Paxton Lynch/Connor Cook thread

[CowboyRoy]

It is amazing. The thing is, there's no way to know for sure. I remember feeling anticipation/temptation when Jerry had the chance to draft Manziel. However, when he took Martin, my gut said he did the right thing. That's turned out to be right. When I watch tape of Lynch playing, my gut says this kid will be good -- but only as long as someone gives him time to develop instead of throwing him to the wolves. Granted, my gut isn't always right. Last year I wanted Melvin Gordon, and he hasn't worked out so well for his team, at least not yet.

That line is aweful in San Diego. And they really didnt give him the ball enough. They were also behind a lot and that scat back was a favorite of their QB.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

That line is aweful in San Diego. And they really didnt give him the ball enough. They were also behind a lot and that scat back was a favorite of their QB.

Gordon may have done great behind our line. He wowed me in college, which is why I wanted him. My second choice was Ameer Abdullah of Nebraska. He hasn't done so well with the Lions. However, it's a situation similar to San Diego. The Lions have deep problems that cannot be solved with simply a good running back. Abdullah may also have done well behind the Cowboys' line.

 

[Frosty]

Really, since when? That is news to me. A month ago Lynch was an early second round pick. If he is a top 5 pick then people are really reaching.

I agree, it's getting close to the draft an media is reporting his stock is skyrocketing because Goff Wentz are projected to go 1 & 2. Lot of disinformation being reported this close to the draft. Still only 3-5 franchise players

 

[Yakuza Rich]

How could they be saying that in 2014 we had Demarco Murray. And our pass rush was bad, its just that somehow we were top 3 in D turnovers. For my money it was controlling the game with the dominant run game that forced other offenses to be more out of rhythm and more desperate.

Im all for getting the next QB. Pass rusher are no longer a premium? And yah, Denver had two great ones and that was one of the big reason they won the SB.

And yah, if Romo and Dez are healthy we probably do. So what is your point on that exactly? Are we making the playoffs or building a championship team?

Just as many people were down on Murray heading into 2014. And one of the main themes is that once Sean Lee went down we were supposed to have 'the worst defense in the history of the NFL!'

And things turned out far different.

My point is that in the NFL, the future is just as important as the present. That's why 'building for right now' usually fails. Stuff happens. You're better off repeatedly making the playoffs and thus giving yourself more opportunities to make it to the big game instead of putting your eggs all in one basket. Even if the roster looks invincible, injuries, unexpected regression in performance, suspensions, etc. or just getting beat by a better team can all wreck you chances.

I think at this point QB is the way to go in the first round because odds are we are not likely to get this chance again at the QB position. We don't know how much longer Romo can go and I would rather have a player like Rodgers who sat the bench for a few years and transitioned seamlessly into the starting role than go 3-13 or even worse, go 7-9 and be forced to find a rookie QB that has to start right away.






YR

 

[CowboyRoy]

Just as many people were down on Murray heading into 2014. And one of the main themes is that once Sean Lee went down we were supposed to have 'the worst defense in the history of the NFL!'

And things turned out far different.

My point is that in the NFL, the future is just as important as the present. That's why 'building for right now' usually fails. Stuff happens. You're better off repeatedly making the playoffs and thus giving yourself more opportunities to make it to the big game instead of putting your eggs all in one basket. Even if the roster looks invincible, injuries, unexpected regression in performance, suspensions, etc. or just getting beat by a better team can all wreck you chances.

I think at this point QB is the way to go in the first round because odds are we are not likely to get this chance again at the QB position. We don't know how much longer Romo can go and I would rather have a player like Rodgers who sat the bench for a few years and transitioned seamlessly into the starting role than go 3-13 or even worse, go 7-9 and be forced to find a rookie QB that has to start right away.






YR

Im not you are talking to the right guy. I am all for drafting a qb for the future and for long term is pretty much my only concern. THIS year is about as meaningless as it gets for me as I am all but certain the Romo window is close for a SB. Team is not good enough and he is too brittle.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Im not you are talking to the right guy. I am all for drafting a qb for the future and for long term is pretty much my only concern. THIS year is about as meaningless as it gets for me as I am all but certain the Romo window is close for a SB. Team is not good enough and he is too brittle.

Nice defeatism.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Really, since when? That is news to me. A month ago Lynch was an early second round pick. If he is a top 5 pick then people are really reaching.

Well...a couple of months before that and it was a "lock" that Goff/Lynch were the #1/2 QBs, while Wentz was in the peer group of Cook as 2nd Tier QBs going in the 2nd round. These projections were based on film only, before the Senior Bowl, Combine, Pro Days, and visits. Even still, not like I'm advocating that Lynch is a Franchise QB, these mocks/projections get a life of their own every year a month before the draft by these fly-by-night hacks and then fans are shocked on draft day when a team's value of a player doesn't match up with what a dozen rubes with blogs projected.

