QB Stats Through Two Years

[Denim Chicken]

Credit for what? Last year was awful.

Most elite young quarterbacks inherit a crap storm if they get to start. Like Aikman did here.

Most don't start. They watch and learn for a while, then begin.

Dak walked onto a team built to win a championship, at least offensively. Dallas solved the Joseph Randle problem with Zeke, so Romo could take one last shot. Dak got to take that shot.

I"m just destroying the argument of "best two years to start ever" compared to the great quarterbacks, who didn't have this much ammo when they began.

Well you can take Witten out of the equation since he was on the end of his career.

So the question is, have any rookie QBs entered into a situation with a great oline and a great RB?

And since Dak had mediocre receivers you could swap the a great RB with a team that had better WRs.

So lets see what Mahomes does this year. They have the #1 RB in yards, an above average Oline and way better receivers than Dak has ever had, plus a great receiving TE.

Think he'll beat Dak's rookie season?

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Credit for what? Last year was awful.

Most elite young quarterbacks inherit a crap storm if they get to start. Like Aikman did here.

Most don't start. They watch and learn for a while, then begin.

Dak walked onto a team built to win a championship, at least offensively. Dallas solved the Joseph Randle problem with Zeke, so Romo could take one last shot. Dak got to take that shot.

I"m just destroying the argument of "best two years to start ever" compared to the great quarterbacks, who didn't have this much ammo when they began.

It’s hard to quantify. Having said that, he probably did have the best offense that a rookie QB ever got to play with. Roethlisberger had four Pro Bowlers (2 All-Pros), Marino had four and two, compared to Dak’s five and four. Is there anyone else to even consider? Most rookie QBs before 1980 weren’t even allowed to start, almost like a rule.

 

[erod]

It’s hard to quantify. Having said that, he probably did have the best offense that a rookie QB ever got to play with. Roethlisberger had four Pro Bowlers (2 All-Pros), Marino had four and two, compared to Dak’s five and four. Is there anyone else to even consider? Most rookie QBs before 1980 weren’t even allowed to start, almost like a rule.

That's true. And this team was built for the run game, so he didn't have to carry the water. When he had to last year, it was ugly.

And that's OK. It's where he goes now from here. It's his passing abilities that concern me, not him in general. He can handle the pressures and requirements of the job otherwise.

He has to become a pocket quarterback for this to work. Pure and simple.

 

[erod]

Well you can take Witten out of the equation since he was on the end of his career.

So the question is, have any rookie QBs entered into a situation with a great oline and a great RB?

And since Dak had mediocre receivers you could swap the a great RB with a team that had better WRs.

Witten caught 69 passes that year. He was Dak's favorite target. He was still in the top 10 tight ends in football.

Romo made Dez, Beasley, and Williams look like an elite group. That's what elite quarterbacks do.

Now, we'll see if Dak can throw from the pocket to receivers downfield. This season, he either will or he won't.

 

[Rayman70]

Yet ALL we hear is how Dak can't throw the deep ball or with accuracy. The above stats totally debunk and shatter the notion. Great post/thread.

 

[Ken]

This bears repeating as well...

Dak before Zeke susp. & Tyron injury:
2,013 TOTAL YDS, 20 TOTAL TDS, 4 INT

Extrapolated over the entire 2017 season:
4,026 TOTAL YDS, 40 TOTAL TDS, 8 INT

But Dak is not allowed to have any help. He has to also play with only 10 players on offense, so say the experts.

 

[erod]

I mean I wouldn’t make the argument it’s the best 2 year start ever either.

I just think Dak deserves credit for the long stretches when he did in fact play well. And let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I do give him credit for that. I really like him. I'm glad as hell we aren't dealing with what they are in 10 other NFL cities.

I just don't get this insistence on anointing him as a great QB already. Your eyes tell you he's not. He has a LONG way to go. My concern rests in his throwing motion and ability.

If I see him consistently rip some throws from the pocket into tight windows, I'm good. But it can't be now and again. It's got to be with confidence and regularity.

People here think I hate the guy. I don't at all. I just don't care what the Romo-hating cultists think about anything.

We'll know plenty by Thanksgiving.

 

[cowboyskid29]

This bears repeating as well...

Dak before Zeke susp. & Tyron injury:
2,013 TOTAL YDS, 20 TOTAL TDS, 4 INT

Extrapolated over the entire 2017 season:
4,026 TOTAL YDS, 40 TOTAL TDS, 8 INT

Extrapolate his last 8 starts over an entire season.

3,336 TOTAL YDS, 16 TOTAL TDS, 18 INT

 

[erod]

Yet ALL we hear is how Dak can't throw the deep ball or with accuracy. The above stats totally debunk and shatter the notion. Great post/thread.

All quarterbacks can throw a deep ball down the sideline. Big deal. Sometimes you complete them, sometimes you don't. Big deal.

That's never been the argument. It's about throws deep down the middle, which he avoids like the Bubonic Plague.

 

[Rayman70]

All quarterbacks can throw a deep ball down the sideline. Big deal. Sometimes you complete them, sometimes you don't. Big deal.

That's never been the argument. It's about throws deep down the middle, which he avoids like the Bubonic Plague.

Maybe so..but he aint perfect. If you want perfect you won't find that. He's doomed to never meet the standards you have set. That said, I am willing to bank on he and Gallup hooking up down the seam several times this year. Maybe that will satisfy you a bit. Time will tell.

 

[lostar2009]

Not technically. I used Staubach’s 3rd & 5th seasons since he missed a lot of time in ‘69, ‘70 & ‘72. Tom Brady also didn’t play his rookie year, etc.

