Not enough Elite QB’s to go around

[Flamma]

I doubt that you can say that. You're forgetting that w/ a salary cap comes a salary min. W/o the salary min, many players aren't going to make all that much. Trout makes what 45 mil/season now? Pirates complete payroll is like 80 mill.

Players that are not the best would definitely make less than in the current system.

You're just parsing situations. If the owners could make more money, we wouldn't have a salary cap. The owners are not sacrificing for parity. Parity is the excuse used so they don't have to spend money. Besides, you can have a cap minimum without a cap max.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

You're just parsing situations. If the owners could make more money, we wouldn't have a salary cap. The owners are not sacrificing for parity. Parity is the excuse used so they don't have to spend money. Besides, you can have a cap minimum without a cap max.

Exactly, and there are other sports that don't have the cap that the NFL does.

 

[glimmerman]

It’s all subjective . And I’m not attempting to diminish the impact Haley made . My overall point is I think that DL was stacked and could have helped us win a championship if we took away any one piece because the sum was greater.

The team was stacked. We should have squeezed another SB out of it.

 

[glimmerman]

Because that's how you can help your top QB become an elite QB. That's what I was on about. It's an outside the box way of talking about how QBs can be helped to become elite QBs.

IMO there has not been as many elite qb as some think. I never thought sheli manning was elite but he won Super Bowls. He was the luckiest qb. I do think brady is a elite qb. Looking at history most SB winning teams have A TEAM. A complete team that were lucky with injuries and depth. And when you get to the playoffs most teams even out and a little thing called coaching comes into play. We have had jason garrett for ever. We were out gunned once we hit the playoffs.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

IMO there has not been as many elite qb as some think. I never thought sheli manning was elite but he won Super Bowls. He was the luckiest qb. I do think brady is a elite qb. Looking at history most SB winning teams have A TEAM. A complete team that were lucky with injuries and depth. And when you get to the playoffs most teams even out and a little thing called coaching comes into play. We have had jason garrett for ever. We were out gunned once we hit the playoffs.

And what did we not have under Garrett? Particularly because Marinelli didn't want it for God knows why.

 

[glimmerman]

And what did we not have under Garrett? Particularly because Marinelli didn't want it for God knows why.

We had no coach. The guy is a dud wherever he goes. We had the best O-Line with a descent Defense. A QB that could have done it. And good RB and run game. I think marinelli refused to get the nose guard. I think JJ keeps his nose in it to much and apparently don’t care for the benifit of a true DT1. Many say until JJ hires good GM and HC and steps away some we won’t win it all. I just know in my heart if we make it to the SB we will win it. Those blowout games against the bills were my favorite games ever..

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

We had no coach. The guy is a dud wherever he goes. We had the best O-Line with a descent Defense. A QB that could have done it. And good RB and run game. I think marinelli refused to get the nose guard. I think JJ keeps his nose in it to much and apparently don’t care for the benifit of a true DT1. Many say until JJ hires good GM and HC and steps away some we won’t win it all. I just know in my heart if we make it to the SB we will win it. Those blowout games against the bills were my favorite games ever..

That right there, besides coaching, is what was sorely lacking on our defence. That was why we couldn't stop the run. That is what we excelled at under Jimmy.

 

[fairviewfarmer]

Back in his best days, Dan Marino was considered "elite". For all of his supposed "eliteness" over his lengthly career, he still only played in just one superbowl......

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Back in his best days, Dan Marino was considered "elite". For all of his supposed "eliteness" over his lengthly career, he still only played in just one superbowl......

I thought he played in two losing to Washington and SFO? Regardless, his defence wasn't good. That's why they lost in the SB.

 

[kskboys]

I personally liked the old system

It was unsustainable.

 

[kskboys]

Which is true, especially when you consider the nose guard we had then, and that's the one piece we haven't had that Jerry has ignored until Quinn got here. That was the mojo that we need. As I stated in a thread that I've just started, an elite nose guard means everyone's job is so much easier. If you have someone who can swallow up 2 or 3 blocks a play, then that makes the entire defence elite because the rest of the Dline and blitzing LB can pin their ears back at the QB. Then adding a Charles Haley into the mix means that now you have an elite pass rusher with that, and the other team has no chance at all. That's what we've lacked. We've had the pass rushers including DWare. Like I said, if we are going to have Parsons as the next elite LBer like Ray Lewis we are going to need a top nose guard (and hopefully, Ridgeway can be that). That is the key.

DJ Reader collapsing the pocket was a huge reason Cincy beat KC in the playoffs last year.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

DJ Reader collapsing the pocket was a huge reason Cincy beat KC in the playoffs last year.

Exactly, and that's what I'm trying to explain on my NT thread lol. And a top NT can help Parsons be even better.

 

[kskboys]

Back in his best days, Dan Marino was considered "elite". For all of his supposed "eliteness" over his lengthly career, he still only played in just one superbowl......

