Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[DFWJC]

They had a 3-2 vote of no confidence on the chief, so that was probably pressure for him to step down.

In regards to Zimmerman and the truck, I don't know about you, but I have NEVER gotten OUT of my vehicle in order to read a street sign, let alone in my own neighborhood. I can see out the car windows just fine.

Yeah, the BS in this story is overwhelming.

I think of my young son and how he means the whole world to me.....
if that was my kid that got killed, well, I can't even imagine the emotions.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

NO matter what Zimmerman claims if that is Trayvon's voice screaming for help and they can prove that it;s his voice GZ will go down for first or Second degree murder no question.

You aren't defending yourself if you shoot someone who's begging and screaming in fear for their life. If it wsa Trayvon screaming for help maybe Zimmerman panicked and shot him to shut him up. But it takes one cold,hearthless person just to kill someone as they are begging for their life.


So I don't see how anyone could still defend Zimmerman if the voice is proven to be Trayvon's.

 

[vta]

Yeah, the BS in this story is overwhelming.

I think of my young son and how he means the whole world to me.....
if that was my kid that got killed, well, I can't even imagine the emotions.

And with all the legal and racial arguments cast aside you're left with a family who's dealing with just that. Regardless of Zimmerman's story, right now he's responsible for the worst thing they'll probably ever experienced; he owes those people an answer.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

And with all the legal and racial arguments cast aside you're left with a family who's dealing with just that. Regardless of Zimmerman's story, right now he's responsible for the worst thing they'll probably ever experienced; he owes those people an answer.

Yes he does.

 

[iceberg]

Yes he does.

so far all i see is a kid trying to justify what happened and it simply cannot be.

he *** up. now he needs to man up.

 

[Noryb]

I don't know if it's been mentioned or not but Trayvon's case is bringing a lot of attention to another shooting death in Florida.

The 69-year-old school bus driver apparently has a very tight sphincter when it comes to kids skateboarding. So Dooley stuck a gun in his pants and went out to confront the nefarious 14-year-old.

David defended the kid, seeing as how he wasn't hurting anyone. Yet Dooley, surely bursting with sphincterism by this point, started arguing with David. When it finally ended, Dooley started to leave. But that's when David noticed the gun sticking out of his waist.

David yelled after him about the gun. Dooley turned around and pulled it from his pants. Seeing that there was now a man with a gun and two kids close by, David lunged for the weapon. The two men struggled and fell to the ground. Dooley pulled the trigger, striking David in the chest and killing him.

But for reasons unknown, it would take police two days to arrest Dooley, and only after an outcry from residents. And when they finally did pinch him, they only charged him with manslaughter.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/09/david_james_air_force_veteran.php

Dooley has invoked the "Stand Your Ground" law in his defense and experts believe he has a chance to get off. Maybe Florida is just *** backwards. I'm starting to think both he and Zimmerman will walk.

He says he was being attacked and held down that day. He wants to invoke the Stand Your Ground law for his defense in this case, since he claims he feared for his life.

A judge will now consider that request after a hearing in court where Danielle told her side of the story, what she saw and what she heard.

This guy was shot dead in front of his 8 year old daughter.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

so far all i see is a kid trying to justify what happened and it simply cannot be.

he *** up. now he needs to man up.

If he did I think it could be a manslaughter case if they play it right. He should be charged with murder though.

 

[speedkilz88]

I don't know if it's been mentioned or not but Trayvon's case is bringing a lot of attention to another shooting death in Florida.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/09/david_james_air_force_veteran.php

Dooley has invoked the "Stand Your Ground" law in his defense and experts believe he has a chance to get off. Maybe Florida is just *** backwards. I'm starting to think both he and Zimmerman will walk.


This guy was shot dead in front of his 8 year old daughter.

He can't use "stand your ground" as a defense. It's specific that you can't be the aggressor that caused the incident and he definitely was the one pursuing from the beginning.

 

[Hoofbite]

He can't use "stand your ground" as a defense. It's specific that you can't be the aggressor that caused the incident and he definitely was the one pursuing from the beginning.

It's a stupid law in the first place. It shouldn't even be on the books.

What kind of society actually condones a fight to the death if other available options are present?

I can't believe nobody ever foresaw the abuse potential of such a law. It's nothing short of a free pass to kill because the dead tell no tales and what is considered "fear for one's life" is entirely subjective.

 

[Randy White]

entire case will come down to intent and to what degree of intent the prosecution can prove. Here's what I'm talking about:

The 2010 Florida Statutes(including Special Session A)

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;


http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html

That's, basically, what's known as the " stand your ground law ". The second provision in this title refers to s.776.013. which is about home invasion and clearly does not apply in this situation.


Now, here's a " plausible " dilema that the Sanford police department may have been facing, and it has nothing to do with the " stand your ground law " by itself since it also applies to home invasion and defense of others:

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE View Entire Chapter

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html

Basically, according to that statue, it makes it a judgement call by the police to make an arrest or not. So the " stand your ground law " is not where the problem resides instead it does with that particular underlined subsection.


Having said that, my opinion is this: The Sanford police officers who first responded to the call, and subsequently the department as a whole, AT BEST, acted timidly and used too much caution, possibly afraid of civil litigation. At worst ? Well, their reputation speaks for itself.

Generally speaking most police officers and departments act more decisive, right down " aggressive " in some instances, in cases similar to this because they know that most of the time the courts are sympathetic to them, especially in this state. I suspect in most other states as well. They would arrest this guy if for no other reason that he not only took it upon himself to do a job HE was NOT trained to do, like police officers are, but refused a direct order ( dispatcher ) in the process, both HUGE no-no's to cops.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

refused a direct order ( dispatcher ) in the process, both HUGE no-no's to cops.

