Orlovsky: Cowboys set Dak up to fail on offense

[iceberg]

Mahomes and Josh Allen would do better here than Dak. I think Lamar's skillset makes it possible, and Herbert/TLaw have more arm talent that would allow them to compensate for some of the lack of separation issues better than Dak.

BUT, other than for Mahomes, that hasn't mattered in the playoffs, so the idea that it would compensate enough in Dallas is flawed. There's no logic to it.

Now go ahead and name the QBs you think.

i named mahomes cause its where you seemed to want to play.

you for some asinine reason seem to think if you keep asking me for an answer i'll change the one i have already provided.

example - i didn't say allen, did i? yet, here he is in the discussion.

people like you don't WANT to talk to others, you want to tell us what to say and think so you can attack it. its like you've got some pre-defined points you can't wait to make so you are in desperate search of someone to say something so you can reply with your canned answer and look intelligent.

not working.

 

[ChronicCowboy]

Dak had it all a few years ago and still fell short. His contract is completely bottlenecking the offense and people don’t get it.

The RB position is absolutely Jerry’s fault. But the coaching staff clearly overrated Dowdle’s development and Zeke was seen as a fix for pass protection and short yardage. The clear answer in hindsight is that the team needed to draft a RB but I’m hesitant to accept that a mid-round pick would be helping much.

Lamb is making huge money, Cooks is making decent money as well. Keep in mind, we’ll need to sign players like Tyler and Ferguson very soon on that side of that ball. If Dak is making 20 million less, you get a RB and a real #2 receiver.

 

[JeffInDC]

Well, Dak being the great leader that he is should have sat them down and said "Hey, let's structure this deal like Mahomes, Brady. Ya'll look like top notch negotiators who got a heck of a bargain. Go sign these DT's, LBer, RB, etc.. Once that is done I will sign on the dotted line making it all work under the cap and let's go try to win something!!"

Instead ... "I must get a record setting deal .... for the brotherhood". So, I got no sympathies for him either.

Obviously you have yet to grasp the fact that, when the CeeDee and Dak deals were done, Dallas GAINED quite a bit of Cap Space. So, your take is serious BS. The team had $$$ to go get guys signed that could've helped (see J.K. Dobbins). But, if it makes you feel better about your Dak sucks narrative, you accomplished your goal.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

i named mahomes cause its where you seemed to want to play.

you for some asinine reason seem to think if you keep asking me for an answer i'll change the one i have already provided.

example - i didn't say allen, did i? yet, here he is in the discussion.

people like you don't WANT to talk to others, you want to tell us what to say and think so you can attack it.

No what I want is for people to follow their own logic and substantiate the point.

You can't say "the team is good enough to win but not with Dak" and then not be able to name players who would have won here. Because if the point is "Mahomes and Josh Allen are better than Dak," then yea, I agree. But if the point is "this team would win with Geno Smith," it is an entirely separate argument.

I don't like to talk with people who speak in the abstract and without context, because there is nothing to actually argue with, especially when it starts with an attack on people who actually defend Dak.

 

[iceberg]

Dak had it all a few years ago and still fell short. His contract is completely bottlenecking the offense and people don’t get it.

The RB position is absolutely Jerry’s fault. But the coaching staff clearly overrated Dowdle’s development and Zeke was seen as a fix for pass protection and short yardage. The clear answer in hindsight is that the team needed to draft a RB but I’m hesitant to accept that a mid-round pick would be helping much.

Lamb is making huge money, Cooks is making decent money as well. Keep in mind, we’ll need to sign players like Tyler and Ferguson very soon on that side of that ball. If Dak is making 20 million less, you get a RB and a real #2 receiver.

agreed. we've now tied up way too much money in people who cannot do it alone.

*no one* can do it alone.

whether dak has had a steller team around him or crap the end results are the same. you can argue system, coaching or the like, but the end results in the reality we live and breath in are in fact, the same.

there is zero balance to this team. just a few shiney objects that are quickly losing their luster and in no way shape form or fashion ever be worth what was paid.

 

[iceberg]

No what I want is for people to follow their own logic and substantiate the point.

You can't say "the team is good enough to win but not with Dak" and then not be able to name players who would have won here. Because if the point is "Mahomes and Josh Allen are better than Dak," then yea, I agree. But if the point is "this team would win with Geno Smith," it is an entirely separate argument.

I don't like to talk with people who speak in the abstract and without context, because there is nothing to actually argue with, especially when it starts with an attack on people who actually defend Dak.

dude - your entire **** argument is absract and without context because it is nothing more than your opinion.

i gotta go grout tile or something man - find someone else to harass and blither in front of.