Which makes it abundantly clear that you cannot judge greatness by super bowls.

 

[kskboys]

Just say anything. To hell with the concept of a thread topic. So what if the OP was about the shortage of elite QBs in this league. Let's talk about the D-line.

The DLine play is instrumental in elite QB play. Completely changes how a QB plays. If your DLine can make stops, then your QB doesn't have to score on just about every drive and doesn't have to take chances. The only reason an average QB such as Eli won super bowls is due to being able to flub drives and get more chances. For instance, in 2007, Eli's D held every opponent in the playoffs to under 21 points. And that was entirely due to elite DLine play.

Points scored by Eli in playoffs, 07:

24
21
23
17

Those point totals get you a quick exit for most teams. Eli won a super bowl only because he was able to be average(Maybe even slightly below) and get multiple chances w/ the ball.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The DLine play is instrumental in elite QB play. Completely changes how a QB plays. If your DLine can make stops, then your QB doesn't have to score on just about every drive and doesn't have to take chances. The only reason an average QB such as Eli won super bowls is due to being able to flub drives and get more chances. For instance, in 2007, Eli's D held every opponent in the playoffs to under 21 points. And that was entirely due to elite DLine play.

Points scored by Eli in playoffs, 07:

24
21
23
17

Those point totals get you a quick exit for most teams. Eli won a super bowl only because he was able to be average(Maybe even slightly below) and get multiple chances w/ the ball.

Not only that, but, along with special teams, the Dline can make the difference between a long field and short field for the offense.

 

[kskboys]

You're just parsing situations. If the owners could make more money, we wouldn't have a salary cap. The owners are not sacrificing for parity. Parity is the excuse used so they don't have to spend money. Besides, you can have a cap minimum without a cap max.

No, you really can't. Cap mins and maxes go hand in hand.

Salary caps are important for league health. Every business has salary caps, though they're often unwritten. Any employer can only afford to pay a certain amount.

Don't fall for the rich guy hate thingie. Skews the thought process.

 

[JoeKing]

Because that's how you can help your top QB become an elite QB. That's what I was on about. It's an outside the box way of talking about how QBs can be helped to become elite QBs.

Dak can't be an elite QB as long as he has so many flaws in his mental game. Give up the idea that something can be done in other areas of the team to make him better. It's a fallacy to think all QBs can benefit from this kind of lateral adjustment on a scheme. Dak's flaws are his own and only he can correct them.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

In the NFL once you get passed the top 4-6 Elite HOF caliber QB’s the rest of the league has to build around what’s left. There’s never going to be enough Elite QB’s to fill 32 teams .

The good news is there is usually another 10-15 QB’s good enough to build around you can win with and contend for the playoffs with. And that’s really all you can hope for .

There is simply not enough Elite QB’s coming out in the draft every year to position yourself to try and land one if you don’t have one . They only come around ever so often. And even if you do land one it’s not a guarantee while it of course does make it easier to build around .

And why it’s silly to bash your QB if he’s near the middle to upper half of the league . This is what most teams have to work with.

agree. everyone wants an elite QB, the facts are they are hard to come by and teams will hold on to them with $500M contracts.

with that said, there are plenty of teams that make it to the superbowl or win it, with non-elite QBs and we just have to figure out what we need to make it happen. if only elite QBs make it to the superbowl, then it would just be the same 4-6 teams in superbowl every year for couple of decades.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Dak can't be an elite QB as long as he has so many flaws in his mental game. Give up the idea that something can be done in other areas of the team to make him better. It's a fallacy to think all QBs can benefit from this kind of lateral adjustment on a scheme. Dak's flaws are his own and only he can correct them.

No way am I saying that he's on the level of Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, or maybe Josh Allen (though, he does benefit greatly from a great defence). Behind those four though, it greatly helps his numbers if his defence is better. If you're having to drive 70-80+ yards every drive, that's not going to net you many TDs in consecutive games in the NFL. Defences get paid too. You need to have some short fields. If a good portion of your drives start at your own 40 or better, then your QB can have more elite numbers because he's not having to run so many plays in a drive, thus keeping the defence away from figuring out the pattern and scheme being used on a particular drive. That's where a top Dline helps Dak be more able to reach elite numbers.

 

[JoeKing]

No way am I saying that he's on the level of Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, or maybe Josh Allen (though, he does benefit greatly from a great defence). Behind those four though, it greatly helps his numbers if his defence is better. If you're having to drive 70-80+ yards every drive, that's not going to net you many TDs in consecutive games in the NFL. Defences get paid too. You need to have some short fields. If a good portion of your drives start at your own 40 or better, then your QB can have more elite numbers because he's not having to run so many plays in a drive, thus keeping the defence away from figuring out the pattern and scheme being used on a particular drive. That's where a top Dline helps Dak be more able to reach elite numbers.

Disagree, Dak does already benefit from a good defense yet can't lead this team deep into the playoffs. It's Dak himself that needs to improve if this team is to do better in the tournament.