Possible QC news

[BrAinPaiNt]

Sorry, but Quincy Carter and Roger Staubach should NEVER, EVER appear in the same sentence again. Any comparison whatsoever is beyond laughable.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Sorry, but Quincy Carter and Roger Staubach should NEVER, EVER appear in the same sentence again. Any comparison whatsoever is beyond laughable.

He said that!!!!

If he can come back from the dark side towards the fuzzy gray area, he might have more credibility. It's when he says stuff like that turns his posts into the smelly stuff.

 

[joseephuss]

If I believed that average won games, or championships, then I could see how this would apply. I do not believe that average gets it done. I think that that is where the problem lies.

I agree. Quincy was average. There was a potential for him to get better just because he was young, but that went out the window when he was cut. I doubt he gets another shot to prove he has gotten better or not. I was rooting for him when he was here, but now I don't really care.

The problem in Dallas was that he was replaced with Vinny who proved over many, many seasons that he was no more than an average QB. Now Bledsoe is at QB. He started off his career pretty strong, but lately has played like an average QB if that. The hopes of Cowboys fans is that either Henson or Romo step up sometime in the future. Until then or maybe even when that time comes, Dallas is going to depend on developing a strong defense and running game to carry them to victories.

 

[Waffle]

So then... Waf, you don't see the simularities there?

I had to read it like ten times just to make sure I was really seeing it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I had to read it like ten times just to make sure I was really seeing it.

And your sure, even now, you didn't miss read that?

LOL

I'm just yanking your chain. People see things in certain ways. What can you say other then, don't ever do that again.

LOL

 

[blindzebra]

He said that!!!!

If he can come back from the dark side towards the fuzzy gray area, he might have more credibility. It's when he says stuff like that turns his posts into the smelly stuff.

He has fabricated every stat he's used to prop up Carter's play, he has ZERO credibility even if he did not dare to compare Q to Roger.

 

[kartr]

Kartr, I was a supporter of Quincy Carter, just like I am a supporter of Drew Henson and Tony Romo.

The problem with Quincy Carter was that he had a very serious problem handling pressure and he didnt understand that in the NFL, you were always fighting for your right to keep your job.

Quincy Carter was fine when he didnt have much competition and he was not criticized by coaches. It is when these things happened is when he unfolded and you just cant have that with a quarterback. I have written an article documenting how former quarterbacks have been treated in Dallas.

I am very surprised Carter didnt fold when Parcells arrived and rode him pretty hard his first year. I think part of that was that Parcells understands that you have to treat players differently, and Carter was a guy that he knew he couldnt constantly criticize, as opposed to someone like Roy Williams who is mentally strong enough to handle it (Parcells supposedly told Roy Williams he needed to stop being so hard him and Roy Williams told him to keep it coming).

I think when Vinny Testeverde was signed, Carter really digressed and it made it worse when he complained about it in Training Camp.

See the thing is, you have the old saying that "One bad apple spoils the bunch". This applies to Quincy Carter. See you had a small segment of the population that were never going to accept Quincy Carter no matter what he did. Maybe because they thought he never should have been drafted, or they thought he wasnt the answer and some even didnt like him because he was black. I go to about 3 games a year and me, my cousin and my brother almost had to knock some guys out for being total racists at one game in particular. Alot of these people got alot of air time on The Ticket because alot of the guys on the ticket never liked Quincy Carter and were never going to like him.

Quincy Carter has way too many Demons in his life. Some people can never ever truly get away from those demons. Whenever something negative happens in Carter's life, there is always a chance he will succomb to those demons and spiral downhill.

Katr, just remember, Carter was giving plenty of opportunities to be the starter. Jerry Jones hand picked the guy and told everyone he was this fantastic talent, which put way too much pressure on Carter. Even when Quincy cussed Jerry Jones out on the sidelines during the Cardinals game and Hutch took over, everyone thought Quincy was all but finished. But Parcells swooped in and opened up the competition and Quincy beat out Hutch on the field. Carter was too paranoid and scared of competition when Vinny Testeverde came in. He probably was mad because Vinny was one of Parcells' guys and treated Vinny like a son (Kind of like Bryant and Johnson). But it was Carter's responsibility to beat Vinny out and not worry about everything else. He had just helped take the team to a Playoff game, so those veterans were going to voice their concerns if Vinny was just handed the job.

