Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[JBond]

If the Crimes in the area were violent in Nature then they should have COps patrolling the area. It would make sense a reaction from being approached by a uniformed cop (Unless the person followed by the cop is breaking the law) is different from being approached in the dark by a strange man. Because unless it's a Dirty Cop a person had no reason to fear that the cop will hurt them. But they have no idea what to expect from a stranger following them and will be put in fight or flight mode and fight if flight fails. Zimmerman said that Trayvon was "Running" away

Otherwise I don't see why he needed a gun. Zimmerman does seem to be paranoid with what he considers reasons to call 911 with 46 calls in a year.

If those are racial slurs that he said on the tape it could show that he had a hostile view of Black Males.

What racial slurs? That is also completely up to debate. keep in mind what a horrible job the media has done on this story. White shoots black ,even though that is not close to what happened.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

No problem Cowboy...

Remember this is a high crime area. Obvously he felt a need for protection. Nothing wrong with that on the face of it.

As far as the "pursuit". That is completely up in the air right now. No one definitely knows how it went down.

If he was returning to his truck and TM jumped him. Zimmerman has every right to defend himself.

Again, we do not know yet.

I understand what you're saying. But can you see what I'm saying about this young man having a gun and being on neighborhood watch? What's his knowledge of guns? How safe is he? Is he responsible enough to have a gun on neighborhood watch? What is his education and/or qualifications for determining whether or not a crime is occurring?

These are the things I take issue with.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

This guy was not part of an officially recognized neighborhood watch program. Those programs specifically state that watchers are not to be armed, but I guess this guy does not have to follow the rules since he wasn't part of any real neighborhood watch program.

Now it's becoming clearer. I would suspect the neighborhood watch systems wouldn't allow guns via their rulebook. My hunch just got that much stronger.

 

[Cythim]

He was a guy the appears to care about his neighborhood because the cops were powerless to prevent the ongoing crimes in that area.

Regardless, the rules of a traditional watch group do not supersede the Constitution.

I am still curious how you have already convicted the guy based off a short phone call ignoring all the other information.

What other information? I have yet to see the official police report that contains all of this other information that is being ignored.

 

[iceberg]

If the Crimes in the area were violent in Nature then they should have COps patrolling the area.

i thought they got there pretty quick. was i mistaken?

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

That could very well be the case. Again, I urge caution on being judge, jury and executioner, similar to what Zimmerman is accused of doing. Thank you for update on the missing report.

You're welcome. I think that the parents are owed at least an arrest and a trail in front of a Judge and Jury. Would it be proven as Self Defense according to the Stand Your Ground law? I don't know.


But I don't think that there is enough evidence on Zimmerman's side just to let him roam free and not have him go through court, like others would have to go to trail to prove their innocence.

If Trayvon had of broken into GZ's house and got shot dead then that is Much more of a clear case of Self Defense than what happened here. It might not be clear that GZ just murdered him in Cold Blood, but I don't see what makes it clear that it was Self Defense enough to avoid any kind of chrages.

 

[iceberg]

Speculation. you don't know if GZ would have taken TM 's word for it and moved on or not or whether GZ would have continued to asked more questions, which might have ended in same manner.

i was speculating off the speculation cause that's all any of us have right now.

unless you've already made up your mind so the evidence, regardless of what it is, will prove you right.

i'm waiting on more evidence is all.

 

[iceberg]

You're welcome. I think that the parents are owed at least an arrest and a trail in front of a Judge and Jury. Would it be proven as Self Defense according to the Stand Your Ground law? I don't know.

But I don't think that there is enough evidence on Zimmerman's side just to let him roam free and not have him go through court, like others would have to go to trail to prove their innocence.

If Trayvon had of broken into GZ's house and got shot dead then that is Much more of a clear case of Self Defense than what happened here. It might not be clear that GZ just murdered him in Cold Blood, but I don't see what makes it clear that it was Self Defense enough to avoid any kind of chrages.

the stand your ground law doesn't apply to this. it's more for home defense.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

What racial slurs? That is also completely up to debate. keep in mind what a horrible job the media has done on this story. White shoots black ,even though that is not close to what happened.

I said IF he said racial slurs then it shows his Mind Set. Some people think that it is and some don't think so. I don't know if that could be used as evidence in court.

It's up for debate just like some think it was Trayvon screaming for help and others GZ.

 

[iceberg]

I understand what you're saying. But can you see what I'm saying about this young man having a gun and being on neighborhood watch? What's his knowledge of guns? How safe is he? Is he responsible enough to have a gun on neighborhood watch? What is his education and/or qualifications for determining whether or not a crime is occurring?

These are the things I take issue with.

he has a CWP so he's had proper training to get one.

 

[Cythim]

the stand your ground law doesn't apply to this. it's more for home defense.

That is good news for the family if true. If Zimmerman is proven innocent per the stand your ground law they cannot take him to civil court for a wrongful death lawsuit.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

he has a CWP so he's had proper training to get one.

I'm not sure I'd call the average gun training seminar/classes to get a permit "proper", but I guess he had a legal right to have one. That's about as far as I'll go though.

Now that he had that right, did he abuse it? I think that's the underlying question.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

i thought they got there pretty quick. was i mistaken?

I'm talking about having someone on Patrol. So if they see someone who they think are up to no good they at least have a badge and uniform which could have been the difference to how Trayvon would have reacted.

