Norm on KTCK 1310AM The Ticket: Roy Williams - cut him

[DallasEast]

Oh so just one game counts now?

What about the other 16?

This is really stupid.

It is stupid.

Please explain how ANYTHING Roy Williams did during the previous sixteen regular season games affected the END of the SEASON?

 

[Randy White]

Sounds like Norm got to the studio this morning and had no idea what he was going to talk about.

RW11 is always a sparkplug.

Got that right..

Off season, no Cowboys news, Mawrecks don't matter, Rangers have never mattered, what's hockey ?, and the draft talk don't began to heat up until after the combines..

He knows perfectly well that RW cannot be cut. Too much money to throw away.

 

[Randy White]

not to mention who we might have had with the picks we gave up..

Such as ?

Name them..

 

[jackrussell]

Slight exaggeration..

It hasn't been on blockbuster level, but he's been productive.

The problem is people equate his production w/cost. He never would've lived up to what was given up for him nor his salary. He came in w/the deck stacked against him.

It hasn't helped that he hasn't played well enough or consistent enough to justify either when given chances.

From my perspective, as bad as Roy has played, there have been worst players on the team. He's pretty low in my ranking.

Well of course they do...and why wouldn't they? I'm for keeping him next year and am hoping for the best...but if you bring in a player giving up what Dallas did and what they paid him, he's expected to make as much an impact (or in the very least somewhere close to it) as the compensation awarded him, and the Lions.

I guess the deck is stacked against Barber...and Carpenter too. With this kind of attitude looks like several of you are going to be happy with a bunch of overpaid underachievers.

 

[sonnyboy]

I think we need to restructure Roy's deal. I'm not suggesting we bring down the hammer on him, perhaps a little give and take to shorten the financial commitment we have to him.

I'm suggesting we shorten it, not reduce it. I want to give him a new 2 year deal that accomplishes 2 goals.
1) He earns the same money in 2010 that he was going to make, so he's more likely to accept it.
2) We take no cap hit in 2011 if we cut him at the end of 2010.

Not sure this is even possible with his current deal. If it was I could see it as a win win.

Money and pressure are somewhat taken out of the equation for 2010 for both parties.
Williams gets the chance to prove his worth and earn his place on the roster and 2011 salary.
If he does well he stays, earns a lot of money and gets a shot at FA in 2012 and a chance for a real big pay day.
If he does not do so well. We can cut him after 2010 with no cap hit. Perhaps we could redo another deal with a lower salary to fit his reduced role or he could hit the market and get what it bares.

 

[Randy White]

do you realize how good Romo played last season with Roy as a starting wr? In several games it was like Tony only had 1 starting wr since Roy went 2 or 3 games without a catch. Now i'm not gonna say he held us back to the point of not reaching those goals you listed above all on his own. But he did hold this offense back last season. It's no secret this offense started to get rolling the game Roy didn't play and had Miles start in his place.

Fact: the 2 games that Roy Williams didn't have a catch, the Cowboys won both ( Deadskins 11/2, Beagirs 1/03 ).

So, exactly how did he held them back ?

 

[AKATheRake]

If he has a bad training camp I say get security and use his head to open the front doors to Valley Ranch.

In the last 3 seasons, I have never heard of any player having a poor training camp under Phillips' management.

 

[Stash]

Such as ?

Name them..

Michael Oher went to Baltimore at #23 and looks to have the makings of a franchise tackle.

He'd look pretty good here right about now and would have been a nice help at Minnesota.

But these coulda should woulda things never go well...

 

[Randy White]

I would definitely disagree. If the Cowboys win one more game, that game is played in Dallas, not in Minnesota. .

If the defense would have held the Giants to one less TD in either game they played, the game is played in Dallas, not Minnesota.

What's your point ?

 

[Doomsday101]

Fact: the 2 games that Roy Williams didn't have a catch, the Cowboys won both ( Deadskins 11/2, Beagirs 1/03 ).

So, exactly how did he held them back ?

I would not say he held us back but did not contribute much. We should expect allot more from RW than what he has shown.

I do not expect Dallas to cut him but I do think he has to play up to the potential the team felt he had for him to remain beyond this upcoming season.

I have been one of the biggest RW fans and still am but I'm even a bigger fan of this team and we need RW to prove once and for all he can do the job at a high level.

 

[Stash]

If the defense would have held the Giants to one less TD in either game they played, the game is played in Dallas, not Minnesota.

What's your point ?

I think I made the point clear.

Roy Williams' lack of production and lack of effectiveness "held the team back" in 2009.

 

[DallasEast]

It's most definitely hypothetical. That's all we've got at this point since what's done is done.

For the most part, I agree.

I don't see where anyone other than you ever made the claim. You seem to be preoccupied with Williams' direct effect on the Vikings game - as it was played - and I don't see where anyone made that claim.

In looking at the sum effect of his season, I agree that he very much "held the team back".

And this fan has no desire to see a repeat performanmce in 2010, so if his play doesn't warrant starting, he shouldn't.

I have not made any claim. What I have asked is clarification of how Roy Williams held the team back from reaching its ultimate goal: the Super Bowl.

For teams to reach the goal, they must win every game in the playoffs. The only way teams can participate in the playoffs is to win enough games in order to qualify for the playoffs.

