Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[TheCount]

If he was 6'3" it makes less sense for Zimmerman to follow a tall Kid that he deemed as "On drugs" and "Up to no good" if he felt threatened why go after the person?

Having a gun makes some feel 7' 280 lbs. There's no doubt in my mind that without the gun, Zimmerman never approaches Trayvon. I'd love to know when he got his conceal license and how often he carried his gun on him.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Having a gun makes some feel 7' 280 lbs. There's no doubt in my mind that without the gun, Zimmerman never approaches Trayvon. I'd love to know when he got his conceal license and how often he carried his gun on him.

Most people (at least here in Texas) who have a CHL pretty much feel naked without it and carry it everywhere they are legally allowed to. My dad doesnt even go on a walk around the neighborhood without it, though he has good reasoning as he has been forced to draw on someone twice.

The one time you don't carry could very well be the time you actually need it.

 

[TheCount]

Most people (at least here in Texas) who have a CHL pretty much feel naked without it and carry it everywhere they are legally allowed to. My dad doesnt even go on a walk around the neighborhood without it, though he has good reasoning as he has been forced to draw on someone twice.

The one time you don't carry could very well be the time you actually need it.

I don't have a problem with him taking it around with him, I have a problem with it effecting the way he approaches potentially dangerous situations. A gun shouldn't turn you from Clark Kent to Superman.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I don't have a problem with him taking it around with him, I have a problem with it effecting the way he approaches potentially dangerous situations. A gun shouldn't turn you from Clark Kent to Superman.

It doesnt cause most people to approach anything differently, they use it when the situation forces them too.

Perhaps it was the case with Zimmerman, but if it was it was illogical. You are always always using a concealed weapon from a responsive perspective instead of anticipatory, meaning that if someone is trying to do you harm chances are they will get their shot before you have time to respond. Concealed handguns are most effective at diffusing situations in which an individual has not singled you out specifically, such as a bank/store robbery or attacking another person. Only a small percentage of reported concealed weapon use is the result of a physical attack on the person with the license as most people won't draw even if they feel threatened until someone actually tries to harm and by them it is often too late as they have the jump on you. Luckily my dad was stronger than a guy who tried to mug him from behind with a knife and was able to throw him to the ground and draw.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Having a gun makes some feel 7' 280 lbs. There's no doubt in my mind that without the gun, Zimmerman never approaches Trayvon. I'd love to know when he got his conceal license and how often he carried his gun on him.

I agree.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I agree.

Perhaps, but legally it doesnt matter either way. Why he approached him is irrelevant, only whether or not Trayvon's actions justified the shooting matter and it does not appear at this point that they did.

Just because a gun makes you "feel" brave doesnt mean it changes the legality of your actions. He appears guilty regardless of how brave he felt.

 

[Noryb]

Most people (at least here in Texas) who have a CHL pretty much feel naked without it and carry it everywhere they are legally allowed to. My dad doesnt even go on a walk around the neighborhood without it, though he has good reasoning as he has been forced to draw on someone twice.

The one time you don't carry could very well be the time you actually need it.

Totally off subject, but I've always wondered is a person allowed to carry a gun in an establishment that serves liquor like a bar?

 

[BlueStar3398]

Totally off subject, but I've always wondered is a person allowed to carry a gun in an establishment that serves liquor like a bar?

No. I know someone with a CHL license. They will not go near alcohol when they have their gun with them.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Having a gun makes some feel 7' 280 lbs. There's no doubt in my mind that without the gun, Zimmerman never approaches Trayvon. I'd love to know when he got his conceal license and how often he carried his gun on him.

He assaulted an Police Officer so I don't know how he got the Gun either. But Zimmerman also claims that the Cop assaulted him first. Just like he claims that Trayvon assaulted him first.

So Zimmerman is always getting attacked and has to defend himself? Zimmerman has shown a past for violence for a person who has committed any type of violent acts, their past would be considered in the court of law.

You shouldn't approach someone that you see a a threat unless you intend to use that gun, so Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck and Trayvon would be alive.

The advice from the 911 dispatcher not to follow is not a lawful order, but Zimmerman's assault on a Officer shows that he doesn't respect the orders of Law enforcement when he wants to do something.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Totally off subject, but I've always wondered is a person allowed to carry a gun in an establishment that serves liquor like a bar?

Only if the sale of alcohol accounts for less than 51% of the total revenue at a given establishment. So in other words, it is illegal to carry at bars. The mere fact that alcohol is present doesnt restrict you, though. You don't have to worry about a typical restaurant that serves alcohol for instance since most the revenue comes from the food and not alcohol.