I don't know if Lynch is going to be anything special or even average, but what he was able to do on the field (film), before all of the interviews/underwear Olympics/throwing the ball down an empty, put him in company with Goff at the top. He's goofy, awkward, apparently just a tad bit smarter than Bradshaw, Marino, and Jim Kelly on the Wonderlic, but "he's got guts..and guts is enough". I'll trust Dallas did their homework and if they take him, I'll be happy. If they pass, I won't get upset and question what they saw.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Nice defeatism.

Its called reality. The problem with the Cowboys is that is been run by people that think like you do. That every year we are just one or two players away from winning the SB and making desperate, one year fix type moves. Its time for somebody in management to wake up and realize that long term is the ONLY way to run a franchise.

 

[movaughn88]

Its called reality. The problem with the Cowboys is that is been run by people that think like you do. That every year we are just one or two players away from winning the SB and making desperate, one year fix type moves. Its time for somebody in management to wake up and realize that long term is the ONLY way to run a franchise.

The whole "reality" phrase really gets thrown around like it means something other than being pessimistic and fed up with Jerry (which is an understandable position). In 2014 we weren't even a few players from winning the SB, we were a few PLAYS from winning it. Last year we were many players (some of which were under contract but not on the field for various reasons) and many plays away, for sure.

But what decisions have been made in the last few years that were one-year fix moves? Building one of the best young OLs in the league? Fixing our cap and not overpaying for guys like Murray? Making the team younger? I certainly won't say the FO has been hitting on all cylinders, far from it. But the desperate moves thing is in this team's past, and it has been thinking longer term. I mean one of the worst recent past decisions (letting Ware go) was made exactly with the future of the cap in mind and getting younger.

Anyway, I'm excited for THIS season, especially with Philly doing lord knows what with their next couple years and no real threats in the division, other than I suspect the Giants will have a resurgent year.

To address the thread - I saw numerous interviews with Paxton this week and I really liked how humble and yet confident he seemed. It sounds like he is eager to learn and has the tools to do it. I like the idea of getting him by trading down.

 

[bayeslife]

Would anyone here be opposed to aggressively trading back into the first round for Lynch if they can get Ramsey or Elliot with #4? I'm talking about moving next year's first if we have to.

 

[jjktkk]

Its called reality. The problem with the Cowboys is that is been run by people that think like you do. That every year we are just one or two players away from winning the SB and making desperate, one year fix type moves. Its time for somebody in management to wake up and realize that long term is the ONLY way to run a franchise.

I understand the signings of Carr, and Hardy. Big moves, that didn't work. ,but with Romo in the twilight of his career, I don't blame Jerry for trying to 'win now'. I understand your opinion, although I think it is a bit extreme. Jerry and company have been pretty consistant the past few years in attempting to build thru the draft and and fill the roster with modest FA signinngs, There is some hit and misses, but the Oline is proof that the Boys are building the team the' right way'.

 

[Sydla]

The whole "reality" phrase really gets thrown around like it means something other than being pessimistic and fed up with Jerry (which is an understandable position). In 2014 we weren't even a few players from winning the SB, we were a few PLAYS from winning it. Last year we were many players (some of which were under contract but not on the field for various reasons) and many plays away, for sure.

But what decisions have been made in the last few years that were one-year fix moves? Building one of the best young OLs in the league? Fixing our cap and not overpaying for guys like Murray? Making the team younger? I certainly won't say the FO has been hitting on all cylinders, far from it. But the desperate moves thing is in this team's past, and it has been thinking longer term. I mean one of the worst recent past decisions (letting Ware go) was made exactly with the future of the cap in mind and getting younger.

Anyway, I'm excited for THIS season, especially with Philly doing lord knows what with their next couple years and no real threats in the division, other than I suspect the Giants will have a resurgent year.

To address the thread - I saw numerous interviews with Paxton this week and I really liked how humble and yet confident he seemed. It sounds like he is eager to learn and has the tools to do it. I like the idea of getting him by trading down.

Stop. Just stop.

We were not a "few plays from winning the SB". We were a few plays from possibly just making the NFC Title game. It's quite a leap in logic to state that if Bryant's catch is ruled a TD that we then would have romped to the SB title.

And people are sleeping on the Commanders for some reason. I hate to break it to some of you but the Skins aren't really your Danny Snyder dopefest anymore. They have a real GM in place that helped build two SB teams in Seattle and San Fran.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Would anyone here be opposed to aggressively trading back into the first round for Lynch if they can get Ramsey or Elliot with #4? I'm talking about moving next year's first if we have to.