 

[iceberg]

Obviously you have yet to grasp the fact that, when the CeeDee and Dak deals were done, Dallas GAINED quite a bit of Cap Space. So, your take is serious BS. The team had $$$ to go get guys signed that could've helped (see J.K. Dobbins). But, if it makes you feel better about your Dak sucks narrative, you accomplished your goal.

could you break down the numbers then and illustrate your point of how we gained long term?

thank you.

 

[Redline360]

Hate seeing threads like these. There's tons of quarterbacks that this could apply to. Good or bad teams. No team ever has a "complete" team especially in the CAP era. It's up to coaches to hide weaknesses through schemes and etc. Don't get me wrong not all teams are created equal and far from it.

Now the Cowboys RB room is atrocious I'll give you that and we do have two rookie OLs. However statically they have held up well in pass protection. Think Dak is 10 or 12 in (time to throw) however our reciever separation is terrible. Lambs average separation is 1.9y(2nd worst in league), Cooks sits at 2.6y, tolbert at 2.7y and Ferg at 3.3y. Dak sits above Love, Allen, Cousins, Rodgers, and Mahomes is near the bottom on time to throw. Andy Dalton has the worst TT at 2.17 but just carved up the Raiders.


To me this is more on coaching. schemes, and lack of run support. Highly doubt two 1k WRs and one of the better TEs in football fail to get separation. Teams do not fear our run game and blanket Lamb and Cooks on every play. Now on the other side of the ball the defense is no help lately being Swiss cheese making the one dimensional offense(to thr majority) even more one dimensional if that is even a thing.

Dak has it extremely bad but looking at Daniel Jones. He has NOTHING besides that one rookie. Burrow has some killer weapons like Dak but his OL makes ours look like the great wall.

 

[Blackspider214]

He's spot on. And it doesn't stop at Dak. It goes back to the Romo days. But most fans don't actually want to have those conversations and just resort to trashing the player. Yes, both Romo and Dak have their faults but our offensive coaching, gameplan and approach is putrid. Romo played with Wade and Garrett every full season he played here. Dak's OC was Kellen Moore for so long, Garrett as HC and now Mike. Running antequated, stale, basic offenses that many players have spoke out on, being opposing players. We don't scheme our best players to be put in the best position to win and make plays.

This franchise would waste talents like Brady and Mahomes.

 

[iceberg]

Hate seeing threads like these. There's tons of quarterbacks that this could apply to. Good or bad teams. No team ever has a "complete" team especially in the CAP era. It's up to coaches to hide weaknesses through schemes and etc. Don't get me wrong not all teams are created equal and far from it.

Now the Cowboys RB room is atrocious I'll give you that and we do have two rookie OLs. However statically they have held up well in pass protection. Think Dak is 10 or 12 in (time to throw) however our reciever separation is terrible. Lambs average separation is 1.9y(2nd worst in league), Cooks sits at 2.6y, tolbert at 2.7y and Ferg at 3.3y. Dak sits above Love, Allen, Cousins, Rodgers, and Mahomes is near the bottom on time to throw. Andy Dalton has the worst TT at 2.17 but just carved up the Raiders.


To me this is more on coaching. schemes, and lack of run support. Highly doubt two 1k WRs and one of the better TEs in football fail to get separation. Teams do not fear our run game and blanket Lamb and Cooks on every play. Now on the other side of the ball the defense is no help lately being Swiss cheese making the one dimensional offense(to thr majority) even more one dimensional.

Dak has it extremely bad but looking at Daniel Jones. He has NOTHING besides that one rookie. Burrow some killer weapons like Dak but his OL makes ours look great

the fact we have 0 running game astounds me. while i do believe there are qb's that can carry a team, that's figurative in as much as literal. you still need a balance around you and that is what we are missing. but if you have that balance, to be the best and paid like it, you need to be able ot pick up that type of team and take it to the next level. inspire them to get better in game.

dak isn't that person. he's a good qb. not a great qb. he can do very well in a few games. then he'll redefine sucks the next. this has been his consistency.

2024 cowboys are a waste. no new coach to at least pretend to get behind, no real team with heart and fire and a coach who knows he's done not only for the cowboys, but maybe a career.

this is going to be a very painful year.

 

[Vtwin]

im not sure any qb could win with this team or last. but when i say things like "dak can't carry this team" it doesn't mean i think anyone can.

brady has proven he can carry a team if he has to.
dak has not.

now can brady win on this or last years cowboys team?

no.

but that doesn't invalidate the point that dak can't carry a team and that's what they're trying to do.

Exactly. They will grasp on and twist anything to justify their opinions. In this case you used the phrase "put the team on his back". This phrase has been around forever. It's always been understood to mean either a player stepped up and carried the team in a certain situation, or the player is a true difference maker who usually does elevate the team's success to some degree. It has never meant that the player is expected to win a championship on his own.