I'll trust a uniformed cop following me way more than I would a stranger following me at night. Even at 17 Trayvon knows what most kids are taught about being approached by strangers.


They are taught not to trust what a stranger says. Just because a stranger plays Nice doesn't mean that their intentions are always innocent and good. Some with evil intents will just act like they are lost or use a puppy to lure in kids or victims.

So even if GZ simply asked what was he doing there, doesn't mean that Trayvon didn't have a reason to be on guard.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

You're welcome. I think that the parents are owed at least an arrest and a trail in front of a Judge and Jury. Would it be proven as Self Defense according to the Stand Your Ground law? I don't know.


But I don't think that there is enough evidence on Zimmerman's side just to let him roam free and not have him go through court, like others would have to go to trail to prove their innocence.

If Trayvon had of broken into GZ's house and got shot dead then that is Much more of a clear case of Self Defense than what happened here. It might not be clear that GZ just murdered him in Cold Blood, but I don't see what makes it clear that it was Self Defense enough to avoid any kind of chrages.

I seriously don't get what the hold up is either. I think the police are just in damage control mode. Now they're dramatizing an actual investigation. When they've obviously botched it from the beginning.

Again, what are the qualifications of these people? That's another question that raises my eyebrow here.

 

[iceberg]

I'm not sure I'd call the average gun training seminar/classes to get a permit "proper", but I guess he had a legal right to have one. That's about as far as I'll go though.

Now that he had that right, did he abuse it? I think that's the underlying question.

agreed. that's what we'll have to be patient for to find out.

 

[Cythim]

Lets go over what we know and agree on some facts.

1. Trayvon was innocent of any wrongdoing when Zimmerman called him in as a suspicious person.

2. At some point Trayvon recognized Zimmerman was following him and fled.

3. Zimmerman chased Trayvon but eventually lost him.


Are these three facts agreeable to all sides?

 

[speedkilz88]

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to be political. I'm just wondering what's up with a neighborhood watch guy carrying a gun. Initially, I admit, I thought the shooter was underage. Apparently, he's an adult with a right to carry. I get that. He has a right. But still, it just stinks of something funny that he has a gun. I'm not debating his right to bear arms. I'm just questioning why this guy was toting a gun on neighborhood watch? My issue is with the neighborhood watch system letting this idiot have a gun.

In any case, I haven't followed it that closely. It does sound like he was told to stop pursuing the guy, and he kept on. That in and of itself just stinks to me of some "loose cannon" nitwit who got trigger happy. That, or he a motive.

This guy was not part of an officially recognized neighborhood watch program. Those programs specifically state that watchers are not to be armed, but I guess this guy does not have to follow the rules since he wasn't part of any real neighborhood watch program.

He was a guy the appears to care about his neighborhood because the cops were powerless to prevent the ongoing crimes in that area.

Regardless, the rules of a traditional watch group do not supersede the Constitution.

I am still curious how you have already convicted the guy based off a short phone call ignoring all the other information.

I understand what you're saying. But can you see what I'm saying about this young man having a gun and being on neighborhood watch? What's his knowledge of guns? How safe is he? Is he responsible enough to have a gun on neighborhood watch? What is his education and/or qualifications for determining whether or not a crime is occurring?

These are the things I take issue with.

Now it's becoming clearer. I would suspect the neighborhood watch systems wouldn't allow guns via their rulebook. My hunch just got that much stronger.

If this is all true than in my mind the guy is a Neighborhood Vigilante.

 

[iceberg]

Lets go over what we know and agree on some facts.

1. Trayvon was innocent of any wrongdoing when Zimmerman called him in as a suspicious person.

2. At some point Trayvon recognized Zimmerman was following him and fled.

3. Zimmerman chased Trayvon but eventually lost him.


Are these three facts agreeable to all sides?

1. and how does zimmerman know this? this is a gated community where he knows most of all the people there. he did not know this person. he's volunteering his time to watch over his neighborhood and sees someone he doesn't know in this *high crime* neighborhood.

2. i thought he said "i won't run".

3. i thought the 911 call showed zimmerman going back to his truck.

i'll be glad to go over the facts when we have them.

 

[Cythim]

1. and how does zimmerman know this? this is a gated community where he knows most of all the people there. he did not know this person. he's volunteering his time to watch over his neighborhood and sees someone he doesn't know in this *high crime* neighborhood.

2. i thought he said "i won't run".

3. i thought the 911 call showed zimmerman going back to his truck.

i'll be glad to go over the facts when we have them.

1. Zimmerman must assume this because he did not witness Trayvon commit a crime nor have a report of a crime being committed at the time of the incident.

2. I didn't say ran, I said he fled. Walking away in the opposite direction is fleeing, and ZImmerman said "He ran."

3. Zimmerman never mentioned returning to his truck during the 911 call. He specifically confirmed having followed Trayvon and eventually losing him.

Your three counter arguements do not refute the facts I have laid before you.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Lets go over what we know and agree on some facts.

1. Trayvon was innocent of any wrongdoing when Zimmerman called him in as a suspicious person.

2. At some point Trayvon recognized Zimmerman was following him and fled.

3. Zimmerman chased Trayvon but eventually lost him.


Are these three facts agreeable to all sides?

I can agree. Just feel bad for Trayvon's parents they will spend the rest of their lives wondering "What if". What if Zimmerman never suspected Trayvon of wrong doing, what if he had stayed in his truck