Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[JBond]

I suspect the reason this thread won't be able to survive much longer is the underlying issue is really about guns, and other rights individuals have.

I hope the thread stays alive for a while. I have learned some interesting things from it.

 

[JBond]

What does the Constitution have to do with this?

You are the one that mentioned guns and the right to have and carry one. Your post was a bit incoherent, but I think I understood the basics of what you were trying to convey. Feel free to clarify.

Edit: lets skip that that discussion for the good of the thread.

 

[Cythim]

i'd love to have your spycam that caught all this speculation.

Who needs a spycam when Zimmerman gave us an account of everything I said?

Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me. Dispatcher: OK. Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband.Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is. <-- Zimmerman finds Trayvon to be a threat.

Zimmerman: **** he's running. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck.. <-- Zimmerman exits his vehicle and follows Trayvon.

After that we do not know what happened until the two were seen fighting and Zimmerman killed Trayvon. If Zimmerman never exits his vehicle to follow someone he clearly found to be a threat then this never happens.

 

[JBond]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-chief-trayvon-martin-case-resigns-temporarily-amid/story?id=15977847



His body was in the Morgue for three days as John Doe when the parents reported him missing. Just saying it looks like they didn't even care about Trayvon and didn't even treat him as someone who died wrongly at the hands of Zimmerman.

Where would you like them to store the body? It took three days before his parents noticed he was not there? Odd. I would notice if my 16 year old was not home on time the first day.

 

[Cythim]

if trayvon just said what he was doing, a stranger in a gated community, he'd still be alive.

Trayvon did not initiate the situation. His reaction to being followed by a 250lb man appears to be one of self-preservation.

 

[iceberg]

Who needs a spycam when Zimmerman gave us an account of everything I said?

Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me. Dispatcher: OK. Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband.Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is. <-- Zimmerman finds Trayvon to be a threat.

Zimmerman: **** he's running. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck.. <-- Zimmerman exits his vehicle and follows Trayvon.

After that we do not know what happened until the two were seen fighting and Zimmerman killed Trayvon. If Zimmerman never exits his vehicle to follow someone he clearly found to be a threat then this never happens.

and???

 

[iceberg]

Trayvon did not initiate the situation. His reaction to being followed by a 250lb man appears to be one of self-preservation.

you can tell that from looking at a guy, in the dark, in the rain?

that's pretty cool man.

 

[Cythim]

Where would you like them to store the body? It took three days before his parents noticed he was not there? Odd. I would notice if my 16 year old was not home on time the first day.

Seriously? Where does it say it took the parents 3 days to file the missing persons report? It took the police 3 days to connect the dots between a black teen killed in a neighborhood that his father, who filed a missing persons report on him, was staying in.

 

[Cythim]

you can tell that from looking at a guy, in the dark, in the rain?

that's pretty cool man.

You seem to have not understood what I said. Trayvon's response to being followed by a 250lb man is normal.

 

[Cythim]

and???

I don't know where you are trying to go with this. Are you reading what I am saying or just being a contrarian?

 

[JBond]

I am basing my opinion on the 911 call placed by Zimmerman.

Well that explains a couple of things. You are telling wihout a doubt based on the 911 tape that this was a calculated murder. Talk about a giant reach. Good grief. You claimed being the subject of a beat down is no reason to defend yourself.

Rational people will look at all the information available and then use their own method of reasoning to come to a tentative conclusion. Then they would continue to monitor new information and adjust their belief accordingly.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Where would you like them to store the body? It took three days before his parents noticed he was not there? Odd. I would notice if my 16 year old was not home on time the first day.

No I believe that the Father said that after 12 hours or so he reported a missing person. The issue is not where they stored him but their failure to try and ID him and just labeling him as John Doe.

Trayvon was shot in the Neighborhood did they go door to door to see who Knew him? Because he was visiting his Father in the Neighborhood. Not IDing him until the parents forced the issue shows that they didn't care.

They didn't even respect him enough to at least do a drug and alcohol test on Zimmerman and just treated him like this Dead "Criminal" Kid.


It must have been The Kids fault that he died so lets not even try for a proper investigation or procedures. That what it looks like to me

 

[03EBZ06]

if trayvon just said what he was doing, a stranger in a gated community, he'd still be alive.

Speculation. you don't know if GZ would have taken TM 's word for it and moved on or not or whether GZ would have continued to asked more questions, which might have ended in same manner.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

You are the one that mentioned guns and the right to have and carry one. Your post was a bit incoherent, but I think I understood the basics of what you were trying to convey. Feel free to clarify.

Edit: lets skip that that discussion for the good of the thread.

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to be political. I'm just wondering what's up with a neighborhood watch guy carrying a gun. Initially, I admit, I thought the shooter was underage. Apparently, he's an adult with a right to carry. I get that. He has a right. But still, it just stinks of something funny that he has a gun. I'm not debating his right to bear arms. I'm just questioning why this guy was toting a gun on neighborhood watch? My issue is with the neighborhood watch system letting this idiot have a gun.