My dream draft would be somehow getting Ramsey and Lynch in the first round and maybe K. Joseph in the 2nd round than a real burner w/speed in a later round. That would secure our DB's, our QB for the future and help us on offense with a WR that can make defense's think twice about giving safety help over the top to Dez as well as stretch the field to help open the running game up even more. It would also be helpful in one of Tony's biggest strengths...the play action pass.

Depends on the trade, but if we could get Ramsey and Lynch I wouldn't have a problem giving up a 1st round from 2017 to do it. I think both Ramsey and Lynch are special players that either won't be around in next year's draft or we won't have the chance to get them in next year's draft because our record should be better.

To me, the ideal situation with the future QB is to have a legitimately great talent that sits on the bench and seamlessly transitions to the starter role when Tony retires. Lynch has that type of upside. I just don't see it with Prescott or Hackenberg, both of whom may turn out to be quality QB's. And I still don't see how Wentz is ahead of Lynch, but that's another story.

If we draft Elliott, then we deserve all of the failure we can get. Only AP ran the ball better than DMC in the last 10 games of the year. And we just added Alfred Morris to the mix. Murray was a 3rd round pick and it goes to show, once again, that RB's can be found in later rounds of the draft. The RB position in itself isn't overrated...it's just that great RB's are consistently found outside the 1st round. So by draft Elliott (who I like as a player), we would be fixing something that isn't broken and that we already have money spent on and something we've found before at a much lower cost. I highly doubt we draft Elliott anyway, but if we do then it's a horrendous move.






YR

 

[jjktkk]

Would anyone here be opposed to aggressively trading back into the first round for Lynch if they can get Ramsey or Elliot with #4? I'm talking about moving next year's first if we have to.

No, because you, meaning the Cowboys, are attempting to draft your franchise QB, your QB of the future.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

And people are sleeping on the Commanders for some reason. I hate to break it to some of you but the Skins aren't really your Danny Snyder dopefest anymore. They have a real GM in place that helped build two SB teams in Seattle and San Fran.

San Fran was awful when McCloughan was there. It wasn't until Harbaugh came in that they started to do something.

That's what the league is about...coaching. The HC and the position coaches develop the players. The GM position in the NFL is the most overrated position in the NFL. I could go over so many instances of GM's that were supposedly brilliant, but then a new HC comes into town and they are no longer that genius. Just ask AJ Smith. Funny how the talent with the Chargers quickly eroded when Marty Schottenheimer was fired and Norv Turner became the HC.

The fact is that not one of the teams in the NFC East, including the Cowboys, have shown any capability of making the playoffs two years in a row since the Andy Reid era Eagles back before 2010. And the 'no longer a Danny Snyder dopefest Skins' went a whopping 9-7 with Dallas having no Romo and Dez, the Giants having a very limited roster and the Chip Kelly circus in Philly. And they got crushed, at home, against the Packers in the playoffs. A Packers team that limped into the playoffs and needed miracles just to get into the playoffs.





YR

 

[Miller]

Want nothing to do with Cook...not sure if this is in here

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11280/connor-cook

Speaking about Michigan State QB Connor Cook, an anonymous scout said "the person kills him."
"Selfish," the scout said. "He goes out too much. It's a tell-tale sign when your teammates don't like you, and I know they don't." Questions about Cook's demeanor have persisted for some time now. It's unideal for a prospect who will never draw raves for his passing efficiency. Another scout said "the owner needs to fire the GM right after they pick him if someone takes him in the first (round)." It's not outside the realm of possibility that Cook falls to day three. Apr 21 - 12:00 PM

Really like idea of Dak Prescott though.

 

[movaughn88]

Stop. Just stop.

We were not a "few plays from winning the SB". We were a few plays from possibly just making the NFC Title game. It's quite a leap in logic to state that if Bryant's catch is ruled a TD that we then would have romped to the SB title.

And people are sleeping on the Commanders for some reason. I hate to break it to some of you but the Skins aren't really your Danny Snyder dopefest anymore. They have a real GM in place that helped build two SB teams in Seattle and San Fran.

It's a bit of an overstatement and I get your point, but if 1 or 2 plays go differently in the GB game, we had already completely mauled Seattle in their house earlier in the season....so yes more plays were needed to be made. I don't want to rehash it any more than anyone else, but my point is there is a recency bias to last season. It was a "hot port-o-potty" smelling dumpster of a season, yes, but the team as constructed in 2014 was one that could certainly have won a SB, can we at least agree there?

No one could have projected last season before it happened. And even with a better backup, without healthy Romo and Dez we'd just be sitting here debating about the #18 pick instead of the #4 - we weren't going anywhere without 'em. I'm actually glad we went 4-12 instead of 8-8 now that its over with.