:bang2:

what direct order?

Lee, the police chief, said in a statement that the police dispatcher's "suggestion" to Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin "is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmermann would be required to follow."

can we finally put that piece of idiocy to bed?

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I don't know if it's been mentioned or not but Trayvon's case is bringing a lot of attention to another shooting death in Florida.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/09/david_james_air_force_veteran.php

Dooley has invoked the "Stand Your Ground" law in his defense and experts believe he has a chance to get off. Maybe Florida is just *** backwards. I'm starting to think both he and Zimmerman will walk.


This guy was shot dead in front of his 8 year old daughter.

FL can change it's slogan to the "Getting away with Cold-Blooded Murder State" of this happens.

Sense it's doesn't matter down there if the one with the gun starts the fight or confrontation. They can provoke a fight or struggle and then shot an unarmed person and claim Self Defense.

Who wants to live in a state where the victims are abused by this law and their killers get away? They did even think about the fact that the ones who could actually use the "Stand your Ground" are the ones dead sense the shooters were the ones who started the confrontations and made the victims feel like they were in some kind of danger.


Getting punched in the face now is suddenly a reason to fear for your life? Because Zimmerman so called had a bloody nose.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

:bang2:

what direct order?



can we finally put that piece of idiocy to bed?

Whether or not it's Lawful it still shows that GZ followed and stalked the Kid and that Trayvon saw this strange man following him and may have fought back. Maybe you think nothing of someone strange following you.


But a lot of people would run or fight back in that situation. I don't see how this changes the fact that the SPD handled this case badly or that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon in Cold Blood.


If that is Trayvon's voice on the 911 calls than GZ will go down because how can you claim Self Defense against someone screaming out in terror and fear for their life? If it is Trayvon's voice it will prove that he was the one fearing for his life and had the rights to the "Stand your ground" law.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Whether or not it's Lawful it still shows that GZ followed and stalked the Kid and that Trayvon saw this strange man following him and may have fought back. Maybe you think nothing of someone strange following you.

if following someone is cause to start an attack, then it became a lot more dangerous to be a police detective.

the fact that he initially followed Trayvor has no bearing on if he is guilty of murder.

the use of the term stalking indicates you are unable to speak on this subject honestly.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Since all of this has become such a big story, I am surprised someone hasn't followed Zimmerman around, shot him dead, then claimed it was in self defense.

I say that sarcastically but I would not be shocked if it did happen.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

if following someone is cause to start an attack, then it became a lot more dangerous to be a police detective.

the fact that he initially followed Trayvor has no bearing on if he is guilty of murder.

the use of the term stalking indicates you are unable to speak on this subject honestly.

There is a difference between someone in an uniform or badge is following a person and ID's themselves as a Cop When and it they confront the person they are following, because at least then the person who is being followed has no reasons to be in fear of his life from a cop.


A stranger following someone is different because as I said a Lot of people would be on Guard. Alert, Afraid wondering why they are being stocked in followed and this leads to fighting back if cornered or running away.

Trayvon did try to avoid Zimmerman because GZ admitted that Trayvon as running and still went after him. Why would anyone keep going towards and after someone they felt threatened by?

In the case of "Self Defense" I do think that it matters if you pursue someone and provoke that person into believing that you could hurt or kill them.


What's not Honest about the term? I don't see GZ's defenders being "Honest" about the fact that Trayvon may have feared for his life and in doing so fought back when confronted and cornered. They think that GZ gas the right to treat him like a criminal, confront him like Trayvon owes him the answer to why he was in the Neighborhood.

 

[Randy White]

what direct order? can we finally put that piece of idiocy to bed?

Dude, seriously, you've proven from the begining of this thread that you don't have a single of clue of what you're talking about. Your idiology is meaningless in cases like this and it's basically generalized, ambiguous crap that's borderline rambling. Most, if not all, of what you've stated is not based on reality.

Hell, Ted Kaczynski made more sense then you have for the past 2 weeks.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Dude, seriously, you've proven from the begining of this thread that you don't have a single of clue of what you're talking about. Your idiology is meaningless in cases like this and it's basically generalized, ambiguous crap that's borderline rambling. Most, i fnot all, of what you've stated is not based on reality.

Hell, Ted Kaczynski made more sense then you have for the past 2 weeks.

He just likes to argue even when he *knows* he is wrong. Some people derive enjoyment out of it.

 

[joseephuss]

:bang2:

what direct order?



can we finally put that piece of idiocy to bed?

I don't think it puts it to bed. The idiocy is only if someone thinks the police gave him a direct order, which did not happen. They did however suggest he did not need to follow the kid. That does mean something. It may not mean everything and means more than nothing. Something in the middle, which does not put it to bed.

if following someone is cause to start an attack, then it became a lot more dangerous to be a police detective.

the fact that he initially followed Trayvor has no bearing on if he is guilty of murder.

the use of the term stalking indicates you are unable to speak on this subject honestly.

Zimmerman wasn't a police detective, so I don't see how you can jump to that conclusion.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Dude, seriously, you've proven from the begining of this thread that you don't have a single of clue of what you're talking about. Your idiology is meaningless in cases like this and it's basically generalized, ambiguous crap that's borderline rambling. Most, if not all, of what you've stated is not based on reality.

Hell, Ted Kaczynski made more sense then you have for the past 2 weeks.

I quoted the police chief, and you people still hang on to wrong facts. it is really amazing how you all can ignore facts and allow emotion to lead you