Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[iceberg]

1. Zimmerman must assume this because he did not witness Trayvon commit a crime nor have a report of a crime being committed at the time of the incident.

2. I didn't say ran, I said he fled. Walking away in the opposite direction is fleeing, and ZImmerman said "He ran."

3. Zimmerman never mentioned returning to his truck during the 911 call. He specifically confirmed having followed Trayvon and eventually losing him.

Your three counter arguements do not refute the facts I have laid before you.

and they don't present all sides either. they seem to lean to travyons side.

i don't think we know enough of "said facts" to determin which way they point for sure. so we speculate is all.

 

[Cythim]

and they don't present all sides either. they seem to lean to travyons side.

i don't think we know enough of "said facts" to determin which way they point for sure. so we speculate is all.

These three facts are based on what we know about Trayvon (he was walking home from the store) and what information Zimmerman gave on his 911 call. You are being purposely obtuse in order to halt the discussion.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

1. and how does zimmerman know this? this is a gated community where he knows most of all the people there. he did not know this person. he's volunteering his time to watch over his neighborhood and sees someone he doesn't know in this *high crime* neighborhood.

2. i thought he said "i won't run".

3. i thought the 911 call showed zimmerman going back to his truck.

i'll be glad to go over the facts when we have them.

Zimmerman said that Trayvon was on drugs or something, what gave him that thought that Trayvon was breaking the law or about to do so in one way or another?

Trayvon was just walking. It's one thing to be cautious of a person that you don't know but another thing to flat out jump to the conclusion that this person is on Drugs or about to do something wrong.

When nothing clearly points out what Zimmerman suspected Trayvon for being Suspicious of. Does Zimmerman really know every single face in the Neighorhood by heart?

If Zimmerman didn't know Trayvon, Trayvon also did not know Zimmerman and had the right to be on guard for a stranger following him, if Zimmerman had the right to follow the Kid because it was a High Crimes area.

 

[Cythim]

If this is all true than in my mind the guy is a Neighborhood Vigilante.

I agree, he has stopped criminals in the past and I suspect that is exactly what he was doing this time. It always going to escalate to the point where he shot someone, he just picked an innocent target this time. No doubt he thought himself a hero as he stood over Trayvon's body.

 

[JBond]

If this is all true than in my mind the guy is a Neighborhood Vigilante.

Hey Speed...

I should clarify my comments. A National Community Watch program came out and said members should not carry fire arms. Some misinterpret that as that group speaking for the thousands and thousands of semi-formal watch programs across the country. Most do not register with a national group. Many are just fine with a personal decision on whether or not to carry.

The tenor of the story based on my interpretation is that he was part of a semi-formal group.

I was disappointed when I saw the widely repeated assertions of one group, and was afraid it would be taken as speaking for every group.

Regarding if he was a vigilante or not, I have no idea at this point in time.

I do not consider semi-formal groups gangs of vigilantes, although there are bad apples in every bunch.

Still to early to pass judgement.

 

[JBond]

I agree, he has stopped criminals in the past and I suspect that is exactly what he was doing this time. It always going to escalate to the point where he shot someone, he just picked an innocent target this time. No doubt he thought himself a hero as he stood over Trayvon's body.

So you got all this from the 911 tape. Wow. Change Cythim to Sherlock. You cracked the case. Well done.

 

[03EBZ06]

i was speculating off the speculation cause that's all any of us have right now.

unless you've already made up your mind so the evidence, regardless of what it is, will prove you right.

i'm waiting on more evidence is all.

My mind isn't entirely made up but I'm just wondering is if GZ didn't have a gun on him, would he have approached TM or others as he as done in the past.

On a different note , few had mentioned physical difference in height only, not weight, GZ weight 240 lbs, is he overheight, yeah he is but I really don't know how he let a scrawny 140 pounder over take him, when wrestling, GZ should have strength advantage

 

[JBond]

My mind isn't entirely made up but I'm just wondering is if GZ didn't have a gun on him, would he have approached TM or others as he as done in the past.

On a different note , few had mentioned physical difference in height only, not weight, GZ weight 240 lbs, is he overheight, yeah he is but I really don't know how he let a scrawny 140 pounder over take him, when wrestling, GZ should have strength advantage

That first part is interesting. I am not sure it is relevant regarding if this was murder or self defense, but an interesting take.

The second part...We have no idea how the fight went down. Maybe I should not reference the height difference as often. But height can be intimidating especially when you are on your back trying to fight. No idea of the strength difference. I also do not know if the 140lb estimate is correct. The news has made a mess of much of the reporting.

 

[Vtwin]

My mind isn't entirely made up but I'm just wondering is if GZ didn't have a gun on him, would he have approached TM or others as he as done in the past.