On another note, I dont root for all former players. Some guys like Dewayne Goodrich you just cant root for. I actually think he is a good guy that put himself in a very serious situation, and like most people, Goodrich panicked and did the wrong thing and everything spiraled from there.

- Mike G.

I pretty much agree with everything you said, except that I don't think Carter really had a chance to be the starter in 2004. I read in the archives on this board that Dallas tried to sign Kerry Collins in April of 2004 to a one year deal to be the starter, but he insisted on a 3 year deal. That means that Collins would have automatically been elevated to starter status given his experience. Carter knew then and there that they weren't committed to him and allowed his disappointment to unravel him. He had been told that he was going to be the starter in 2004 based upon his 2003 performance. This told him that he couldn't believe what Parcells told him. I read the article stating that he was going to be starter and the article stating that Dallas had tried to sign Kerry Collins. Carter should have handled this disappointment better, but Bill should have known that this attempted signing of Collins would affect Carter badly(team chemistry). In my view, even though I a lot of respect for Bill as a coach, I feel he mismanaged the QB position in 2004 completely and every thing he did undermined what was accomplished in 2003. Had they not tried to sign Collins and not signed Henson, but instead signed Jeff Blake to back up Carter, Quincy would have looked at it as vote of confidence in him, and we would have had a very different season last year. Bill also messed up by not addressing the defense properly. Teams like Green Bay,Minnesota, Cincinatti,'Hawks had explosive offenses that would expose our defense was apparent to me. Parcells is great coach, but his personnell decisions often leave me shaking my head.

 

[Waffle]

He has fabricated every stat he's used to prop up Carter's play, he has ZERO credibility even if he did not dare to compare Q to Roger.

His real reason to prop up Carter I believe was pretty much revealed to me last month in post #118 of this thread. (and subsequently edited for content I might add)

http://new.cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26906&page=3&pp=40

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, except that I don't think Carter really had a chance to be the starter in 2004. I read in the archives on this board that Dallas tried to sign Kerry Collins in April of 2004 to a one year deal to be the starter, but he insisted on a 3 year deal. That means that Collins would have automatically been elevated to starter status given his experience. Carter knew then and there that they weren't committed to him and allowed his disappointment to unravel him. He had been told that he was going to be the starter in 2004 based upon his 2003 performance. This told him that he couldn't believe what Parcells told him. I read the article stating that he was going to be starter and the article stating that Dallas had tried to sign Kerry Collins. Carter should have handled this disappointment better, but Bill should have known that this attempted signing of Collins would affect Carter badly(team chemistry). In my view, even though I a lot of respect for Bill as a coach, I feel he mismanaged the QB position in 2004 completely and every thing he did undermined what was accomplished in 2003. Had they not tried to sign Collins and not signed Henson, but instead signed Jeff Blake to back up Carter, Quincy would have looked at it as vote of confidence in him, and we would have had a very different season last year. Bill also messed up by not addressing the defense properly. Teams like Green Bay,Minnesota, Cincinatti,'Hawks had explosive offenses that would expose our defense was apparent to me. Parcells is great coach, but his personnell decisions often leave me shaking my head.

All this assumes that Carter would have significantly improved and that he would have stayed away from dependancy. I mean, it's not as if Carter instealed supreme confidence or even showed the type of talent that would warrent such a commitment. I don't think, as a head coach or GM, you can afford to make those kind of assumptions. In the NFL, if you have a chance to get talent, you do it. I just think that your asking a great deal for anybody to bet a season on those kind of circumstances.

You could, of course, re-think this thing and say, had we shown Wright the same kind of support, he would have stepped it up and been our long term starter.

I mean honestly, how much sense does a move like that make if applied to another player in simular circumstances?

 

[blindzebra]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, except that I don't think Carter really had a chance to be the starter in 2004. I read in the archives on this board that Dallas tried to sign Kerry Collins in April of 2004 to a one year deal to be the starter, but he insisted on a 3 year deal. That means that Collins would have automatically been elevated to starter status given his experience. Carter knew then and there that they weren't committed to him and allowed his disappointment to unravel him. He had been told that he was going to be the starter in 2004 based upon his 2003 performance. This told him that he couldn't believe what Parcells told him. I read the article stating that he was going to be starter and the article stating that Dallas had tried to sign Kerry Collins. Carter should have handled this disappointment better, but Bill should have known that this attempted signing of Collins would affect Carter badly(team chemistry). In my view, even though I a lot of respect for Bill as a coach, I feel he mismanaged the QB position in 2004 completely and every thing he did undermined what was accomplished in 2003. Had they not tried to sign Collins and not signed Henson, but instead signed Jeff Blake to back up Carter, Quincy would have looked at it as vote of confidence in him, and we would have had a very different season last year. Bill also messed up by not addressing the defense properly. Teams like Green Bay,Minnesota, Cincinatti,'Hawks had explosive offenses that would expose our defense was apparent to me. Parcells is great coach, but his personnell decisions often leave me shaking my head.