In any case, I haven't followed it that closely. It does sound like he was told to stop pursuing the guy, and he kept on. That in and of itself just stinks to me of some "loose cannon" nitwit who got trigger happy. That, or he a motive.

 

[JBond]

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to be political. I'm just wondering what's up with a neighborhood watch guy carrying a gun. Initially, I admit, I thought the shooter was underage. Apparently, he's an adult with a right to carry. I get that. He has a right. But still, it just stinks of something funny that he has a gun. I'm not debating his right to bear arms. I'm just questioning why this guy was toting a gun on neighborhood watch? My issue is with the neighborhood watch system letting this idiot have a gun.

In any case, I haven't followed it that closely. It does sound like he was told to stop pursuing the guy, and he kept on. That in and of itself just stinks to me of some "loose cannon" nitwit who got trigger happy. That, or he a motive.

No problem Cowboy...

Remember this is a high crime area. Obvously he felt a need for protection. Nothing wrong with that on the face of it.

As far as the "pursuit". That is completely up in the air right now. No one definitely knows how it went down.

If he was returning to his truck and TM jumped him. Zimmerman has every right to defend himself.

Again, we do not know yet.

 

[Cythim]

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to be political. I'm just wondering what's up with a neighborhood watch guy carrying a gun. Initially, I admit, I thought the shooter was underage. Apparently, he's an adult with a right to carry. I get that. He has a right. But still, it just stinks of something funny that he has a gun. I'm not debating his right to bear arms. I'm just questioning why this guy was toting a gun on neighborhood watch? My issue is with the neighborhood watch system letting this idiot have a gun.

In any case, I haven't followed it that closely. It does sound like he was told to stop pursuing the guy, and he kept on. That in and of itself just stinks to me of some "loose cannon" nitwit who got trigger happy. That, or he a motive.

This guy was not part of an officially recognized neighborhood watch program. Those programs specifically state that watchers are not to be armed, but I guess this guy does not have to follow the rules since he wasn't part of any real neighborhood watch program.

 

[JBond]

No I believe that the Father said that after 12 hours or so he reported a missing person. The issue is not where they stored him but their failure to try and ID him and just labeling him as John Doe.

Trayvon was shot in the Neighborhood did they go door to door to see who Knew him? Because he was visiting his Father in the Neighborhood. Not IDing him until the parents forced the issue shows that they didn't care.

They didn't even respect him enough to at least do a drug and alcohol test on Zimmerman and just treated him like this Dead "Criminal" Kid.


It must have been The Kids fault that he died so lets not even try for a proper investigation or procedures. That what it looks like to me

That could very well be the case. Again, I urge caution on being judge, jury and executioner, similar to what Zimmerman is accused of doing. Thank you for update on the missing report.

 

[Cythim]

Well that explains a couple of things. You are telling wihout a doubt based on the 911 tape that this was a calculated murder. Talk about a giant reach. Good grief. You claimed being the subject of a beat down is no reason to defend yourself.

Rational people will look at all the information available and then use their own method of reasoning to come to a tentative conclusion. Then they would continue to monitor new information and adjust their belief accordingly.

When did I say it was a calculated murder? When did I say he doesn't have the right to defend himself if he is getting beat down? You are taking my statements and reaching conclusions I never came to. Does Trayvon have the right to defend himself if he feels threated by a guy who was following him at night?

I believe at the very least Zimmerman should be charged with wrongful death in a civil case. Criminal manslaughter charges might be more apropriate but I don't think it should go as high as murder. I think both parties were acting in self defense to some extent and Zimmerman carries fault for having initiated the situation.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

No problem Cowboy...

Remember this is a high crime area. Obvously he felt a need for protection. Nothing wrong with that on the face of it.

As far as the "pursuit". That is completely up in the air right now. No one definitely knows how it went down.

If he was returning to his truck and TM jumped him. Zimmerman has every right to defend himself.

Again, we do not know yet.

If the Crimes in the area were violent in Nature then they should have COps patrolling the area. It would make sense a reaction from being approached by a uniformed cop (Unless the person followed by the cop is breaking the law) is different from being approached in the dark by a strange man. Because unless it's a Dirty Cop a person had no reason to fear that the cop will hurt them. But they have no idea what to expect from a stranger following them and will be put in fight or flight mode and fight if flight fails. Zimmerman said that Trayvon was "Running" away

Otherwise I don't see why he needed a gun. Zimmerman does seem to be paranoid with what he considers reasons to call 911 with 46 calls in a year.

If those are racial slurs that he said on the tape it could show that he had a hostile view of Black Males.

 

[JBond]

This guy was not part of an officially recognized neighborhood watch program. Those programs specifically state that watchers are not to be armed, but I guess this guy does not have to follow the rules since he wasn't part of any real neighborhood watch program.

He was a guy the appears to care about his neighborhood because the cops were powerless to prevent the ongoing crimes in that area.

Regardless, the rules of a traditional watch group do not supersede the Constitution.

I am still curious how you have already convicted the guy based off a short phone call ignoring all the other information.