Quarterback Article

[LaTunaNostra]

So if QC was white, we could question his intelligence?

If QC were white, chances are his brain farts would be chalked up to speed of the game issues, to developmental curve, youth and inexperience, getting familiar with defenses, not yet automaticized read and react time, or to any of the host of semantic options open to analyzing white QBs.

But since he's NOT white, it's a "mental capacity" issue. I've also noticed those who debate these topics (which are far beyond the scope of their expertise), are never those who read like folks qualified for Rhodes Scholarships themselves.

We've had this discussion here before.

The one about how Tim Couch's intelligence didn't get questioned, but Mike Vick's does. How Akili Smith was dumb, but Cade McNown just couldn't get it done. How Kordell is too dense to learn a playbook, but Ryan Leaf, a true dumbarse, had "maturity issues".

I've seen virtually every black QB's intelligence questioned on sportsboards in the five years I've used them, including Daunte Culpepper's by a Jets fan who lived in central Florida and wagered everyone Daunte was too stupid to succeed. I see Vick's gray matter debated on a weekly basis. Funny how his HC seems to think he's bright enough to master a wco.

When Drew Bledsoe strikes out with both Ernie Zampese's and Kevin Gilbride's intricate offenses, they weren't "right for him. When Kordell Stewart does so, it's congenital.

Pre internet days, I heard the same discussion on Warren Moon, Doug Williams, and James Harris. I have read the same debate also applied to Marlon Briscoe.
Not smart enough "to lead".

When OCs took advantage of the mobility of a Rich Gannon or way back when, a Fran Tarkenton, that was a smart move. When Randall Cunningham used his legs, it was because he didn't have enough brains to use.

When Bill Parcells ran the same simplified offense for vet QB Vinnie Testaverde in NY, it was about "cutting down on interceptions". For the much younger Quincy Carter, it is "reading half the field ".

I have a special regard for Mr. Terry Bradshaw.

He was, to my knowledge, the only well known white QB who bore the stigma (too dumb to be an NFL QB) every black QB bears, that is, those who were lucky enough not to get shunted to receiver or tail in college, like Tony Dungy and so many others were.

BTW, not stealing your thunder here Sportsbabe.

Just a case of "been there, done that".

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I have said this many times on other boards. Me, right here, the guy typing this message is a supporter of Quincy Carter. Mainly because we have invested so much time in this guy, I would like to see him improve and succeed. But....

Again, this guy was our 1st pick in the 2001 Draft. I beleive I should expect more from a former 1st pick than 3 seasons of More INTs than TDs, questionable decision making and up and down play in general at the QB Position. I am almost certain that this guy cannot lead a team to a Super Bowl all by himself but how many QBs playing today can. All he is asked to do is to be as mistake free as possible, throw the ball away when neccessary and make a couple of plays every now and then. As a supporter, I know I get frustrated when I see this same old scenario at the beginning of the year and the end of the year with Carter:

Carter drops back
No receivers open
Carter is under pressure
Carter rolls to his right and back
While jumping in the air, Carter throws the ball right to the Corner or LB staring him down the whole time

This scenario seemed to happen a bunch last year. He knows he has to improve. Hell Bill was even nice enough to jot all of the needed improvements down on a notecard this Off Season.

As you can see, Mickgreen58 AKA Mike is black, so please do not use the "Race Card" if you plan to offer a counterargument to anything I have said.

Living in Big D my whole life, I know there are some fans that do not like him because his race, hell I have seen it, but I beleive the majority of people judge him by his play.

Go ask Don Meredith about how Cowboys fans treat their QBs
Go ask Roger Staubach about how Cowboys fans treat their QBs
Danny White, Hogeboom, Aikman, the list goes on....

Carter, Henson, Hutch and MANY others to come will not be given any mercy. If you want to be QB for the Cowboys, you better have really think skin.

I need to go find the passage in "Cowboys have always been my heroes", a good book I am reading, where Don Meredith and other Cowboys had just lost a playoff game. They were going to eat at a restaurant here in Dallas, and people started leaving because they didnt want to eat with "Losers".

Also, the only thing I hate is when fans go after the family members of Cowboy Players. I think that is hitting below the belt. I have heard people viciously attack Quincy Carter's sister, which I think is stupid.

- Mike G.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Sure they do, you just do not hear it unless you are a fan of that team. Culpepper ,Vick, and McNabb definitely, all the time.

