Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[CowboyMcCoy]

You have your CC licence and are trained? I did not know that. What kept you from pulling your weapon as your bones were being broken? Was it a complete stranger? Just curious.

I had met the guy earlier in the night. Then we had a misunderstanding. We were both pretty drunk. This was years ago. No, I don't have a CC license. But I can shoot a gun rather well. I grew up shooting pretty much anything and everything that moved with all sorts of guns.

Nowadays, at 35, I think differently about guns, because I understand them. They're powerful. And only in very rare circumstances should it be justified that they be used against someone.

If I choose to run after someone with a gun, and if they dare defend themselves against a my being a neighborhood watch outlaw (after the cops said to stop chasing a guy), I wouldn't think it'd be fair of me to chase him, shoot him, and then claim self-defense.

But that's just how I think. I'm unable to justify your way of seeing this, with my own thinking.

 

[JBond]

Can I answer that for him?
You don't shoot and kill people just b/c you are in a fist fight and may be coming up short.
I doubt the guwas trying to kill him or anything.

Great. It's over as I stated. Zimmerman is evil. The kid did nothing wrong by attacking. Fine It's done.

Although I am still curious about CowboyMcCoy and his claim of carrying a firearm, while being attacked and brutally beaten.

How did he know this stranger was not trying to kill him. Did he promise as he broke his wrist that he will only mess him up a little?

DF, if you were attacked by a stranger and you were down and nearly out, you would not resort to other means if you thought it would save your life?

 

[JBond]

I had met the guy earlier in the night. Then we had a misunderstanding. We were both pretty drunk. This was years ago. No, I don't have a CC license. But I can shoot a gun rather well. I grew up shooting pretty much anything and everything that moved with all sorts of guns.

Nowadays, at 35, I think differently about guns, because I understand them. They're powerful. And only in very rare circumstances should it be justified that they be used against someone.

If I choose to run after someone with a gun, and if they dare defend themselves against a my being a neighborhood watch outlaw (after the cops said to stop chasing a guy), I wouldn't think it'd be fair of me to chase him, shoot him, and then claim self-defense.

But that's just how I think. I'm unable to justify your way of seeing this, with my own thinking.

So you sorta knew the guy and got drunk together. Completely different. Did you have your weapon on your person?

 

[Brian_C82]

If I choose to run after someone with a gun, and if they dare defend themselves against a my being a neighborhood watch outlaw (after the cops said to stop chasing a guy), I wouldn't think it'd be fair of me to chase him, shoot him, and then claim self-defense.

You have a real knack for twisting the facts. The cops didn't tell Zimmerman to stop pursuing the guy. It was a recommendation from the lady who answered his 911 call. He was under no legal obligation to follow her advice, as the cops themselves pointed out.

Run after someone with a gun? It was a CONCEALED gun, and he had a concealed carry license. Martin had no right to attack him under those circumstances. These hip-hop idiots think they can get away with stuff like that. They are wrong.

 

[DFWJC]

Great. It's over as I stated. Zimmerman is evil. The kid did nothing wrong by attacking. Fine It's done.

Although I am still curious about CowboyMcCoy and his claim of carrying a firearm, while being attacked and brutally beaten.

How did he know this stranger was not trying to kill him. Did he promise as he broke his wrist that he will only mess him up a little?

DF, if you were attacked by a stranger and you were down and nearly out, you would not resort to other means if you thought it would save your life?

Like I said JB, I am assuming that it was a regular fist fight. Just b/c you're losing doesn't mean you can go and kill someone with a gun.
But yes, I agree, if you thought a person was trying to kill you, you take any means necessary to defend yourself.

 

[Noryb]

there's things the media isn't saying and zimmerman right now can't say.

Please share!

 

[CowboyMike]

Thought this was an interesting perspective. Levar Burton on twitter:

"@levarburton: Please #explainthistome. Lady who threw flour on Kim K. was arrested on site, but the man who killed Trayvon Martin is still free!"

 

[Noryb]

This guy was not part of an officially recognized neighborhood watch program. Those programs specifically state that watchers are not to be armed, but I guess this guy does not have to follow the rules since he wasn't part of any real neighborhood watch program.

The apartment complex did not have any agreement with Zimmerman to patrol the complex. Trayvon was a guest in the complex. Trayvon had more right to ask questions than Zimmerman did. Zimmerman had no business being on the property....

 

[Noryb]

Man look at this fat helpless guy....

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

In response to a Bounty being put out for Zimmerman's arrest Sanford responded by saying that such matters should be handle by trained professionals.

Contradicting the "right" that Zimmerman has to treat someone like a criminal. I don't condone the Bounty either, but if they have the Legal right to put out the Bounty on ZImmerman than it must be their "right" to put out a 10,000 award because they see ZImmerman as wrong like Zimmerman saw Trayvon as wrong

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Poor Tayvon is not alive to defend himself, so it's a stacked deck. That sux.

Still, the "shadow of a doubt" applies to Zimmerman, seeing that he is the accused.

It does seem that some who say we should wait for the facts and not accuse Zimmerman of murder, yet some on the other side on jumping to what they see as "Fact" that Trayvon started the fight and that Zimmerman was justified in killing him.


This is all with "Evidence" that the SPD an Police Department with a history of bad work has collected. If they had done their jobs correctly then the DOJ and FBI wouldn't feel the need to do their own investigation.

