News: Cowboys still bottoming out since Jimmy Johnson's exit; here's why

[CCBoy]

Not everyone cheerleads for the Cowboys 24/7, pal.

Listen, if one is insultive about roles, then just keep the comment to one's self. Not everyone who disagrees with sidestepping a stated reason, is humbled in what is being termed as ignorance.

If one wishes to disagree as to perceived intent, then take that to a pm and keep the board about discussions.



Back to my comment, not poor team preparations derailed Dallas last season, but the loss of Tony Romo and the top offensive producer in Dez Bryant.

That had nothing to do with competancy in drafting or roles of Jerry Jones or Jason Garrett directly.

But do carry on...

 

[Plankton]

No. The biggest home is the folks who live in the past and celebrate every Jimmy success while ignoring his big misses

Who has ignored his misses?

The genius of Johnson's draft strategy in Dallas was that he was smart enough to know that he was going to miss on a lot of picks. This is why he believed in the fishnet approach - throw a wider net at the effort (re: more picks), and you stand a much better chance at succeeding. This is why he was able to miss on guys like Rhondy Weston, Alexander Wright, James Richards, James Brown and Mike Middleton (Wright was the first pick of the second round, the others all third rounders who didn't make it out of their first training camp in Dallas). The Cowboys made over 50 trades in his time in Dallas - again, it was far more than just the Walker deal that allowed them to build the team. They used the draft, trades (Tony Casillas, Charles Haley, Thomas Everett) and Plan B free agency (Jay Novacek, James Washington) to speed the process up.

They also made some bad trades - the deal acquiring Terrence Flagler (and Daniel Stubbs) for a second and third round picks was a poor trade - Flagler never played a down in a regular season game for Dallas. The trade in 1993 where the Cowboys traded Barry Minter and Vinson Smith to the Bears for John Roper, Markus Paul and Kelly Blackwell was an awful trade - the Cowboys literally got nothing in the deal, and Minter was a good LB in Chicago for a number of seasons.

 

[CCBoy]

Who has ignored his misses?

The genius of Johnson's draft strategy in Dallas was that he was smart enough to know that he was going to miss on a lot of picks. This is why he believed in the fishnet approach - throw a wider net at the effort (re: more picks), and you stand a much better chance at succeeding. This is why he was able to miss on guys like Rhondy Weston, Alexander Wright, James Richards, James Brown and Mike Middleton (Wright was the first pick of the second round, the others all third rounders who didn't make it out of their first training camp in Dallas). The Cowboys made over 50 trades in his time in Dallas - again, it was far more than just the Walker deal that allowed them to build the team. They used the draft, trades (Tony Casillas, Charles Haley, Thomas Everett) and Plan B free agency (Jay Novacek, James Washington) to speed the process up.

They also made some bad trades - the deal acquiring Terrence Flagler (and Daniel Stubbs) for a second and third round picks was a poor trade - Flagler never played a down in a regular season game for Dallas. The trade in 1993 where the Cowboys traded Barry Minter and Vinson Smith to the Bears for John Roper, Markus Paul and Kelly Blackwell was an awful trade - the Cowboys literally got nothing in the deal, and Minter was a good LB in Chicago for a number of seasons.

Oh, there is a ton of genius in large amounts of misses...but who, perchance, was making all of those picks possible?

 

[AbeBeta]

What was shown was the actual assets obtained with the trade of Steve Walsh. Nothing stupid about it, just the facts. It's up to the individual as to whether the Cowboys did well, or didn't for that matter. Was it worth a shot at Junior Seau or Cortez Kennedy? As much as I loved Erik Williams as a player, probably not. But, Williams was critical to the success of the offense, and there's no guarantee that the offense would have had the same success without him.

So you believe Jimmy knew he'd get a stud with that third? If so, he should have known he'd wreck his car and never be the same.

Don't credit luck like it is genius

 

[AbeBeta]

Who has ignored his misses?

The genius of Johnson's draft strategy in Dallas was that he was smart enough to know that he was going to miss on a lot of picks. This is why he believed in the fishnet approach - throw a wider net at the effort (re: more picks), and you stand a much better chance at succeeding. This is why he was able to miss on guys like Rhondy Weston, Alexander Wright, James Richards, James Brown and Mike Middleton (Wright was the first pick of the second round, the others all third rounders who didn't make it out of their first training camp in Dallas). The Cowboys made over 50 trades in his time in Dallas - again, it was far more than just the Walker deal that allowed them to build the team. They used the draft, trades (Tony Casillas, Charles Haley, Thomas Everett) and Plan B free agency (Jay Novacek, James Washington) to speed the process up.

