Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[iceberg]

Hispanic...whatever

My point is people are in a tizzy over this. Their outrage is very selective. I get more upset about the huge volume of murders. I get more pissed about the lack of humanity displayed every day across our great country.

The usual race mongers are out their using this to their advantage. I wish people would get just upset at the kid shot in a drive by that was doing nothing other than walking down the street. People ignore the local nightly news. I admit I stopped watching because it was one horror story after another. I just find it odd that people are galvanised by this incident, but the daily murders and crimes that occur in every major city go largely uncared about.

I have a CC license. I have been involved in one incident. I did not shoot anyone, but I was charged and cleared. I guess I have a different perspective because of that than some others may have.

I am willing to let the process run it's course. People here are ready to convict this guy without knowing exactly what happened. That is almost as bad as the incident itself.

some may be. i appreciate what eric is trying to do but the analogies he makes i just don't follow, obviously.

but i think most are outraged he was not even taken into custody and standard procedure followed. if that were done we'd have a MUCH better idea of what happened, what's fact and what's fiction.

 

[JBond]

. But my whole gripe from the beginning with this case was the improper handling of the case by the SPD.

Alleged mishandling. Jumping to conclusions. I agree there appear to be many things wrong with this entire incident. I am willing to allow the courts to handle it.

I have not read every post, but isn't the DA attempting to indict him?

 

[JonJon]

Hispanic...whatever

My point is people are in a tizzy over this. Their outrage is very selective. I get more upset about the huge volume of murders. I get more pissed about the lack of humanity displayed every day across our great country.

The usual race mongers are out their using this to their advantage. I wish people would get just upset at the kid shot in a drive by that was doing nothing other than walking down the street. People ignore the local nightly news. I admit I stopped watching because it was one horror story after another. I just find it odd that people are galvanised by this incident, but the daily murders and crimes that occur in every major city go largely uncared about.

I have a CC license. I have been involved in one incident. I did not shoot anyone, but I was charged and cleared. I guess I have a different perspective because of that than some others may have.

I am willing to let the process run it's course. People here are ready to convict this guy without knowing exactly what happened. That is almost as bad as the incident itself.

How do you know people are not outraged by it? You don't know that. The reason those stories don't make headlines is because the person who did the killing is brought to justice or at least arrested/detained to be tried in a court of law. That has NOT happened in this incident, which is the reason for the outrage. If there are more incidents were someone is killed and the killer is not arrested/detained and a proper investigation has not taken place, then it will make headline news, and I will be just as outraged.

 

[JonJon]

Alleged mishandling. Jumping to conclusions. I agree there appear to be many things wrong with this entire incident. I am willing to allow the courts to handle it.

I have not read every post, but isn't the DA attempting to indict him?

Yeah I'm jumping to conclusions when various police departments have spoken up about how badly the investigations were handled and the Chief of that police department stepped down after receiving a vote of no confidence. Yep, typical jumping to conclusions by ol' JonJon...

 

[zrinkill]

Alleged mishandling. Jumping to conclusions. I agree there appear to be many things wrong with this entire incident. I am willing to allow the courts to handle it

Had the public outrage not forced the issue ..... the courts would not have handled it.

You know me JBond ....... I feel the same way you do about 99% of this stuff .....

But this case stinks to high heaven ...... a young man, with no history of aggression or violence and no criminal record, lost his life and the guy who did the killing literally walked away from it.

 

[Lodeus]

Number one, that report is not the whole story obviously. It can't be.

Number two, if it is indeed the whole story, then the guy needs to be arrested.

Number three, why is race even an issue. The guy that died is black, that doesn't make him more dead. The guy that shot him is white, that doesn't make him more white.

The shooter needs to go to jail and be treated just like any other murderer if it did happen the way the report said. Race means nothing in this matter unless they find some White Power literature at his house or something stupid like that.

That is part of the problem in this country still. We are all supposed to be one and yet we still get put into classes and colors. Not that it has much to do with the story but its just something that always has bugged me about society.

 

[DFWJC]

That is part of the problem in this country still. We are all supposed to be one and yet we still get put into classes and colors. Not that it has much to do with the story but its just something that always has bugged me about society.

It has no place even on a birth certificate as far as I'm concerned.
The pendulum keeps swinging (too much one way and then too much the other way) because people keep pushing it.

Oh well, I digress.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Had the public outrage not forced the issue ..... the courts would not have handled it.

You know me JBond ....... I feel the same way you do about 99% of this stuff .....

But this case stinks to high heaven ...... a young man, with no history of aggression or violence and no criminal record, lost his life and the guy who did the killing literally walked away from it.

I agree with this.

but now that a grand jury has been called, it would be nice if the media would ratchet back the sensationalism. My wife still thought it was an adorable 11 year old shot because that is the picture they continue to carry for this story.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Alleged mishandling. Jumping to conclusions. I agree there appear to be many things wrong with this entire incident. I am willing to allow the courts to handle it.