You're also not allowed to carry in state schools or school zones, at polling stations, courthouses, racetracks, and most sporting events. Churches, privately owned establishments and hospitals have the right to post notice making it illegal to carry there but most in Texas don't. I've never been to a church that posted that you can't carry and only MAJOR hospitals like those in the Texas and South Texas medical centers ban concealed weapons. Contrary to popular believe, you ARE allowed to carry in post offices, government buildings and banks.

These are all Texas regulations, mind you. Each state is slightly different. I believe Florida does NOT restrict you from carrying at professional sporting events so long as their their concession sales of alcohol are below 51% of the revenue.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Shocked this thread is still going on based on the known evidence.

Imagine for a moment you live in a high crime area. Imagine that rather then move out of the area (as I would do), you choose to be proactive, and help the community overcome these recent rash of crimes.

Now one fateful night, you saw a suspicious kid, and you call the cops. The kid approaches you, sees you are calling the cops, and runs. The police, asking you to report anything he does next, causes you in that moment’s notice to chase after him. Shortly after the police inform you that they don’t need you to do that. You say ok, and start heading back to your vehicle.

At this point, the kid jumps you. He is beating the crap out of you, and you call for help. You see people around you, and are certain someone will come to your aid. In horror you see that the best person that can help you, an adult male, decided to run back into his house.

At this moment in time, you realize that the only way out of this situation is to defend yourself, and you take out your gun. The kid, seeing that the person he was beating up now may gain the upper hand, doesn’t turn and run, he charges you in the hopes of taking the gun away. as two people fight for the gun, you manage to pull the trigger and hit the aggressor in the chest with a kill shot.

I am not saying this is what happened, because we can’t know for sure. But this is not crazy speculation, as it matches the known evidence and the Testimony given by Zimmerman.

I understand the voracity the family of the deceased have in fighting upstream against facts that don’t look good, but the few of you so sure Zimmerman is in the wrong frankly, disgust me. Nothing in the evidence gives you the right to be judgmental, nothing. Zimmerman may of concocted the perfect story in the minutes he had prior to the police arriving on scene. He could be lying, I don’t argue that. But he could be telling the truth too. You don’t know, but many of you are acting like you do know. And why? What did you lose in this tragic event to cause you to rush to judgment?

 

[BlueStar3398]

I would like to know the facts about what happened. I am reading conflicting stories. My concern is that this has the potential to blow up into all out riots like the one that happened after the cops were acquitted of beating Rodney King in 1992. And now, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the Black Panthers are involved. Some of them are using Trayvon to push their own agendas. The Black Panthers have a bounty on Zimmerman. Jesse Jackson, on TV, actually said that the Trayvon Martin incident produced a "magic moment". And I have never liked Al Sharpton since the Tawana Brawley debacle back in the 80s. I hope justice is served in the Trayvon case without ignorant people doing something stupid.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I would like to know the facts about what happened. I am reading conflicting stories. My concern is that this has the potential to blow up into all out riots like the one that happened after the cops were acquitted of beating Rodney King in 1992. And now, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the Black Panthers are involved. Some of them are using Trayvon to push their own agendas. The Black Panthers have a bounty on Zimmerman. Jesse Jackson, on TV, actually said that the Trayvon Martin incident produced a "magic moment". And I have never liked Al Sharpton since the Tawana Brawley debacle back in the 80s. I hope justice is served in the Trayvon case.

Guys like Sharpton and Jackson have done far more damage to race relations than the white racists they have been screaming about over the past 40 years or so.

The way Jesse Jackson took advantage of the MLK assasination is to this day one of the most sickening and deplorable actions I've ever seen or heard of and yet nobody has the guts to call him on it.

 

[Noryb]

Only if the sale of alcohol accounts for less than 51% of the total revenue at a given establishment. So in other words, it is illegal to carry at bars. The mere fact that alcohol is present doesnt restrict you, though. You don't have to worry about a typical restaurant that serves alcohol for instance since most the revenue comes from the food and not alcohol.

You're also not allowed to carry in state schools or school zones, at polling stations, courthouses, racetracks, and most sporting events. Churches, privately owned establishments and hospitals have the right to post notice making it illegal to carry there but most in Texas don't. I've never been to a church that posted that you can't carry and only MAJOR hospitals like those in the Texas and South Texas medical centers ban concealed weapons. Contrary to popular believe, you ARE allowed to carry in post offices, government buildings and banks.

