Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[Eric_Boyer]

and i apologied in a PM.

oops, didn't see that. thanks btw

but that wasn't my point, it was that I didn't have you in mind when I wrote what I wrote.

 

[iceberg]

oops, didn't see that. thanks btw

but that wasn't my point, it was that I didn't have you in mind when I wrote what I wrote.

sorry - you just quoted me and i was pretty rude.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Shocked this thread is still going on based on the known evidence.

Imagine for a moment you live in a high crime area. Imagine that rather then move out of the area (as I would do), you choose to be proactive, and help the community overcome these recent rash of crimes.

Now one fateful night, you saw a suspicious kid, and you call the cops. The kid approaches you, sees you are calling the cops, and runs. The police, asking you to report anything he does next, causes you in that moment’s notice to chase after him. Shortly after the police inform you that they don’t need you to do that. You say ok, and start heading back to your vehicle.

At this point, the kid jumps you. He is beating the crap out of you, and you call for help. You see people around you, and are certain someone will come to your aid. In horror you see that the best person that can help you, an adult male, decided to run back into his house.

At this moment in time, you realize that the only way out of this situation is to defend yourself, and you take out your gun. The kid, seeing that the person he was beating up now may gain the upper hand, doesn’t turn and run, he charges you in the hopes of taking the gun away. as two people fight for the gun, you manage to pull the trigger and hit the aggressor in the chest with a kill shot.

I am not saying this is what happened, because we can’t know for sure. But this is not crazy speculation, as it matches the known evidence and the Testimony given by Zimmerman.

I understand the voracity the family of the deceased have in fighting upstream against facts that don’t look good, but the few of you so sure Zimmerman is in the wrong frankly, disgust me. Nothing in the evidence gives you the right to be judgmental, nothing. Zimmerman may of concocted the perfect story in the minutes he had prior to the police arriving on scene. He could be lying, I don’t argue that. But he could be telling the truth too. You don’t know, but many of you are acting like you do know. And why? What did you lose in this tragic event to cause you to rush to judgment?

So Trayvon lost his life for doing nothing wrong and because of the crimes others committed he was painted as a Criminal. The Girlfriend already has given her views of what she thinks what happened and whether she is right or wrong her side should be heard in front of a Judge and Jury. Not all of the evidence clearly points to Zimmerman's side, not all witnesses clearly point to Zimmerman's side.


Zimmerman defenders are only pointing out his right to Self Defense and act like being followed in the Dark by a stranger is no reason for one to fear for their life or at least be on guard. We don't know for sure that if Trayvon ended up on top of ZImmerman that he didn't react out of being attacked in some way first by ZImmerman because his GF said that it sounded like Trayvon was pushed. Even if she couldn't see the scene someone on the phone with someone else right before or around the time of their death can still be a key clue into what happened.

The Police check cell phones for a reason. The GF contradicts that Zimmerman didn't just say okay and headed back to his truck but confronted Trayvon in some way.

So all sides should be heard in a court of law. Sure the evidence points to ZImmerman's side when the SPD is dismissing witnesses, not trying to talk to Trayvon's GF or do anything else that could contradict ZImmerman's story.


In a rush of Judgement to defend Zimmerman, I see a rush to judgement to attack Trayvon's character and assume that he attacked Zimmerman from behind when nothing other then Zimmerman's claim says so.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

So Trayvon lost his life for doing nothing wrong

speculation. he could of been doing something wrong.

 

[Dallas]

There isn't anything going to come from folks here bashing each other back and forth, except for hard feelings and nastiness.

There is sooo much information coming out now that you all weren't even aware of. Most sane people would have said long ago let this play out and see what comes. Our system is that you are INNOCENT until proven GUILTY, but you wouldn't have known that reading this thread.

I bet if we could go back 1 week, half of you wouldnt have said the things you have already, and that's the scary part.

I am not saying Zimmerman is guilty or that the young man he shot was guilty. I don't know all of the facts nor has the investigation shown just yet what happened, but look at all of the assumptions in this thread? Its NUTS!! What I am saying here is you need to allow the feds and police the time to sift through the evidence and present it to a grand jury and allow the court and jury to decide this mans fate if he is guilty or innocent.

What is wrong with that? Why do some of you have to have Zimmerman accountable right now, today? Its a tragedy this young man lost his life. I think we can all agree on it, but look at how the media has stirred up the black community and they just FEEEED off of it.

