People who's the better receiver of D. Jarrett, D. Bowe, T. Ginn, and Robert Meachem?

[The30YardSlant]

I have doubts about Ginn's size. I can't remember the last 175 pound WR to have a big impact as a WR.

I'd have no problem with him as a first rounder because he can be our Devan Hester, and guys like that can be worth a first round pick because of the game changing ability. I don't think he'll ever be more than a decent #2 as a WR, though.

 

[Biggems]

who cares about being a #1

The pats didnt have a #1 and won 3 SBs in 4 years.

The bears dont have a true #1 and they went to the SB last year


i understand the desire for a true #1...but TO and Glenn should be around for at least this season, and probably the next.

Gonzalez or Smith should be able to solidify a spot on this team and be a major contributor.

BTW...Gonzalez can also return kicks.

 

[theogt]

And yet, he consistently gets open, makes the catch, and runs away from people. How do you explain it? To give the excuse that he did it against lesser competition is not accurate as he had some of his best games in Bowl games or against top competition: Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame, Cal, etc.

Regardless of how he came across in tests, he has consistently produced in games. I'll take that every time over workout warriors who can't come up big when it counts.

I don't think he "gets open" and "runs away from people" quite so much. He uses his long arms and body to create separation, which is great. I'd prefer a receiver that can do that over a pure speed receiver any day, particularly when you have a QB like Leinart who can place the ball very well. I've said it before, but I think the Keyshawn comparison is perfect, and if he could guarantee Keyshawn's production for the next 10 years I'd draft him at 22 in a heart beat.

But we're not looking at him in a vacuum. When compared to Bowe and Meachem, I'd simply prefer their combination of size and speed. You can talk about college production, but I only consider the last 2 years of a player's college career. Too many variables are at play for the prior years to be meaningful. So, considering only the last 2 years of production, he's not that much more productive than some of the other receivers in the draft.

I don't think the "underwear olympics" are more important than "college production" or vice versa. College production is very important, but then again, there are guys that can be productive in college, but aren't quite fit for the NFL. Peter Warrick comes to mind. On the opposite side, there are guys that aren't very productive in college, that simply have the physical makeup to compete at a high level in the NFL. Pat McQuistan is a good example. He only had a single season starting, and only one year beyond that suiting up. Yet, he's being considered as a potential starting LT in the league, because he has the physical makeup.

So, in the end, I try to use a formula that weighs each variable (production and phystical attributes) such that the variance on each is about equal. And when I do so, Jarrett simply ranks lower.

 

[theogt]

who cares about being a #1

The pats didnt have a #1 and won 3 SBs in 4 years.

In 2001 they had Terry Glenn, a 1st rounder. In 2003 and 2004, they had Deion Branch, who was originally drafted as a 2nd rounder, but was traded for a 1st round pick.

The bears dont have a true #1 and they went to the SB last year

They had a high 2nd rounder in Muhsin Muhammad, who's averaged nearly 1000 yards per season over his career. But we all know it was their defense that got them to the Super Bowl. And it was their offense that lost it. Yet, the Colts offense, with its two first round WRs, won despite a lackluster defense.

i understand the desire for a true #1...but TO and Glenn should be around for at least this season, and probably the next.

Or you could say, that at least one of the two will probably get hurt this season, being as old as they are, and might not even be around next.

Gonzalez or Smith should be able to solidify a spot on this team and be a major contributor.

BTW...Gonzalez can also return kicks.

True, but do you want a guy that can be a solid contributor, or do you want a future #1 receiver that Tony can grow with for the next 5-7 years?

 

[NorthDalal]

Doubts about all four.

1. Meachem--Doesn't go over the middle and only had 1 productive year in college.
2. Bowe--big guy, nice size/speed ratio comes from a program that makes passing game players look better in college than in the NFL. Drops some.
3. Ginn--star among stars at OSU, Zuriel Smith sized at below 180. He must bulk up to play in the NFL, foot injury lagging on for 3 month is a giant red flag.
4. Jarrett--What part of the Mike Williams story doesn't apply here. This guy has every attribute of Mr. Williams including the SoCal holier-than-thou attitude that Reggie Bush had to (self-admittedly) adjust to in the NFL.The shock of not being able to separate from undrafted division 1 cornerbacks in TC is unpredicable at this point. If I knew he'd be as good as Keyshwn he's worth a #1 but there's no separating him from Mike Williams right now.

And my answer is Gonzales in the second. Tough, will go over the middle, great route runner, will work to better his game, along with Hurd, Austin.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have doubts about Ginn's size. I can't remember the last 175 pound WR to have a big impact as a WR.

I'd have no problem with him as a first rounder because he can be our Devan Hester, and guys like that can be worth a first round pick because of the game changing ability. I don't think he'll ever be more than a decent #2 as a WR, though.