Yah, Sarge, and I just saw it once AGAIN on the board you moderate, about Vick. LMAO.

Gosh if this kid turns into some kind of cool hand Montana there'll be egg on some faces.

 

[Cheap Shot Artist]

Sure they do, you just do not hear it unless you are a fan of that team. Culpepper ,Vick, and McNabb definitely, all the time.

To the extent QC does...its not even close

Put it this way..you are now officially an opposing DC and have to face the above mentioned black QB's

Which one, strikes the least amount of fear?

here's you list..McNair, McNabb, Vick, Culpepper, Leftwich and QC

Then look at our division...Ya got Warner, McNabb, Brunell, and QC

Again, which QB would strike the least amount of fear?

The Eagles, Giants, and Skins defensive Coordinators hope the QC experiment lasts as long as possible

Now lets look at at the last 13 SB winners

the winning team either had a dominant QB (Aikman, Young, Favre, Elway, Warner who's 1st 3 seasons had unparalleled numbers, Brady) or legendary defenses like the '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs

Dallas and Denver also had dominant running games

Now..once again, if you dont think QC could have won 3 SB's on the 92, 93, and '95 teams (heck even 1!!!), with as much talent as those rosters had (the likes of which we may never see again because of the cap), why build around him with inferior offensive talent?

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I
I need to go find the passage in "Cowboys have always been my heroes", a good book I am reading, where Don Meredith and other Cowboys had just lost a playoff game. They were going to eat at a restaurant here in Dallas, and people started leaving because they didnt want to eat with "Losers".

Hey, on your recommendation I ordered that one from Amazon.com.

It's due to arrive this week.

Don't give too much away, okay?

BTW, if Jets fans didn't want to eat with losers, we'd have all starved to death.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Hey, on your recommendation I ordered that one from Amazon.com.

It's due to arrive this week.

Don't give too much away, okay?

BTW, if Jets fans didn't want to eat with losers, we'd have all starved to death.

No Problemo. That is a hell of a book man, you will enjoy it. I am almost done and will probably read Harris and Water's book next.

These QB debates get old. Once I got into the book, I found out that this stuff went on even in the early 60's.

- Mike G.

 

[BHendri5]

If QC were white, chances are his brain farts would be chalked up to speed of the game issues, to developmental curve, youth and inexperience, getting familiar with defenses, not yet automaticized read and react time, or to any of the host of semantic options open to analyzing white QBs.

But since he's NOT white, it's a "mental capacity" issue. I've also noticed those who debate these topics (which are far beyond the scope of their expertise), are never those who read like folks qualified for Rhodes Scholarships themselves.

We've had this discussion here before.

The one about how Tim Couch's intelligence didn't get questioned, but Mike Vick's does. How Akili Smith was dumb, but Cade McNown just couldn't get it done. How Kordell is too dense to learn a playbook, but Ryan Leaf, a true dumbarse, had "maturity issues".

I've seen virtually every black QB's intelligence questioned on sportsboards in the five years I've used them, including Daunte Culpepper's by a Jets fan who lived in central Florida and wagered everyone Daunte was too stupid to succeed. I see Vick's gray matter debated on a weekly basis. Funny how his HC seems to think he's bright enough to master a wco.

When Drew Bledsoe strikes out with both Ernie Zampese's and Kevin Gilbride's intricate offenses, they weren't "right for him. When Kordell Stewart does so, it's congenital.

Pre internet days, I heard the same discussion on Warren Moon, Doug Williams, and James Harris. I have read the same debate also applied to Marlon Briscoe.
Not smart enough "to lead".

When OCs took advantage of the mobility of a Rich Gannon or way back when, a Fran Tarkenton, that was a smart move. When Randall Cunningham used his legs, it was because he didn't have enough brains to use.

When Bill Parcells ran the same simplified offense for vet QB Vinnie Testaverde in NY, it was about "cutting down on interceptions". For the much younger Quincy Carter, it is "reading half the field ".

I have a special regard for Mr. Terry Bradshaw.

He was, to my knowledge, the only well known white QB who bore the stigma (too dumb to be an NFL QB) every black QB bears, that is, those who were lucky enough not to get shunted to receiver or tail in college, like Tony Dungy and so many others were.

BTW, not stealing your thunder here Sportsbabe.

Just a case of "been there, done that".

Lady, I'm falling for you.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Lady, I'm falling for you.

I won't get my hopes up, Sarge.

By now I know there's only room for Quincy in your heart.