Black Panther Party preaching hate and offering 10k bounty for Zimmermans head - TODAY !!!! - CHECK * where is the outrage for this? - NOWHERE *

Jesse Jackson all up in this crazyness - CHECK *he wants you all to think he's helping - sounds like more self serving JJ to me, sorry, I ain't buyin it anymore Mr. Jackson*

Louis Farrakhan preaching his hatred towards whites and using this poor young mans death as another trampoline call to further flame the racial divide and call for violence. - CHECK CHECK CHECK I am shocked!!! no not really

All of this because people do not want this country to heal and put racial divides behind us.

People need to wake up and look at all of this crap, because that is exactly what it is and its ALLOWED. This isn't just a tragic story happening here folks. There is farrrrrr more going on w/ the media and the Fl story than just Zimmerman and Treyvon.

 

[Dallas]

speculation. he could of been doing something wrong.

Agreed and a huge reach on R2D. I like the kid but that view is beyond not fair.

He want's fairness for Treyvon but doesn't see his own hypocracy for not being fair to Zimmerman and just allowing the investigation to complete and the courts to decide.

Like I said..he's one who has already made up his mind guilty or not.

All he sees is that...Well...gosh...you just aren't supposed to shoot somebody.

So narrow of a view considering all of the facts of what happened haven't even come out yet.

 

[Noryb]

I understand the voracity the family of the deceased have in fighting upstream against facts that don’t look good, but the few of you so sure Zimmerman is in the wrong frankly, disgust me. Nothing in the evidence gives you the right to be judgmental, nothing. Zimmerman may of concocted the perfect story in the minutes he had prior to the police arriving on scene. He could be lying, I don’t argue that. But he could be telling the truth too. You don’t know, but many of you are acting like you do know. And why? What did you lose in this tragic event to cause you to rush to judgment?

My intentions in this thread was not to prosecute Zimmerman but to show there was sufficient cause for an arrest.

My son will be 17 next month, he wears hoodies, he is 6'1", 140lbs and he is far from a man and even further from a thug. If my son is visiting my sister, who lives in an affluent neighborhood in Atlanta, I don't want him to feel as though he needs to answer some strangers questions to satisfy their suspicions/paranoia.

If somebody finds my son suspicious, looking like he's on drugs and up to no good does the answer "I'm visiting my aunt" satisfy those suspicions or do they follow up with more questions like "who is your aunt?" or "where does your aunt live?". So at what point does the interrogation end at what point are they satisfied with his answer? My son has been taught not to answer probing questions to non-uniformed strangers.

So my point is if you see my son in your neighborhood, you don't recognize him, you find him suspicious, yet you haven't seen him break any laws by all means please call the cops but leave the interrogating to the officers.

I really don't think that's an unreasonable request and I truly believe that's exactly what Zimmerman should have done.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Agreed and a huge reach on R2D. I like the kid but that view is beyond not fair.

He want's fairness for Treyvon but doesn't see his own hypocracy for not being fair to Zimmerman and just allowing the investigation to complete and the courts to decide.

Like I said..he's one who has already made up his mind guilty or not.

All he sees is that...Well...gosh...you just aren't supposed to shoot somebody.

So narrow of a view considering all of the facts of what happened haven't even come out yet.

How can you accuse someone else of having narrow views when you are only considering two possibilities yourself? It isnt as simple as "did he have the right to shoot him or not?"

Even if he was in the right at the time of the shooting, his idiotic actions PRIOR to the shooting are at least partially responsible for what happened. Is he guilty of murder? I don't know, but based on the current evidence he is DEFINITELY guilty of manslaughter. His negligence, and the fact that his neglegence was not covered under police authority since Trayvon had no reason to believe he wasnt just some attacker, led to this.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

How can you accuse someone else of having narrow views when you are only considering two possibilities yourself? It isnt as simple as "did he have the right to shoot him or not?"

Even if he was in the right at the time of the shooting, his idiotic actions PRIOR to the shooting are at least partially responsible for what happened. Is he guilty of murder? I don't know, but based on the current evidence he is DEFINITELY guilty of manslaughter. His negligence, and the fact that his neglegence was not covered under police authority since Trayvon had no reason to believe he wasnt just some attacker, led to this.

calling his actions idiotic means you are making assumptions not based on the known facts.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

speculation. he could of been doing something wrong.