On a different note , few had mentioned physical difference in height only, not weight, GZ weight 240 lbs, is he overheight, yeah he is but I really don't know how he let a scrawny 140 pounder over take him, when wrestling, GZ should have strength advantage

Its easy to come up with a speculative scenario in which Zimmerman baited the kid into an altercation just so this "unintelligible" wouldn't get away this time.

Its hard for me to understand how Zimmeran could have gotten his weapon out of its concealed carry position and put rounds on target while engaged in a physical altercation.

If weaponless Trayvon had wrestled/knocked Zimmerman to the ground and was standing over him I don't see how Zimmerman could be in fear for his life. Fear of a beating maybe but not his life. I also don't see someone I am standing over after having knocked or wrestled down, getting the drop on me unless I was already backing off and not in a position to be a threat. I see a hand going for something and I'm all over it.

I can understand the mindset of an LEO wannabe creating the situation that allowed him to act out on his long suppressed fantasies.

I hope for the sake of everyone involved the real truth is determined.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Its easy to come up with a speculative scenario in which Zimmerman baited the kid into an altercation just so this "unintelligible" wouldn't get away this time.

Its hard for me to understand how Zimmeran could have gotten his weapon out of its concealed carry position and put rounds on target while engaged in a physical altercation.

If weaponless Trayvon had wrestled/knocked Zimmerman to the ground and was standing over him I don't see how Zimmerman could be in fear for his life. Fear of a beating maybe but not his life. I also don't see someone I am standing over after having knocked or wrestled down, getting the drop on me unless I was already backing off and not in a position to be a threat. I see a hand going for something and I'm all over it.

I can understand the mindset of an LEO wannabe creating the situation that allowed him to act out on his long suppressed fantasies.

I hope for the sake of everyone involved the real truth is determined.

It's going to be an uphill battle since there are so many holes in the case due to police apathy during what should have been an initial investigation.

 

[Vtwin]

It's going to be an uphill battle since there are so many holes in the case due to police apathy during what should have been an initial investigation.

I believe that is one fact we can all agree on.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

It's going to be an uphill battle since there are so many holes in the case due to police apathy during what should have been an initial investigation.

I agree that botching the investigation is what could get Zimmerman off and not his actual innocence.

Evidence that may have been lost in in the testing of the Gun(They let him go home with it) Or not taking Zimmerman's clothes and testing it for Gun Powder.


Those at fault for messing this investigation up should never work in Law enforcement again.

 

[iceberg]

I agree, he has stopped criminals in the past and I suspect that is exactly what he was doing this time. It always going to escalate to the point where he shot someone, he just picked an innocent target this time. No doubt he thought himself a hero as he stood over Trayvon's body.

yea, i'm *sure* that's exactly what he thought.

glad to see you wait for the facts from all sides.

i've never killed anyone and i hope to god i never have to. you have NO idea how he was feeling at the time.

 

[WoodysGirl]

It's going to be an uphill battle since there are so many holes in the case due to police apathy during what should have been an initial investigation.

I believe that is one fact we can all agree on.

Ditto that

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Ditto that

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tritto

 

[Cythim]

So you got all this from the 911 tape. Wow. Change Cythim to Sherlock. You cracked the case. Well done.

No, this is my personal opinion based on everything that has been said about Zimmerman. I didn't mention his guilt in this statement, only commented on the way he behaved. You really have a hard time understanding my comments. I'll try to tone the language down for you.

 

[Brian_C82]

There is nothing "tragic" about this event. Zimmerman was walking back to his car after confronting Trayvon, and the little punk attacked him. Zimmerman was hospitalized with a broken nose and an injury to the back of his head. Pretty clear cut case of self-defense. If you don't want to get shot, don't attack people with your fists. That's why it's so dishonest to say the guy was "unarmed". Plenty of 17 year olds can kill you with their fists.

 

[iceberg]

brian - please keep politics out of it.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

There is nothing "tragic" about this event. Zimmerman was walking back to his car after confronting Trayvon, and the little punk attacked him. Zimmerman was hospitalized with a broken nose and an injury to the back of his head. Pretty clear cut case of self-defense. If you don't want to get shot, don't attack people with your fists. That's why it's so dishonest to say the guy was "unarmed". Plenty of 17 year olds can kill you with their fists.

Gingrich is absolutely right to criticize Obama for his racist and biased comment. Obama is basically saying that this case deseves special attention because Trayvon looks like him, i.e. because he's black. Not to mention that it's totally inappropriate for the President to make comments about a case like this. Obama doesn't care if Zimmerman gets a fair trial. He automatically sides with the black guy, facts be damned.

According to Zimmerman he was walking back to his car. No one saw how the fight actually started. Well see when the state and Feds are done investigating.

 

[Cythim]

There is nothing "tragic" about this event. Zimmerman was walking back to his car after confronting Trayvon, and the little punk attacked him.

welcome to my ignore list. It is sad that someone can actually believe this.