 

[BHendri5]

Yah, Sarge, and I just saw it once AGAIN on the board you moderate, about Vick. LMAO.

Gosh if this kid turns into some kind of cool hand Montana there'll be egg on some faces.

You know what that would be some great egg too, I would help them eat that egg.

Oh, they cut my rotation short so I'll back home around the middle of Sept. I should be home for the second weekend of the season. I'll have to change my Username once I get back.

 

[BHendri5]

I won't get my hopes up, Sarge.

By now I know there's only room for Quincy in your heart.

For a beautiful Woman who knows football too, Lady, Quincy got to go. He will have to move around. LOL

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Oh, they cut my rotation short so I'll back home around the middle of Sept. I should be home for the second weekend of the season. I'll have to change my Username once I get back.

Lucky dawg.

I'm saving the tapes of the four preseason games for NoDakCowboy then.

You'll be home by the time the camel route to your APO gets them to Baghdad.

 

[BHendri5]

To the extent QC does...its not even close

Put it this way..you are now officially an opposing DC and have to face the above mentioned black QB's

Which one, strikes the least amount of fear?

here's you list..McNair, McNabb, Vick, Culpepper, Leftwich and QC

Then look at our division...Ya got Warner, McNabb, Brunell, and QC

Again, which QB would strike the least amount of fear?

The Eagles, Giants, and Skins defensive Coordinators hope the QC experiment lasts as long as possible

Now lets look at at the last 13 SB winners

the winning team either had a dominant QB (Aikman, Young, Favre, Elway, Warner who's 1st 3 seasons had unparalleled numbers, Brady) or legendary defenses like the '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs

Dallas and Denver also had dominant running games

Now..once again, if you dont think QC could have won 3 SB's on the 92, 93, and '95 teams (heck even 1!!!), with as much talent as those rosters had (the likes of which we may never see again because of the cap), why build around him with inferior offensive talent?

Leftwich, because he was a rookie and now ihe is going into his second year, but he still has not seen everything and it has not came together for him yet., Then Vick, he may run better than QC, I do not think he is ahead of QC in his development not now especially since QC has Parcells, Peyton and now Vinny. Then QC. On another note you do know that Culpepper fumbles alot.

Now in the NFC East, Warner worries me the least, then QC, and on another note Brunnell is brittle, so it is close in my mind.


Oh and on the teams that won, Heck yeah we would have won with Carter, we had too, too much talent to lose. Irvin would have caught anything Carter threw, just like he did for aikman and any other QB that was subbing for aikman. Also Irvin would have kept Carter after practice with him just like he did aikman so that they would always be on the same page. Irvin help aikman out a lot, he was telling aikman how he can beat his man, or how he was being covered, he always stayed after practice working, have you forgotten? Do you actually think that Irvin would have let Carter bomb had he been the QB on that team? He would have been on Carter from day one, helping him to succeed.

 

[BHendri5]

Lucky dawg.

I'm saving the tapes of the four preseason games for NoDakCowboy then.

You'll be home by the time the camel route to your APO gets them to Baghdad.

LOL, yeah Nodak will enjoy them.

 

[junk]

Leftwich, because he was a rookie and now ihe is going into his second year, but he still has not seen everything and it has not came together for him yet., Then Vick, he may run better than QC, I do not think he is ahead of QC in his development not now especially since QC has Parcells, Peyton and now Vinny. Then QC. On another note you do know that Culpepper fumbles alot.

Now in the NFC East, Warner worries me the least, then QC, and on another note Brunnell is brittle, so it is close in my mind.


Oh and on the teams that won, Heck yeah we would have won with Carter, we had too, too much talent to lose. Irvin would have caught anything Carter threw, just like he did for aikman and any other QB that was subbing for aikman. Also Irvin would have kept Carter after practice with him just like he did aikman so that they would always be on the same page. Irvin help aikman out a lot, he was telling aikman how he can beat his man, or how he was being covered, he always stayed after practice working, have you forgotten? Do you actually think that Irvin would have let Carter bomb had he been the QB on that team? He would have been on Carter from day one, helping him to succeed.

This is something we will never agree on so I don't know why I post, but I guess I feel the need to defend Aikman like you do for Carter.

Aikman is hands down a far more accurate QB than Carter is and probably ever will be. His accuracy and Super Bowl victories will be his legacy. Irvin and Emmitt would not have had the careers they did without Aikman. Those teams would have been hard pressed to win one Super Bowl with Carter, much less three.