We NEVER made an offer to Collins, stop freaking making crap up.

Cite one credible source for this, your Henson workout story, the Texans begging us nonsense, or anything else you post.

 

[kartr]

I'm not surprised, WG. You know how it goes. Any player's shot at the HOF exponentially increases once he signs with your team.

Especially in Washington.

But yeah, that QB carousel in Chicago..how many years has it been?

since McMahon?

Things can always be worse, I guess.

Which is exactly my point about Bledsoe? In my view he had a better team around him than Vinny did last year and yet played marginally better, yet some here think he's a upgrade over Vinny and Quincy. Well, Quincy has beaten both Vinny and Bledsoe head to head, he's also beaten Steve McNair,Jeff Garcia twice, Joey Harrington(1st round qb),Kurt Warner,McNabb,Jake Delhomme,Kerry Collins, 2 out three times, yet they think he's the worst qb we've ever had. Go figure.

 

[blindzebra]

Which is exactly my point about Bledsoe? In my view he had a better team around him than Vinny did last year and yet played marginally better, yet some here think he's a upgrade over Vinny and Quincy. Well, Quincy has beaten both Vinny and Bledsoe head to head, he's also beaten Steve McNair,Jeff Garcia twice, Joey Harrington(1st round qb),Kurt Warner,McNabb,Jake Delhomme,Kerry Collins, 2 out three times, yet they think he's the worst qb we've ever had. Go figure.

They were not playing one on one now were they?

 

[kartr]

Last I checked, Quincy Carter isn't a Cowboy anymore. He had nearly three years to assert himself as the team's QB and an owner fully behind him while he was here. Unfortunately, he ended up making mistakes and his personal problems contributed to his demise in Dallas.

He's not the Anti-Christ, nor is he this All-Pro or even a Pro-Bowl type QB who was surrounded by a bad team. He was average at best and failed to capitalize on the opportunities he was given, period. He's currently out of the NFL and attempting to rectify whatever personal problems, addictions, disorders, etc. he still may have.

This might be a silly thought, but maybe we should just leave the guy alone and worry about the QBs that are actually still on the team.

Because the qb's on this team aren't any good and Quincy is still available until the Bucs get their cap problems resolved. So times a wastin'.

 

[kartr]

I've heard many on this board and others, make this claim. I saw a quote, back when news of QCs absence from the Jets first broke, (from his agent I believe) that claimed he had BP disorder. The one thing I've never seen or heard is substantiation of this fact. Please post any credible source that supports the claim he been diagonosed with BP disorder and I can re-evaluate. Until then, I think I have to look at this from a perspective of face value.

Regardless, QC is done and gone. What difference does it matter what I may think of him or anybody? It's Bledsoe, Henson and Romo now.

That's what scarces us. The devil you don't know might be worse than the one you do know.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's what scarces us. The devil you don't know might be worse than the one you do know.

They can do no worse then QC IMO. Bledsoe is not my ideal QB but he should be able to post simular numbers, at worst. Henson and Romo have it all in front of them. They both have an opportunity to come in and win a job, in the right circumstances.

For what it's worth, I was in the very slim minority last year. I wanted us to take a QB. We did not. I wanted us to consider taking Lefty. We did not. The dye is cast and were in it now, for better or worse. I don't know what will come out of this trio of QBs but I don't think that it can be worse then 99-04.

 

[kartr]

boy that one flew over your head...the sales comment was a jab, not a statement me of knowing anything mroe than anyone else...

as for Henson, when you actually get anything factually right in regards to the history of it, maybe we can discuss it...finally, its kind of the pot calling the kettle black in regards to any work mechanically when you compare anyone to Carter, because Wade Wilson had to spend extensive time with QC just to try and get him to throw a spiral...or did you forget that?