These are all Texas regulations, mind you. Each state is slightly different. I believe Florida does NOT restrict you from carrying at professional sporting events so long as their their concession sales of alcohol are below 51% of the revenue.

Very interesting... Thanks!

 

[iceberg]

Having a gun makes some feel 7' 280 lbs. There's no doubt in my mind that without the gun, Zimmerman never approaches Trayvon. I'd love to know when he got his conceal license and how often he carried his gun on him.

many pages back i also read someone say that they knew zimmerman felt like a hero standing over Trayvon.

for people getting their news from agendas, media, "i heard this or that"...

we sure to lockdown on what happened.

i'd love to have everyone take a deep breath and let the facts come out before they "make up their minds" but that isn't going to happen. i've pretty much bailed on the thread until facts come out.

speculation has turned to 'facts' far too often in this and so many other things.

 

[iceberg]

Shocked this thread is still going on based on the known evidence.

Imagine for a moment you live in a high crime area. Imagine that rather then move out of the area (as I would do), you choose to be proactive, and help the community overcome these recent rash of crimes.

Now one fateful night, you saw a suspicious kid, and you call the cops. The kid approaches you, sees you are calling the cops, and runs. The police, asking you to report anything he does next, causes you in that moment’s notice to chase after him. Shortly after the police inform you that they don’t need you to do that. You say ok, and start heading back to your vehicle.

At this point, the kid jumps you. He is beating the crap out of you, and you call for help. You see people around you, and are certain someone will come to your aid. In horror you see that the best person that can help you, an adult male, decided to run back into his house.

At this moment in time, you realize that the only way out of this situation is to defend yourself, and you take out your gun. The kid, seeing that the person he was beating up now may gain the upper hand, doesn’t turn and run, he charges you in the hopes of taking the gun away. as two people fight for the gun, you manage to pull the trigger and hit the aggressor in the chest with a kill shot.

I am not saying this is what happened, because we can’t know for sure. But this is not crazy speculation, as it matches the known evidence and the Testimony given by Zimmerman.

I understand the voracity the family of the deceased have in fighting upstream against facts that don’t look good, but the few of you so sure Zimmerman is in the wrong frankly, disgust me. Nothing in the evidence gives you the right to be judgmental, nothing. Zimmerman may of concocted the perfect story in the minutes he had prior to the police arriving on scene. He could be lying, I don’t argue that. But he could be telling the truth too. You don’t know, but many of you are acting like you do know. And why? What did you lose in this tragic event to cause you to rush to judgment?

and i was very guilty of this early on. i was wrong and have since stepped back and trying to understand all scenarios and what actually happened.

with an open mind.

 

[TheCount]

He assaulted an Police Officer so I don't know how he got the Gun either.

Weren't charges dropped on that? I'm not sure I buy the assault of an ATF officer either, pretty much laying a pinkie on a police officer can lead to an assault charge if they want it to just like it's easy for cops to lay a resisting arrest charge if you do anything but comply immediately with every order issued.

It doesnt cause most people to approach anything differently, they use it when the situation forces them too.

I don't know what it may cause "most people" to do or not do, I'm talking specifically about this situation. I don't think Zimmerman goes out in the dark to follow/approach someone he perceives as being "messed up on drugs" and eventually a threat to his life without that pistol within reach. I sure as hell wouldn't. And my statement has nothing to do with legality of what he did, more the common sense (or lack thereof) of what he did.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

and i was very guilty of this early on. i was wrong and have since stepped back and trying to understand all scenarios and what actually happened.

with an open mind.

you were always more rude to me then to the guys involved in this case (IMO)

 

[iceberg]

you were always more rude to me then to the guys involved in this case (IMO)

and i apologied in a PM.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Weren't charges dropped on that? I'm not sure I buy the assault of an ATF officer either, pretty much laying a pinkie on a police officer can lead to an assault charge if they want it to just like it's easy for cops to lay a resisting arrest charge if you do anything but comply immediately with every order issued.



I don't know what it may cause "most people" to do or not do, I'm talking specifically about this situation. I don't think Zimmerman goes out in the dark to follow/approach someone he perceives as being "messed up on drugs" and eventually a threat to his life without that pistol within reach. I sure as hell wouldn't. And my statement has nothing to do with legality of what he did, more the common sense (or lack thereof) of what he did.

I don't know how the assault went down. Zimmerman also had domestic violence issues