Let's stop for a moment. For the sake of argument, let's say that Roy Williams was the direct cause of all five regular season losses. If this can be considered as a given, then it would be equally justifiable in asserting that the team qualified for the playoffs in spite of Williams offensive production during the team's eleven regular season wins.

Yet, at this point of the argument, the team has qualified for the playoffs. Regardless of every negative, which can be attributed to Roy Williams offensive subpar production, the team is in the playoffs. Thus, whatever he has done to 'hold the team back' has not held the team back from reaching this particular stage.

The team beats Philadelphia in the Wild Card round. Again, for the sake of argument, let's add that Roy Williams did not do anything at all to help the team beat the Eagles. At this stage, it can be said that not only did Williams not do anything for sixteen regular season games, but he has also not done nada in seventeen games.

It's now the 18th game of the season. At Minnesota. Roy Williams has arguably 'held the team back' ALL season long.

Using the actual NFC Divisional game as a basis, my question remains, "Was Williams the cause of Dallas' offensive ineffectiveness against the Vikings?" My answer is no, but it's certain that there are those (not you necessarily) who would disagree.

 

[Randy White]

Chris Chambers had a more productive season in KC and he didn't need training camp to be on the same page with his QB..

faster than the smartest thought, stronger than the most factual argument, it's:

SUPER HYPERBOLLLLEEEEE.....!!!!

 

[Stash]

I would not say he held us back but did not contribute much. We should expect allot more from RW than what he has shown.

I do not expect Dallas to cut him but I do think he has to play up to the potential the team felt he had for him to remain beyond this upcoming season.

I have been one of the biggest RW fans and still am but I'm even a bigger fan of this team and we need RW to prove once and for all he can do the job at a high level.

This sums up my feelings as well and I think a vast majority of fans would agree.

 

[Jon88]

I think I made the point clear.

Roy Williams' lack of production and lack of effectiveness "held the team back" in 2009.

Apparantly you can't say that around here.

 

[Doomsday101]

This sums up my feelings as well and I think a vast majority of fans would agree.

Regardless if you are a fan of RW or not anyone looking at his production has to be disappointed.

I doubt anyone can say with a straight face this is what they were expecting or hoping for when we made the deal.

As one who is a fan of RW all I can say is I hope he can show what many of us felt he is capable of

 

[Randy White]

Michael Oher went to Baltimore at #23 and looks to have the makings of a franchise tackle.He'd look pretty good here right about now and would have been a nice help at Minnesota. But these coulda should woulda things never go well

Michael Oher would have been a great choice ( if they had gone that route ):

Who wouldn't have played until 2 years from last season, at the earliest.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Well of course they do...and why wouldn't they? I'm for keeping him next year and am hoping for the best...but if you bring in a player giving up what Dallas did and what they paid him, he's expected to make as much an impact (or in the very least somewhere close to it) as the compensation awarded him, and the Lions.

I guess the deck is stacked against Barber...and Carpenter too. With this kind of attitude looks like several of you are going to be happy with a bunch of overpaid underachievers.

Taking the one sentence out of context doesn't lessen the point. Which is simply this, there was no way he could live up to the compensation given up FOR him and given TO him.

Roy would have had to super human stats for him to rate even close to it. I think people were set up for failed expectations.

He was productive, but he could be better. Not one person in this thread is suggesting otherwise.

 

[Stash]

For the most part, I agree.

I have not made any claim. What I have asked is clarification of how Roy Williams held the team back from reaching its ultimate goal: the Super Bowl.

For teams to reach the goal, they must win every game in the playoffs. The only way teams can participate in the playoffs is to win enough games in order to qualify for the playoffs.

Let's stop for a moment. For the sake of argument, let's say that Roy Williams was the direct cause of all five regular season losses. If this can be considered as a given, then it would be equally justifiable in asserting that the team qualified for the playoffs in spite of Williams offensive production during the team's eleven regular season wins.

Yet, at this point of the argument, the team has qualified for the playoffs. Regardless of every negative, which can be attributed to Roy Williams offensive subpar production, the team is in the playoffs. Thus, whatever he has done to 'hold the team back' has not held the team back from reaching this particular stage.

But it has affected the quality of "reaching that stage". If they won one more game, they have homefield advantage. Two and I believ they would have eclipsed New Orleans as the #1 seed overall. Therefore Williams struggles all season long contributed.

Using the actual NFC Divisional game as a basis, my question remains, "Was Williams the cause of Dallas' offensive ineffectiveness against the Vikings?" My answer is no, but it's certain that there are those (not you necessarily) who would disagree.

And I don't see the validity of your point.

You're trying to cram his struggles into its' effect on one particular game. I didn't see anyone try to make that point and I really don't see how it's applicable.

 

[Stash]

Michael Oher would have been a great choice ( if they had gone that route ):

Who wouldn't have played until 2 years from last season, at the earliest.

Which would have been about the same contribution that the team got from the rest of its' '09 draft picks.

But I sure wouldn't let that stop me from acquiring the best talent that I could.

Oher would have been a nice alternative to have had during the loss to the Vikings.

As I remember, he handled Jared Allen pretty well when they met this season.