I'm not necessarily sleeping on the Skins. I think Cousins might regress, but they have had a solid D there for some time. If we can go 5-3 in the division, I think that would be enough. Just can't get swept by any of the 3.

 

[Sydla]

San Fran was awful when McCloughan was there. It wasn't until Harbaugh came in that they started to do something.

That's what the league is about...coaching. The HC and the position coaches develop the players. The GM position in the NFL is the most overrated position in the NFL. I could go over so many instances of GM's that were supposedly brilliant, but then a new HC comes into town and they are no longer that genius. Just ask AJ Smith. Funny how the talent with the Chargers quickly eroded when Marty Schottenheimer was fired and Norv Turner became the HC.

The fact is that not one of the teams in the NFC East, including the Cowboys, have shown any capability of making the playoffs two years in a row since the Andy Reid era Eagles back before 2010. And the 'no longer a Danny Snyder dopefest Skins' went a whopping 9-7 with Dallas having no Romo and Dez, the Giants having a very limited roster and the Chip Kelly circus in Philly. And they got crushed, at home, against the Packers in the playoffs. A Packers team that limped into the playoffs and needed miracles just to get into the playoffs.





YR

He was the one who scouted and drafted guys like Gore, Willis, Davis, Staley, etc. Yes, it took Harbaugh to put it all together but it was McCloughan that started putting the roster together that Harbaugh took to the SB. The guy is one of the best talent evaluators right now in football and very well respected. He also worked under Ron Wolf and has an impressive resume.

If the Jones family came out today and said they have decided to hire a real GM, McCloughan would be one of the guys I'd hope they call. He's the best talent evaluator in the NFC East right now IMO.

His first draft with the Skins was a success:

1) Scherff - good rookie year
2) Smith - led rookies in sacks with 8
3) Jones - OK rookie year but enough to allow them to let Morris go.
4) Crowder - broke Art Monk's rookie record for receptions in a season

 

[DBOY3141]

He was the one who scouted and drafted guys like Gore, Willis, Davis, Staley, etc. Yes, it took Harbaugh to put it all together but it was McCloughan that started putting the roster together that Harbaugh took to the SB. The guy is one of the best talent evaluators right now in football and very well respected. He also worked under Ron Wolf and has an impressive resume.

If the Jones family came out today and said they have decided to hire a real GM, McCloughan would be one of the guys I'd hope they call. He's the best talent evaluator in the NFC East right now IMO.

Very much agree. Skins are on the right track. To me they are still the team to beat. Cousins is solid and will now be in his 2nd year as a full time starter. Callahan will improve that OL. As you said the best GM in the east by miles.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

He was the one who scouted and drafted guys like Gore, Willis, Davis, Staley, etc.

They were all high first round picks. It doesn't take a genius scouting mind to figure it out. We scouted Terrence Newman as well

Yes, it took Harbaugh to put it all together but it was McCloughan that started putting the roster together that Harbaugh took to the SB. The guy is one of the best talent evaluators right now in football and very well respected. He also worked under Ron Wolf and has an impressive resume.

And it was all for not until Harbaugh came along.

Just like AJ Smith was a genius and then he got Schottenheimer fired and the talent on the Chargers fell off the earth. Or when Scott Pioli was a genius evaluator in New England and looked like an idiot in KC. Having Todd Haley and Romeo Crennel as HC's will do that. Or how Jerry was finding Pro Bowlers under Parcells, having terrible drafts with Wade and has now found Pro Bowlers with Garrett.

3) Jones - OK rookie year but enough to allow them to let Morris go.
4) Crowder - broke Art Monk's rookie record for receptions in a season

Jones ran for 490 yards on the season at 3.4 ypc. Morris ran at 3.7 ypc. Crowder was an afterthought in the Skins passing game as they have Jackson and Reed, both of which McCloughan had nothing to do with.

As I've said more times than I can count, for the most part the draft consists of players with virtually the same grade for each team. If a player is graded as a 2nd rounder by the Packers, it's likely he's right around a 2nd round grade for almost all of the other teams. The players then are drafted depending upon how the chips fall and it's up to the HC and the position coaches to know how to develop that player. Schottenheimer is an example of a great developer of players. And for a long time, so was Coughlin. He had great drafts despite having different GM's. He wasn't just lucky to be paired with GM's who were world class talent evaluators. Instead, he was a great developer of players and the GM's just happened to be there. Just like McCloughan. Nobody was raving about McCloughan's drafting when the Niners couldn't win. And suddenly they became a different team when Harbaugh got there. And when Trent Baalke thought it was all about talent evaluation, he learned the hard way when Harbaugh left for Michigan.




YR