They also made some bad trades - the deal acquiring Terrence Flagler (and Daniel Stubbs) for a second and third round picks was a poor trade - Flagler never played a down in a regular season game for Dallas. The trade in 1993 where the Cowboys traded Barry Minter and Vinson Smith to the Bears for John Roper, Markus Paul and Kelly Blackwell was an awful trade - the Cowboys literally got nothing in the deal, and Minter was a good LB in Chicago for a number of seasons.

No the genius was knowing a focus on fast, productive college guys who didn't meet the current standards for position specs was going to net a bunch of great players.

He did something different and was able to draft really well on D because of it. That lasts a couple of years. Then people copy and you are done

 

[Plankton]

So you believe Jimmy knew he'd get a stud with that third? If so, he should have known he'd wreck his car and never be the same.

Don't credit luck like it is genius

I credit results. I credit those who can cultivate assets into additional assets. Based on your point of view, literally every single GM in NFL history only had success due to luck.

That's an interesting concept.

 

[CCBoy]

No the genius was knowing a focus on fast, productive college guys who didn't meet the current standards for position specs was going to net a bunch of great players.

He did something different and was able to draft really well on D because of it. That lasts a couple of years. Then people copy and you are done

Reminds me of what Marietta is attempting to do as well. That Doomsday D averaged 26.5 years of age. Kind of like the defense appears to be, now.

 

[CCBoy]

I credit results. I credit those who can cultivate assets into additional assets. Based on your point of view, literally every single GM in NFL history only had success due to luck.

That's an interesting concept.

That isn't what was stated at all, only cherry picked in an attempt to pass the point by...

 

[Plankton]

No the genius was knowing a focus on fast, productive college guys who didn't meet the current standards for position specs was going to net a bunch of great players.

He did something different and was able to draft really well on D because of it. That lasts a couple of years. Then people copy and you are done

I see that you didn't address the first part of it since it was a complete strawman that you threw out there.

Yes, he was a big proponent on focusing on speed, especially on the perimeter. He was actually more intrigued by quickness, because his 4-3 over front was predicated on off the ball quickness up front.

His success in drafting defense continued in Miami - it was his offensive selections that were completely dreadful, and killed his opportunities for success.

 

[Gameover]

People on here given jimmy in excuse because he was stuck with a washed up Marino, but nobody has given Jones any leeway when Tony Romo was lost for the season.

One moron said the Cowboys were so bad if he were a FA he wouldn't play for them unless they overpaid him. This was said after a bad season in which they lost their starting qb and were a season removed from a 12-4 record.#cowbosfans

 

[CCBoy]

I see that you didn't address the first part of it since it was a complete strawman that you threw out there.

Yes, he was a big proponent on focusing on speed, especially on the perimeter. He was actually more intrigued by quickness, because his 4-3 over front was predicated on off the ball quickness up front.

His success in drafting defense continued in Miami - it was his offensive selections that were completely dreadful, and killed his opportunities for success.

One might guess then, that his leading star didn't show him that the future of the NFL would soon be the passing game. Then Miami was blessed with some offensive linemen that got sanctioned by the league for poor team habits. Guess there was something extra that was left behind as well.

 

[RS12]

The three most underrated contributors to the Cowboys success in the 1990's were Bob Ackles, Dick Mansperger and John Wooten. All holdovers from the prior regime, and all gone from the organization by 1992 thanks to Jerry Jones wanting Stephen to branch into personnel.

I endorse this message. End of thread.

 

[CCBoy]

I endorse this message. End of thread.

Sorry, the cuts in administration and elsewhere in the organization, was a valiant and unsleeping job done by Jerry Jones, above all other jobs, to get the new Cowboys organization out of the red and functional on a yearly basis. Thanks to Jerry's unending work, the team did arise above it's very humble beginnings and back into the black that was removed from organization at the tail end of the Landry/Brandt difficulties.

 

[RS12]

Sorry, the cuts in administration and elsewhere in the organization, was a valiant and unsleeping job done by Jerry Jones, above all other jobs, to get the new Cowboys organization out of the red and functional on a yearly basis. Thanks to Jerry's unending work, the team did arise above it's very humble beginnings and back into the black that was removed from organization at the tail end of the Landry/Brandt difficulties.

No.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In 1989, JJ had 5 top 100 picks and 15 overall.
In 1990, he had 3 top 100 picks and 6 overall.
In 1991, he had 8 top 100 picks including 3 first rounders and 18 overall.
In 1992, he had 6 top 100 picks with 2 picks in each of the first 3 rounds and 15 overall.
In 1993, they had 5 top 100 picks although they traded their first at the end of the draft and 9 picks overall.