 

[Noryb]

In response to a Bounty being put out for Zimmerman's arrest Sanford responded by saying that such matters should be handle by trained professionals.

Contradicting the "right" that Zimmerman has to treat someone like a criminal. I don't condone the Bounty either, but if they have the Legal right to put out the Bounty on ZImmerman than it must be their "right" to put out a 10,000 award because they see ZImmerman as wrong like Zimmerman saw Trayvon as wrong

I wish they would go away with that nonsense. This is already a very touchy subject and we don't need to fuel the flames.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I wish they would go away with that nonsense. This is already a very touchy subject and we don't need to fuel the flames.

I agree, I believe that Zimmerman should be arrested and have to face trail as others would, but do not agree with the Bounty that they have put out on him.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Thought this was an interesting perspective. Levar Burton on twitter:

"@levarburton: Please #explainthistome. Lady who threw flour on Kim K. was arrested on site, but the man who killed Trayvon Martin is still free!"

SMH...true.

 

[Noryb]

It does seem that some who say we should wait for the facts and not accuse Zimmerman of murder, yet some on the other side on jumping to what they see as "Fact" that Trayvon started the fight and that Zimmerman was justified in killing him.


This is all with "Evidence" that the SPD an Police Department with a history of bad work has collected. If they had done their jobs correctly then the DOJ and FBI wouldn't feel the need to do their own investigation.

Zimmerman's lawyer confirmed what I was saying. Trayvon busted him in the nose causing Zimmerman to fall backwards and bust his head. Now the question is what caused Trayvon to do this. Did Trayvon feel threatened and even though Trayvon hit him did Zimmerman actually fear for his life, not a good ole fashion *** whooping but his life.

Edit: In other words there was no attack from behind.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

So you sorta knew the guy and got drunk together. Completely different. Did you have your weapon on your person?

No. But if I did, I still wouldn't have shot him. Aside from my wrist being broken, he took a good boxing and got the short end of the deal in the short term. Two black eyes, a busted head and a bloody nose. We're even. Yes, I had a long-term injury. But I promise you I'd have just taken a beating like a man even if I had a gun and even if I was losing.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Zimmerman's lawyer confirmed what I was saying. Trayvon busted him in the nose causing Zimmerman to fall backwards and bust his head. Now the question is what caused Trayvon to do this. Did Trayvon feel threatened and even though Trayvon hit him did Zimmerman actually fear for his life, not a good ole fashion *** whooping but his life.

Edit: In other words there was no attack from behind.

I heard some of what GZ's Lawyer said but missed that part. This will prove that Zimmerman wasn't knocked down from behind if his lawyer is correct.

The Girl friends testimony could play a big clue because she said that it sounded like Trayvon was pushed and Trayvon's ear piece fell out. Not saying that it happened like this for sure, but if it did and she is correct in what she thinks she heard, than Zimmerman made some kind of contact with Trayvon with enough force to knock out someone's ear piece.

 

[Noryb]

I heard some of what GZ's Lawyer said but missed that part. This will prove that Zimmerman wasn't knocked down from behind if his lawyer is correct.

The Girl friends testimony could play a big clue because she said that it sounded like Trayvon was pushed and Trayvon's ear piece fell out. Not saying that it happened like this for sure, but if it did and she is correct in what she thinks she heard, than Zimmerman made some kind of contact with Trayvon with enough force to knock out someone's ear piece.

Almost every statement Trayvon's girlfriend said is confirmed by Zimmermans 911 call.

- Trayvon was being followed confirmed by Zimmerman
- Trayvon pulled up his hoodie confirmed by Zimmerman
- Trayvon eventually ran confirmed by Zimmerman
- Trayvon said he lost him confirmed by Zimmerman
- When Zimmerman found him Trayvon asks "why are you following me" not confirmed
- Zimmerman responds "what are you doing around here" not confirmed
- After that the phone goes dead

Because her first four statements are confirmed by Zimmerman's statements I'm inclined to believe the last three statements even though the other side says she is bias.

I believe that's the point when Zimmerman makes an aggressive move such as grabbing Trayvon of even pulling his gun. People need to remember that Zimmerman found Trayvon to be suspicious, felt he was on drugs and had something in his hands. He is not going to approach Trayvon without being on guard.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Almost every statement Trayvon's girlfriend said is confirmed by Zimmermans 911 call.

- Trayvon was being followed confirmed by Zimmerman
- Trayvon pulled up his hoodie confirmed by Zimmerman
- Trayvon eventually ran confirmed by Zimmerman
- Trayvon said he lost him confirmed by Zimmerman
- When Zimmerman found him Trayvon asks "why are you following me" not confirmed
- Zimmerman responds "what are you doing around here" not confirmed
- After that the phone goes dead

Because her first four statements are confirmed by Zimmerman's statements I'm inclined to believe the last three statements even though the other side says she is bias.

I believe that's the point when Zimmerman makes an aggressive move such as grabbing Trayvon of even pulling his gun. People need to remember that Zimmerman found Trayvon to be suspicious, felt he was on drugs and had something in his hands. He is not going to approach Trayvon without being on guard.

Suspicion doesn't give you a license to kill someone.

 

[Noryb]

Suspicion doesn't give you a license to kill someone.

Agreed, which is why he should be tried for 2nd degree murder not manslaughter. I'm just playing out how I think events unfolded, some factual and some speculative.