So what did he do for Zimmerman to assume that he was on drugs and about to break the law? Where is Zimmerman's proof that Trayvon was about to break the law to justify Zimmerman rushing to judgment on The Kid and treating him like a Criminal?

No matter how you look at it Trayvon got profiled and suspected because of crimes that he had nothing to do with and if Zimmerman had never assumed that he was up to something wrong then he would still be alive.


We shouldn't rush to judgment on Zimmerman but he did the same to Trayvon. There is nothing to prove that Zimmerman was right about Trayvon being up to no good


If Dooley in a similar case has to be arrested and charged with something, than what makes Zimmerman Special for avioding Trail? Witnesses from both sides speak at trails all of the time. So I don't see how one witness should be able to allow for Zimmerman to avoid trail, when witnesses also contradict his story If it was always up to just witness statements and the word of the killer, why even have trails at all and let the Police departments decide everything?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

My intentions in this thread was not to prosecute Zimmerman but to show there was sufficient cause for an arrest.

there still isn't sufficient cause for arrest.

you do know Zimmerman was handcuffed, detained, and transported to the police station I hope.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

So what did he do for Zimmerman to assume that he was on drugs and about to break the law? Where is Zimmerman's proof that Trayvon was about to break the law to justify Zimmerman rushing to judgment on The Kid and treating him like a Criminal?

you don't need proof to follow a suspect in the public. they are called suspects, because you only suspect.

If Martin attacked Zimmerman simply because he was being followed. then Martin broke the law.

 

[Dallas]

How can you accuse someone else of having narrow views when you are only considering two possibilities yourself? It isnt as simple as "did he have the right to shoot him or not?"

Even if he was in the right at the time of the shooting, his idiotic actions PRIOR to the shooting are at least partially responsible for what happened. Is he guilty of murder? I don't know, but based on the current evidence he is DEFINITELY guilty of manslaughter. His negligence, and the fact that his neglegence was not covered under police authority since Trayvon had no reason to believe he wasnt just some attacker, led to this.

I am not saying either was right or wrong. You are missing my whole post.

I haven't convicted anybody. I clearly say you guys don't have the facts. Where did I say he had the right to shoot him? Where did I say Treyvon was wrong in whatever MIGHT have happened to get shot?

The Stand Your Ground laws aside. I am not arguing for Florida here. I am arguing Zimmerman and Treyvon and that situation.

Stand Your Ground laws are under review in a lot of states right now because of this, but that isn't what I was even talking about. Alaska just did their review last week. We are keeping ours btw. No changes to it are coming.

Based on FL law you don't know if he's guilty or not of it, because the facts have not been shown what transpired and only then can you draw a conclusion if the Stand Your Ground law was in effect or that Zimmerman will be dropped in a hole for the next 25 years.

To sit here and say Zimmer broke that law based on assumptions and your own biased interpretation of it, isn't anything less than those who have already said Zimmerman is guilty.

My whole point.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

My intentions in this thread was not to prosecute Zimmerman but to show there was sufficient cause for an arrest.

My son will be 17 next month, he wears hoodies, he is 6'1", 140lbs and he is far from a man and even further from a thug. If my son is visiting my sister, who lives in an affluent neighborhood in Atlanta, I don't want him to feel as though he needs to answer some strangers questions to satisfy their suspicions/paranoia.

If somebody finds my son suspicious, looking like he's on drugs and up to no good does the answer "I'm visiting my aunt" satisfy those suspicions or do they follow up with more questions like "who is your aunt?" or "where does your aunt live?". So at what point does the interrogation end at what point are they satisfied with his answer? My son has been taught not to answer probing questions to non-uniformed strangers.

So my point is if you see my son in your neighborhood, you don't recognize him, you find him suspicious, yet you haven't seen him break any laws by all means please call the cops but leave the interrogating to the officers.

I really don't think that's an unreasonable request and I truly believe that's exactly what Zimmerman should have done.

Good point Zimmerman already assumed that Trayvon was up to no good, so there's no guarantee that Zimmerman would have just accepted the answer or if he would think that Trayvon was lying and trying to cover for himself.

Seeing someone unknown in the Neighborhood and asking a question.

"I never seen this guy around before, I wonder who he is, I'll ask him nicely to make sure that things are okay."


That's different from.

"This guy is for sure guilty of doing something or about to do something. I know that he's on drugs and about to do something wrong and therefore I'll call the cops and will follow him"

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

you don't need proof to follow a suspect in the public. they are called suspects, because you only suspect.