Galloway, Coles and Moss all come to mind. But yeah his size is disconcerting.

 

[Aikbach]

Galloway, Coles and Moss all come to mind. But yeah his size is disconcerting.

Rocket Ismail weighed exactly 175 as a Cowboy himself and Terry Glenn is less than 200 pounds.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Rocket Ismail weighed exactly 175 as a Cowboy himself and Terry Glenn is less than 200 pounds.

and the common denominator of all those guys is blazing speed.

 

[Aikbach]

and the common denominator of all those guys is blazing speed.

And very good hands, sounds like Ginn will be fine if he runs good routes.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And very good hands, sounds like Ginn will be fine if he runs good routes.

I can see him being a beast in the slot in 3 WR sets.

 

[Aikbach]

I can see him being a beast in the slot in 3 WR sets.

I assume he is smart seeming he played quarterback, yes there was a supposed wonderlic letdown but he did command a rather complex collegiate offense.

I think he can be a versatile threat on reverses, trick play passes for sure and as an extra deep threat groomed to step infor Glenn in two years.

 

[Deputy493]

I'm wondering what Deputy sees in Donte' Stallworth that disappoints that I'm not seeing cause Dont'e is one fantastic receiver.

He has been so fantastic in the pros that the Saints cut him and received nothing in return after spending the 13th overall pick on him I believe.....and so fantastic that the Eagles did little, if anything to resign him.

 

[Aikbach]

He has been so fantastic in the pros that the Saints cut him and received nothing in return after spending the 13th overall pick on him I believe.....and so fantastic that the Eagles did little, if anything to resign him.

You mean traded, not cut, Mark Simoneau came over from Philly in exchange for Stallworth.

 

[Deputy493]

You mean traded, not cut, Mark Simoneau came over from Philly in exchange for Stallworth.

all I know is Stallworth was a disappointment to the Saints organization and he never lived up to his draft status, it seemed like the only times he had a good game for the Saints was when he played us, which is why the Saints basically let him go.....the point being he flew up the draft boards because he wowed everyone with his 40 time......I will take production myself.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

all I know is Stallworth was a disappointment to the Saints organization and he never lived up to his draft status, it seemed like the only times he had a good game for the Saints was when he played us, which is why the Saints basically let him go.....the point being he flew up the draft boards because he wowed everyone with his 40 time......I will take production myself.

hes not durable is what his problem is. when hes healthy hes one bad mofo.

 

[Aikbach]

hes not durable is what his problem is. when hes healthy hes one bad mofo.

A little bit like Terry Glenn in that respect.

 

[Deputy493]

hes not durable is what his problem is. when hes healthy hes one bad mofo.

correction, he is not durable AND he is very inconsistent are his two main problems, same problems he had at Tennessee.......he will have an awesome game, then you won't hear from him for 4 games after......with the Saints he had very few awesome games..........the fact that he is inconsistent and not durable should suprise nobody as that was his MO in college.......he just wowed everyone with his 40 time at the combine.....which is why I think many overrate workout numbers.......if workout numbers were everything (as those who hate Jarrett now seem to think) then Justin Fargus would be one of the greatest RBs of all time if you recall his workout numbers.......

moral of the story, workout numbers are overrated.

 

[CowboyWay]

And yet, he consistently gets open, makes the catch, and runs away from people. How do you explain it? To give the excuse that he did it against lesser competition is not accurate as he had some of his best games in Bowl games or against top competition: Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame, Cal, etc.

Regardless of how he came across in tests, he has consistently produced in games. I'll take that every time over workout warriors who can't come up big when it counts.

I don't recall him having a big game against Texas. Notre Dame has probably the worst secondary in ALL of college football. And Michigan, give me a break, did you watch that game? I have never, in my entire history of watching football seen a quarterback get more time to throw the ball than what Michigan gave USC. Even the announcers were in awe of it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'd stll rather see a CB or a "tweener" selected in the first round. Take Ginn's teammate in the 2nd round.

 

[Bizwah]

How exactly do you work on speed?

You don't care about his 40 times? Find me another all pro wr in the NFL with 4.6 speed.

Hines Ward and Anquan Boldin come to mind. Keyshawn never ran a great forty. TJ Houshmandzadeh, Mushin Muhammed, Marty Booker, are all receivers that didn't post great forty times. They're all pretty good. I remember Chad Johnson not running a great forty either....

I can't believe the posters on here that buy into the Jarrett hype.

I can't believe all the posters that fall in love with forty times only. There are many successful NFL players that didn't run great forties. There are many busts that ran fantastic forties.

The point is.....the forty is a tool. You can't simply look at a forty and tell me if that player will be successful or not. How can you discount what a player does on a field?

I'd take production over forty times any day, but I understand you can't totally discount forty times.