But for the most part their first two years starting?

 

[lukin2006]

Those stats can not be right ... I heard their is a QB in Philadelphia that is super man/Roger Staubauch/Tom Brady and Joe Montana all in 1 package? It was like he was built by 3d printer to be the perfect QB specimen.

 

[Future]

There isn’t a maximum capacity to the list. If you feel like doing the research, feel free to add whomever you’d like. Makes no difference to me other than further showing how well Dak compares to other great QBs.

Total yards (rushing & passing) through first two full(ish) seasons as starter:

D Prescott: 7,603
Luck: 8.828
R Wilson: 7,503
R Tannehill: 7,656
C Wentz: 7,527 (30 games)
M Stafford: 7,491 (26 games)
C Kaepernick: 7,729
K Cousins: 9,119

These are Dak's contemporaries and we can go back and forth for eternity about who the better players are, but that's irrelevant. Are you going to put Ryan Tannehill in the same conversation as Dan Marino? Is Colin Kaepernick a peer of Joe Montana? All of these guys compare to quarterbacks who played 30 years ago if you look at volume numbers and ignore the fact that the eras are completely different. But by saying that Dak compares to all of them, you're also saying that the guys on the above list do too, which means that the comparison doesn't set Dak apart from his contemporaries and grossly skews quarterback play today in general.

Dak, as good as he is, is a fairly middle of the road contemporary quarterback in overall production, and this list doesn't even include the likes of Matt Ryan, who took a couple of years to become prolific, or Goff, Mahomes, Watson and Garoppolo who could very well surpass - by a long shot - Daks' first two years.

 

[HungryLion]

Total yards (rushing & passing) through first two full(ish) seasons as starter:

D Prescott: 7,603
Luck: 8.828
R Wilson: 7,503
R Tannehill: 7,656
C Wentz: 7,527 (30 games)
M Stafford: 7,491 (26 games)
C Kaepernick: 7,729
K Cousins: 9,119

These are Dak's contemporaries and we can go back and forth for eternity about who the better players are, but that's irrelevant. Are you going to put Ryan Tannehill in the same conversation as Dan Marino? Is Colin Kaepernick a peer of Joe Montana? All of these guys compare to quarterbacks who played 30 years ago if you look at volume numbers and ignore the fact that the eras are completely different. But by saying that Dak compares to all of them, you're also saying that the guys on the above list do too, which means that the comparison doesn't set Dak apart from his contemporaries and grossly skews quarterback play today in general.

Dak, as good as he is, is a fairly middle of the road contemporary quarterback in overall production, and this list doesn't even include the likes of Matt Ryan, who took a couple of years to become prolific, or Goff, Mahomes, Watson and Garoppolo who could very well surpass - by a long shot - Daks' first two years.

Fair points.

Although total yardage is the worst way to evaluate Dak’s play, considering the offense he plays in.

He is not going to be a drop back and throw the ball 40 times a game type of guy.

Success for him will be high completion percentage, YPA and having a really good TD/Int ratio.

His YPA and completion percentage drop last season is definitely where he needs to improve, to be where we want him to be.

There are some really good quarterbacks on that list you just showed and some not quite as good. We shall see what happens going forward.

2 years is too soon to give Dak a final eval.

 

[Future]

Fair points.

Although total yardage is the worst way to evaluate Dak’s play, considering the offense he plays in.

He is not going to be a drop back and throw the ball 40 times a game type of guy.

Success for him will be high completion percentage, YPA and having a really good TD/Int ratio.

His YPA and completion percentage drop last season is definitely where he needs to improve, to be where we want him to be.

There are some really good quarterbacks on that list you just showed and some not quite as good. We shall see what happens going forward.

2 years is too soon to give Dak a final eval.

I agree with all of this, and I like Dak. I just can't stand the desire to try to shoehorn him into a class of QBs that he clearly doesn't belong in right now.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Again, I will respectfully disagree. If you look at Red Zone Scoring Percentage stats, you'll see that there are many teams that struggle in the red zone. If they had the option to score an "easy" TD with a QB keeper, they would take it no questions asked.

Yep, the Pats do it reguraly.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Dak is a product of the team around him.

Meanwhile Carson Wentz would have been MVP if not for his injury. Despite the fact that his team won the Super Bowl without him.

Out of curiosity. What tells you that Dak is a product of his team, “more than a lot of other guys?”

Actually Watson would have been MVP had he not got hurt....... Another fail for Wentz lovers

 

[Batman1980]

I always suspected he was a better QB than Joe Montana or Tom Brady - now we have definitive proof.

Even more telling, he's a better QB than Terry Bradshaw and Big Ben!

 

[Kevinicus]

What?

Wut? What?

 

[Kevinicus]

I agree that All QB’s are a product of people around them to an extent. Football is the ultimate team sport.

But my question is, why is Dak a product of them, more than the other guys? What evidence is there of that?

You mention Wentz. He did have a lot of injuries around him. Then again, his backup played with the same team around him, post injuries and he put up near historic numbers in the playoffs and won super bowl MVP. So clearly the supporting cast wasn’t that bad even after the injuries to guys like Sproles and Peters. That’s my point.

Because good QBs don't fall off a cliff when there are 1 or 2 injuries around them. Sure, there tends to be some drop-off (not always), especially if it is a very significant player, but they don't go from very good to very bad. If they do fall off like that, it indicates that their success was much more dependent on others than is typical.

There's no denying that the Eagles still had a pretty good team. But there's no denying Dallas did as well, and that would be especially true if Dak was who people want to think he is. A good team played well, and a capable backup had a good run. Compared to a supposed good QB fell off a cliff.