If Martin attacked Zimmerman simply because he was being followed. then Martin broke the law.

We don't know who started the fight in the first place. Only Zimmerman's claims and his sole word should never be taken for it because murderers and killers can lie to try and get off, they do it all of the time.

Also the witness seems to have saw the middle of the fight when Trayvon may have gained the Upper hand, that does not mean that Zimmerman just said "okay" and walked back to his truck.


One defense is that he was just walking back to his truck and that he lost sight of Trayvon, the other that he asked Trayvon a question and was attacked.

A broken nose and cut on the back of his head is not 100% proof that he attacked Zimmerman, only that he may have fought back after Zimmerman attacked him.

You can't have people starting fights and then shoot when they feel like they are going to lose.


Zimmerman's lawyer plans to use the Stand Your Ground law apparently. The whole point is that why should Zimmerman have to avoid Trail?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

We don't know who started the fight in the first place. Only Zimmerman's claims and his sole word should never be taken for it

in a court of law, the sworn testimony of Zimmerman is admissible evidence.

If that is the only admissible evidence in relation to who started the fight, he is a free man.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I am not saying either was right or wrong. You are missing my whole post.

I haven't convicted anybody. I clearly say you guys don't have the facts. Where did I say he had the right to shoot him? Where did I say Treyvon was wrong in whatever MIGHT have happened to get shot?

The Stand Your Ground laws aside. I am not arguing for Florida here. I am arguing Zimmerman and Treyvon and that situation.

Stand Your Ground laws are under review in a lot of states right now because of this, but that isn't what I was even talking about. Alaska just did their review last week. We are keeping ours btw. No changes to it are coming.

Based on FL law you don't know if he's guilty or not of it, because the facts have not been shown what transpired and only then can you draw a conclusion if the Stand Your Ground law was in effect or that Zimmerman will be dropped in a hole for the next 25 years.

To sit here and say Zimmer broke that law based on assumptions and your own biased interpretation of it, isn't anything less than those who have already said Zimmerman is guilty.

My whole point.

I think at this point any argument that he might not be guilty of ANYTHING is one not rooted in reality. Regardless of what may or may not have actually transpired, there is enough testimony against him and enough PROOF of his actions prior to the confusion of what happened during the incident to put him in jail. To sit here and act as if he will be brought to trial with rock-rolid physical evidence is just naive, if he is charged it will be on little more if any information than we currently have, and based on past precedent there is enough right now to convict him of something I believe. Definitely not murder as of now, but something.

 

[The30YardSlant]

in a court of law, the sworn testimony of Zimmerman is admissible evidence.

If that is the only admissible evidence in relation to who started the fight, he is a free man.

Not true, his sworn testimony would only be enough to prevent any sort of murder charge. His negligence prior to the actual incident, which can be shown based on 911 calls and his own account, is a very real aspect of this case.

Essentially Zimmerman's own testimony, in conjecture with the 911 calls, proves neglect. And if his statement is not entered into evidence, he may not be able to escape a more serious charge. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Don't think for a second though that showing he didnt start the fight entirely exonerates him.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

I think at this point any argument that he might not be guilty of ANYTHING is one not rooted in reality. Regardless of what may or may not have actually transpired, there is enough testimony against him and enough PROOF of his actions prior to the confusion of what happened during the incident to put him in jail. To sit here and act as if he will be brought to trial with rock-rolid physical evidence is just naive, if he is charged it will be on little more if any information than we currently have, and based on past precedent there is enough right now to convict him of something I believe. Definitely not murder as of now, but something.

there is zero evidence to warrant an arrest, let alone a conviction.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

in a court of law, the sworn testimony of Zimmerman is admissible evidence.

If that is the only admissible evidence in relation to who started the fight, he is a free man.

So could the Girlfriends claims that Zimmerman confronted and followed Trayvon and may have heard Zimmerman push Trayvon and start some kind of physical contact.

Before you say she is being Bias, Zimmerman and any of his friends that defend him are Bias also. We do know that cell phone records match the fact that the GF was on the phone around the time of Trayvon's death.


The whole issue that the SPD tried to get this to avoid trail by not making an arrest and dismissing anyone who contradicted Zimmerman's story. The SPD rushed to judgment testing Trayvon's body but not Zimmerman's.

Zimmerman from his friends claims said that Zimmerman himself thought that this would all just "Blow Over". So it seems like he wasn't expecting to go on trail or anything