I have not read every post, but isn't the DA attempting to indict him?

They didn't take in Zimmerman's gun for testing, even when a uniformed cops shot and kill their gun is taken for testing. They just let Zimmerman go on his word.

They tested Trayvon's body for drugs and alcohol but did not test GZ, if this is true than it shows that the SPD automatically assumed that Trayvon was in the wrong and the Criminal and just took GZ at his word.

Their failure to follow proper procedure no matter what the killer says may have lost some evidence. The SPD claims that they can't arrest GZ because the law "prevents" them from doing so.

So anyone can claim Self Defense in order to avoid being arrested? Murderers lie all of the time about killing some one or why and how they killed their victims so if the SPD just took Zimmerman's word without following any of the standards that should be followed when someone is killed by another person then they mishandled the case

 

[joseephuss]

The police chief is on record stating it holds no power.

That will be good for his defense if this ever makes it to trial. That doesn't mean it is the end all be all on the matter. Like I said, it is not an all or nothing situation. It will have some influence on jurors. They can't ignore it. I am arguing that he disobeyed an order or that what the police said had the power to stop him. What the police said and what he then did will have possible influence on who decides his fate. I wouldn't build a case around that, but I would make sure it was something brought up in court. The same chief who stepped down.

If I am allowed to attack a person that is following me, how would I know they were detectives? Since you are arguing that I can lawfully attack someone following me, this also applies to detectives up to the point they identify themselves as detectives.

When did I argue lawfully attacking someone following another person? I didn't. You are confusing me with other posters. You made the comparison between Zimmerman and law enforcement officials. And at first you made no mention of being undercover. It was only after I said something that you changed the rules and said you were referring to undercover detectives.

So it is commons sense to assume that your view of what is law would make it more dangerous to be a detective. Fortunately, you are so far removed from reality it is almost scary

How am I removed from reality? Sounds like a personal attack on me. Just kidding. I don't know how this thing will play out. I don't know who is 100% at fault here. Actually, I think both parties are at fault to some extent and Zimmerman may be at fault enough to go down for at least manslaughter. Still don't see how what played out impacts actual police officers even under cover ones. That is extrapolating out possible scenarios without concrete facts, which is something you have been chastising other posters for doing.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

When did I argue lawfully attacking someone following another person? I didn't. You are confusing me with other posters. You made the comparison between Zimmerman and law enforcement officials. And at first you made no mention of being undercover. It was only after I said something that you changed the rules and said you were referring to undercover detectives.

I did not intend to change the rules. Generally, detectives do not wear uniforms, as it hampers investigations. My only real fault is assuming you understood by detectives, I was referring specifically to police that are not readily identified.

My apologies for not being clear.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Not that it really matters, as Florida allows open carry, but what evidence do we have that Trayvor was even aware of the gun? The girl friend didn’t mention it

He might have seen it and may not have. His seeing it may have lead to him fighting back. Whether or not he didn't see it I still say Trayvon or anyone in a situation like that has a good reason to be scared or on guard for someone following them.


How many people would just act like being followed and watched are not a big deal, when you are just walking and minding your own business and doing nothing wrong?

Trayvon may have been 17 but still was taught like most kids are to be alert of strangers and to fight back and run away if they are chased. Many pedophils use tricks like being lost, having a puppy, and playing nice to get to their victims. So how is Trayvon suppose to trust GZ and that GZ won't hurt him?

 

[iceberg]

How am I removed from reality? Sounds like a personal attack on me. Just kidding. I don't know how this thing will play out. I don't know who is 100% at fault here. Actually, I think both parties are at fault to some extent and Zimmerman may be at fault enough to go down for at least manslaughter. Still don't see how what played out impacts actual police officers even under cover ones. That is extrapolating out possible scenarios without concrete facts, which is something you have been chastising other posters for doing.

he does that a lot and when i said that was hypocritical i was called a liar.

i'm glad to see i wasn't just "seeing things".

it's like when i said "follow me around and see what happens" - i didn't mean that as a confrontation and when i thought about it, i took it out because it could be interpreted that way.

a few posts later he said he saw it and told me i was some internet tuf guy and make extrapolations out of that to define me - which is something he is fighting tooth and nail for other, but ok when he does it.

which is hypocritical.

in any event, not picking a fight but again, just glad someone else saw that too.

 

[iceberg]

so you have a "right" to follow me around and ask me what i'm doing if i'm simply walking down the street to a friends house?

and if i don't answer you (as is my own right) what then?

i don't want to get too carried away here cause the odds of me walking much further than my mailbox is low and driving to my friends house is much more likely.

eric - i really would like to know what happens if you ask me what i'm up to and i don't answer. you make some strange claims i really would like you to respond to.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

He might have seen it and may not have. His seeing it may have lead to him fighting back. Whether or not he didn't see it I still say Trayvon or anyone in a situation like that has a good reason to be scared or on guard for someone following them.