In 5 years, you are looking at a whopping 27 top 100 picks and 63 picks overall.

His success rate when you consider the sheer volume of picks was not that great.

 

[CCBoy]

No.

Pick up a volume of the 50th Anniversay of the Cowboys, or a book of that period about the Cowboys, and forget the folklore that has followed. I haven't exagerated a single point.

Jimmy didn't last beyond his normal four years at any place...why? Because he burnt up his teams pushing them with insult. His respect was arbitrary and all aimed at total success with full commitment. He required a very strong and motivational staff under him, to maintain commitments and focus.

Trying for complete power, is what drove the wedge between he and Jerry. He disrespected Jerry, and sold the Cowboy team out his last year with Dallas. The week of the Super Bowl, he was attempting to acquire a GM/Head Coach job with Buffalo. Then before cameras, he belittled Jerry in the post game celebrations.

Jerry was civil since then, but he had dignity himself. And that part was earned.

Ignore that if one wishes, but that is still ignoring the complete truth as well.

Margins for profits were much smaller back then. Jerry fought for team cap advantages and contracts for the entire NFL, since then. But he carried the fights due to what he learned in bringing the franchise back to life...Period.

 

[Zordon]

The three most underrated contributors to the Cowboys success in the 1990's were Bob Ackles, Dick Mansperger and John Wooten. All holdovers from the prior regime, and all gone from the organization by 1992 thanks to Jerry Jones wanting Stephen to branch into personnel.

@Risen Star this man doesn't appreciate 'built-in advantages'.

 

[jnday]

He made bad moves. Like trading Wisnewski. He tried like heck to trade up for a series of bums one year. No one bit so he settled for Emmitt Smith - that's luck not great evaluation. He gave up what turned out to be the #1 overall pick for Steve Walsh - he already had Troy. That's some talent evaluation!

Nobody said he was perfect, but he was one of the very best. The Walsh deal paid off well if I remember correctly. Another point to consider is that those bum players as you call them, could have had different careers in Dallas. Jimmy was the best at talent evaluation in the league at that time.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Pick up a volume of the 50th Anniversay of the Cowboys, or a book of that period about the Cowboys, and forget the folklore that has followed. I haven't exagerated a single point.

Jimmy didn't last beyond his normal four years at any place...why? Because he burnt up his teams pushing them with insult. His respect was arbitrary and all aimed at total success with full commitment. He required a very strong and motivational staff under him, to maintain commitments and focus.

Trying for complete power, is what drove the wedge between he and Jerry. He disrespected Jerry, and sold the Cowboy team out his last year with Dallas. The week of the Super Bowl, he was attempting to acquire a GM/Head Coach job with Buffalo. Then before cameras, he belittled Jerry in the post game celebrations.

Jerry was civil since then, but he had dignity himself. And that part was earned.

Ignore that if one wishes, but that is still ignoring the complete truth as well.

Ultimately, Jerry was willing to share power and Jimmy was not. Jimmy was all hubris back then for all of his success.

Breaking someone down can be a good thing in training to get people over themselves for the esprit de corps and motivated. Seems to me he was trying to get fired.

 

[jnday]

Pick up a volume of the 50th Anniversay of the Cowboys, or a book of that period about the Cowboys, and forget the folklore that has followed. I haven't exagerated a single point.

Jimmy didn't last beyond his normal four years at any place...why? Because he burnt up his teams pushing them with insult. His respect was arbitrary and all aimed at total success with full commitment. He required a very strong and motivational staff under him, to maintain commitments and focus.

Trying for complete power, is what drove the wedge between he and Jerry. He disrespected Jerry, and sold the Cowboy team out his last year with Dallas. The week of the Super Bowl, he was attempting to acquire a GM/Head Coach job with Buffalo. Then before cameras, he belittled Jerry in the post game celebrations.

Jerry was civil since then, but he had dignity himself. And that part was earned.

Ignore that if one wishes, but that is still ignoring the complete truth as well.

Margins for profits were much smaller back then. Jerry fought for team cap advantages and contracts for the entire NFL, since then. But he carried the fights due to what he learned in bringing the franchise back to life...Period.

Jimmy didn't respect Jerry as s football guy and he had no reason to. Jerry is a good owner , but his ego made him want all the credit with the football decisions. He can not be happy with the credit of owning the team. Jerry's ego has proven to be a problem over the years. Despite what you say, Aikman, Irvin, etc didn't want Jimmy to go, so his hard style had not turned the players against him.