Guys like Mac here intentionally misinterpret the long time, generally accepted meaning in order to put words in your mouth and argue the strawman they created.

 

[iceberg]

Exactly. They will grasp on and twist anything to justify their opinions. In this case you used the phrase "put the team on his back". This phrase has been around forever. It's always been understood to mean either a player stepped up and carried the team in a certain situation, or the player is a true difference maker who usually does elevate the team's success to some degree. It has never meant that the player is expected to win a championship on his own.

Guys like Mac here intentionally misinterpret the long time, generally accepted meaning in order to put words in your mouth and argue the strawman they created.

they exist for ***** n giggles trying to get people in a catch 22 so they can pounce and run to the water cooler at work and tell people how smart they are yelling at stupid people online while all the people he's telling can't wait for him to leave so they can all burst out in laughter at him and make him wonder if he missed the joke vs realize he *is* the joke.

if you put a great team around dak, he may win it.
if you put a good team around brady, he's more likely to win it.

this is never absolutes until people like him need it to be.

not missed much in several years of a hiatus it would seem.

 

[Cowboys5217]

They set him up so bad they gave him a quarter of a billion dollars for it.

I would love to get "set up for failure" with that kind of deal!

Maybe Dak just isn't very good, and his faults cannot be hidden now that he takes up so much of the cap space.

He's paid like he's on Brady & Mahomes level. He needs to show that, and every Cowboys fan should demand that from him rather than keep making excuses.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

dude - your entire **** argument is absract and without context because it is nothing more than your opinion.

i gotta go grout tile or something man - find someone else to harass and blither in front of.

Would you like metrics?

Dak's EPA last year? OL win rates? WR separation? All of the actual data in the OP?

I'll happily give them all to you, but $5 all you'll say is "but did it matter in the playoffs." You people are all exactly the same. Allergic to numbers, context, and developed points.

 

[iceberg]

They set him up so bad they gave him a quarter of a billion dollars for it.

I would love to get "set up for failure" with that kind of deal!

Maybe Dak just isn't very good, and his faults cannot be hidden now that he takes up so much of the cap space.

He's paid like he's on Brady & Mahomes level. He needs to show that, and every Cowboys fan should demand that from him rather than keep making excuses.

that's the point - you think he'd be paid on what he has shown.

and it ain't the level he's getting paid on.

 

[iceberg]

Would you like metrics?

Dak's EPA last year? OL win rates? WR separation? All of the actual data in the OP?

I'll happily give them all to you, but $5 all you'll say is "but did it matter in the playoffs." You people are all exactly the same. Allergic to numbers, context, and developed points.

sorry - grouting tile - what did you just blither?

 

[Hadenough]

BS! That's what happens when you pay mediocre elite money. Dak couldn't win when he had Lamb and Cooper. A healthy Zeke and Pollard. And a very good TE in Dalton Schultz. Complete BS

 

[zrinkill]

Its hilarious that the Dak defenders are going after @iceberg ........ he is not even a Dak hater and is to classy to wallow in the mud with them.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

sorry - grouting tile - what did you just blither?

Good one. Feel better?

 

[Blackspider214]

He had to have seen that with the crappy running game yet signed for the money anyway. If you care about your craft, you demand they do more or you'll take your talents elsewhere. They offered money and he was like, "Okay "

Wait, you blame a player taking a $60million contract? Lmao. Sure thing. His job isn't to demand the front office to make moves or have accountability. That is the owner's job of his GM/front office. Oh that's right, they are the same person so yeah, zero accountability.

Dak and his agent's job off the field is to maximize his earnings in this very short careers players have vs their life expectancy. They did that. Regardless of what people think, pro athletes and really anyone working a job in general, it's about making the most money you can.

It's the Cowboys job to maximize the player's outputs by putting the best collection of surrounding parts, coaches, schemes and gameplans together. This isn't on the players. Their job is to execute it. But our schemes and gameplans are junk and have been since the late 90s.

A real offensive staff creates a gameplan/scheme that caters to the skill level of all players involved. But ours isn't. We have a one size fits all, generic approach full of curls, outs and long developing routes that take time. which we don't have because our OL is subpar. We don't use motion, screens, quick passes. Everything is straight forward and vanilla. Hence why we really only succeed against lesser teams because our talent just surpasses theirs.

But match us up against a team on our level or better, it doesn't work. How long have we been witnessing this? Goes back to the Romo days and before. We have been fortunate as of late to stack easy wins against Washington/NYG and usually split the Eagles series, which give us 5 wins off the bat. And there are enough subpar teams on our schedule where we snag those wins.