I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but you are the king of using loaded words. Fighting back implies that Zimmerman started the fight. We don’t know that. Seeing that a person that appears to be following you in the pubic also is openly carrying a firearm still does not grant you authority to assault the person following you.

Now if Zimmerman pointed his weapon at the teen that did nothing, that is a felony, and he is deserves the book thrown at him.

How many people would just act like being followed and watched are not a big deal, when you are just walking and minding your own business and doing nothing wrong?

I felt like I was being followed before. I agree, it is somewhat scary.

Trayvon may have been 17 but still was taught like most kids are to be alert of strangers and to fight back and run away if they are chased. Many pedophils use tricks like being lost, having a puppy, and playing nice to get to their victims. So how is Trayvon suppose to trust GZ and that GZ won't hurt him?

Again, fighting back is fine, but that implies that the other person started it. We don’t know that is the case.

 

[joseephuss]

I did not intend to change the rules. Generally, detectives do not wear uniforms, as it hampers investigations. My only real fault is assuming you understood by detectives, I was referring specifically to police that are not readily identified.

My apologies for not being clear.

Accepted. An assumption on my part would be that if this were a detective in this particular situation that he would have identified himself as one far before ever discharging his firearm. That is the main reason why I stress that specifics matter. Zimmerman never had that option as he is not a detective. It changes the situation or possible situation.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

eric - i really would like to know what happens if you ask me what i'm up to and i don't answer. you make some strange claims i really would like you to respond to.

obviously I can't make you answer. I have made no strange claims in this thread.

If I saw you commit a felony though, I can detain you, at-least in most states.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but you are the king of using loaded words. Fighting back implies that Zimmerman started the fight. We don’t know that. Seeing that a person that appears to be following you in the pubic also is openly carrying a firearm still does not grant you authority to assault the person following you.

Now if Zimmerman pointed his weapon at the teen that did nothing, that is a felony, and he is deserves the book thrown at him.



I felt like I was being followed before. I agree, it is somewhat scary.



Again, fighting back is fine, but that implies that the other person started it. We don’t know that is the case.

Seeing someone with a weapon or gun following you will put you on Defense. Especially if you are cornered or if that person gets close to you, then the thought may be defend myself or fight back before the weapon gets used on them.


I see no good reasons to follow a person just to follow them that's weird and creepy behaviour to me and they person following someone with a weapon can't be surprised if the person that they are following runs away or defends themselves or fights back in defense of their life.

No matter who attacks first following someone especially if they try to avoid you or run away as Trayvon did with Zimmerman, then following someone will naturally put the person being followed in Defense or Fight or Flight mode I mean if you are still chasing/following me after I try to get away from you or run away then I'm going to wonder if you are trying to do something against me.

No one is going to want to wait to see what the intention is of the person that is following them, how is the one being followed suppose to know whether the person following them has the intention to harm, rob, or kill them?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Seeing someone with a weapon or gun following you will put you on Defense. Especially if you are cornered or if that person gets close to you, then the thought may be defend myself or fight back before the weapon gets used on them.

Starting a fight with a person simply because they have a weapon holstered is about the most idiotic thing you can do. I do not believe that is what Trayvon did though.

No one is going to want to wait to see what the intention is of the person that is following them

That is precisely what I did when I felt someone was following me. As it turns out, they were following me, because I dropped something several blocks back. Imagine if I decided to act out of the fear that was gripping me.

 

[JBond]

They didn't take in Zimmerman's gun for testing, even when a uniformed cops shot and kill their gun is taken for testing. They just let Zimmerman go on his word.

They tested Trayvon's body for drugs and alcohol but did not test GZ, if this is true than it shows that the SPD automatically assumed that Trayvon was in the wrong and the Criminal and just took GZ at his word.

Their failure to follow proper procedure no matter what the killer says may have lost some evidence. The SPD claims that they can't arrest GZ because the law "prevents" them from doing so.

So anyone can claim Self Defense in order to avoid being arrested? Murderers lie all of the time about killing some one or why and how they killed their victims so if the SPD just took Zimmerman's word without following any of the standards that should be followed when someone is killed by another person then they mishandled the case

Do not misunderstand me. If it was bungled as badly as alleged, then heads should roll and charges of misconduct should be filed. All I am saying is let the thing play out before you convict the shooter or anyone else involved. We have a system for a reason. Jumping to conclusions is what started all the problems in the first place. Assuming innocence or guilt without knowing every single detail is not the right way to go, as Zimmerman will find out.

The MSM has their claw into this now and things will be reported and misreported based on drawing headlines. Just look at the quality of the people going down there to profit off a tragedy.