actions of one idiot is just not right. Besides... you live in New York, so you will have to move to Florida one day. It's the law. No sense making enemies already.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Uncalled for. Throwing a whole state in the fire due to the actions of one idiot is just not right. Besides... you live in New York, so you will have to move to Florida one day. It's the law. No sense making enemies already.

rofl, you live in Florida? btw, I live in Connecticut and work in NYC. I'm a native Texan of 30+ years.

The Florida is what you get when you give statehood to a trailer park is a joke I heard at least 20 years ago. :laugh2:

Edit: I make enemies all the time! Though, I didn't think you would be one. I like you.

 

[Bonecrusher#31]

Come on, this is just borderline BS and you know it.

He chased the kid down and according to the girlfriend he basically started interrogating him.

You're asking for something that nobody can even realistically provide and really it doesn't matter.

If you instill fear into someone and they run off, following them will ALWAYS be taken as a sign of aggression by the fleeing party. That in itself is provoking enough to expect someone to defend themselves from your advances and questioning.

The guy clearly was the catalyst for whatever occurred prior to the actual shooting. Any sane person would view an unknown and unidentifiable person who is chasing them without reason as a legitimate threat.

Let's cut the BS and quit asking for specifics on how the physical altercation may have occurred when it's plain as day that the guy had zero authority to, and was directed not to, pursue the kid.