David

But did you forget that Carter actually started and finished games in his rookie year and won games against the likes of Kerry Collins and Jeff Garcia, you know, playoff QB's, while Henson was pulled after 1 half after playing against the likes of Jonathan Quinn and Craig Krenzel. Carter actually won offensive player of the week against the Niners:
QB RATING:
CARTER - 118
GARCIA - 96.7

What did Henson win in 2004? Goat of the week.

 

[jobberone]

All very good info. Not calling you out, once again.

Basically, not questioning the statistics. Asking if anybody will post a credible source that diffinatively states QC is afflicted with BP Disorder. Until such time, I will evaluate this very none relivant issue (where the Cowboys are concerned) on face value.

ABQ I don't know anyone has substantiated it. The fact he's in a rehab center or reported to be lends credence to at least the fact he has a substance abuse problem.

As I said the comorbidity of an affective disorder (depression) or being bipolar are both about 30% or more with substance abuse.

And it's not always easy to diagnose someone as bipolar. Without a frank manic episode then it's hard to say someone with depression doesn't have a form of bipolar disease that presents as just unipolar depression. So QC could have been informed it was possible he was bipolar or that there was a high liklihood. If he has a near relative that carries the diagnosis such as a parent then the odds increase. Often patients with substance abuse are routinely put on medications such as Trileptal as a "mood stabilizer" which helps with the depression whatever the cause and will often treat undiagnosed or unrecognized bipolar disease as well. They are often treated with antidepressants as well. Many also get something for generalized anziety with a low dose benzodiazepine even if one of their drugs of choice are benzos.

Without having his chart, talking to his docs and counselors, then his particular situation is private and we are just speculating. I wasn't just concerned with QC as I don't have an agenda for him other than to be relatively supportive as I would anyone with his problem.

Not everyone who has a substance abuse disorder is depressed whether affective or bipolar. It's just extremely common. And if they didn't start out being depressed then the consequences and stress of abusing usually catches up and they get depressed.

I can't answer your very legitimate question and I wasn't offended. Your point is well taken. We don't know unless there is someone here with inside information which I suspect they would keep to themselves out of respect for Quincy.

 

[kartr]

boy that one flew over your head...the sales comment was a jab, not a statement me of knowing anything mroe than anyone else...

as for Henson, when you actually get anything factually right in regards to the history of it, maybe we can discuss it...finally, its kind of the pot calling the kettle black in regards to any work mechanically when you compare anyone to Carter, because Wade Wilson had to spend extensive time with QC just to try and get him to throw a spiral...or did you forget that?

David

Hey, I like your sig. Henson in the chair in 2005, don't you mean Henson on the bench.

 

[jterrell]

Lot of truth in that.

Even more truth to the fact that guys who didn't want him as our starting QB can't even wish the guy a decent life. They are so wrapped up in their vitriole for Carter that every Carter post they make is negative on top of negative. Nothing nice if ever said unless it a pat on the back to another Carter basher or complete sarcasm.

Carter has been diagnosed by professionals as having bi-polar issues. The guy has problems period. He spoke openly of hoping he could get back on this team right up until he signed with the Jets. He didn't take any huge verbal shots at the team even tho many other players would have. He is a drug addict and mentally unstavle guy who can not be counted on in the NFL but he isn't a Terrell Owens type scumbag who deserves all of this hate.

He was at best an average starting QB. No crime there. So was Hogeboom and alot of other guys we have started over the years. I dotn want him back but watching supposedly mature folks bash someone with an illness for no real reason is just sad.

If someone makes a Shante Carver thread I am not going to read it. Its that simple. I view the guy as a waste of a pick much less God-given talent. I ahve no need to write line after line ripping him. I may not wish him luck but I certainly wish nothing bad upon him at all. Not sure why those who supposedly care less about Carter can't take this tact. Guess they care more than they are willing to admit huh?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But did you forget that Carter actually started and finished games in his rookie year and won games against the likes of Kerry Collins and Jeff Garcia, you know, playoff QB's, while Henson was pulled after 1 half after playing against the likes of Jonathan Quinn and Craig Krenzel. Carter actually won offensive player of the week against the Niners:
QB RATING:
CARTER - 118
GARCIA - 96.7

What did Henson win in 2004? Goat of the week.

You have to context this against the fact that VT was available to play where as , in 2001, we had Stoerner, an injured Wright and Leaf as a late signing, I believe.