Give the guy his due, I will give QC his if/when he earns it.

 

[BHendri5]

This is something we will never agree on so I don't know why I post, but I guess I feel the need to defend Aikman like you do for Carter.

Aikman is hands down a far more accurate QB than Carter is and probably ever will be. His accuracy and Super Bowl victories will be his legacy. Irvin and Emmitt would not have had the careers they did without Aikman. Those teams would have been hard pressed to win one Super Bowl with Carter, much less three.

Give the guy his due, I will give QC his if/when he earns it.

Can't give it to him, because he never won without Emmitt and Irvin, but they won without him. You like stats, look back and see how many times aikman won without those guys. Look at each guy individually and see for yourself who was more successful without one or two. You will see that aikman was not successful at all. Those stats has been posted here before, you may not have been a member then, but they have been posted here before.

You know I do give aikman his due, he was great at managing the game, he was great at carrying out what the coaches asked of him, but rest assure the team that was around aikman, would have won with any QB that could be a bus driver, an average QB could have won SBs with those teams, those teams had it all.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Can't give it to him, because he never won without Emmitt and Irvin, but they won without him. You like stats, look back and see how many times aikman won without those guys. Look at each guy individually and see for yourself who was more successful without one or two. You will see that aikman was not successful at all. Those stats has been posted here before, you may not have been a member then, but they have been posted here before.

You know I do give aikman his due, he was great at managing the game, he was great at carrying out what the coaches asked of him, but rest assure the team that was around aikman, would have won with any QB that could be a bus driver, an average QB could have won SBs with those teams, those teams had it all.

The thing you're missing on CNI is that Troy Aikman was for all intensive purposes one of the most accurate passers of all time. Period. End of discussion. AND he did it in an offense that was not "West Coast". We're talking about an offense that drove the length of the field with skinny posts and deep outs.

Quincy can live till he's 100 and can practice 28 hours per day, but he'll never have Aikman's accuracy. And Aikman's accuracy didn't come from having skilled offensive players around him, it came from God given talent and an ability to read defenses.

To compare Quincy to Aikman is ludicrous.

 

[jimmy40]

Leftwich, because he was a rookie and now ihe is going into his second year, but he still has not seen everything and it has not came together for him yet., Then Vick, he may run better than QC, I do not think he is ahead of QC in his development not now especially since QC has Parcells, Peyton and now Vinny. Then QC. On another note you do know that Culpepper fumbles alot.

Now in the NFC East, Warner worries me the least, then QC, and on another note Brunnell is brittle, so it is close in my mind.


Oh and on the teams that won, Heck yeah we would have won with Carter, we had too, too much talent to lose. Irvin would have caught anything Carter threw, just like he did for aikman and any other QB that was subbing for aikman. Also Irvin would have kept Carter after practice with him just like he did aikman so that they would always be on the same page. Irvin help aikman out a lot, he was telling aikman how he can beat his man, or how he was being covered, he always stayed after practice working, have you forgotten? Do you actually think that Irvin would have let Carter bomb had he been the QB on that team? He would have been on Carter from day one, helping him to succeed.

Remember when Aikman asked Ervin witch 8 he wanted the ball to hit?

 

[BHendri5]

The thing you're missing on CNI is that Troy Aikman was for all intensive purposes one of the most accurate passers of all time. Period. End of discussion. AND he did it in an offense that was not "West Coast". We're talking about an offense that drove the length of the field with skinny posts and deep outs.

Quincy can live till he's 100 and can practice 28 hours per day, but he'll never have Aikman's accuracy. And Aikman's accuracy didn't come from having skilled offensive players around him, it came from God given talent and an ability to read defenses.

To compare Quincy to Aikman is ludicrous.

I'll tell you what is ludicrous, believing that it was God given talent. Accuracy can be achieved with practice, I've seen QBs do it all the time, I watched you guys boy hutch do it last TC. Accuracy can be taught, and with practice you get better and better just like blocking reading defenses. It took aikman 3yrs to get the reading of defenses down, as far as we know. He may have still been learning to read defenses up into his 5th or 6th season, we do not know for sure, but we do know that it took him 3yrs for sure, and he had it down enough so that we could win a Super Bowl in his 4th season. NO it is not ludicrous to comapre Quincy to Aikman they are 2 people no different than any other person in this world, or any other QB that has played football.

oh you for got the comeback patterns, the curl patterns, the crossing patterns, Naw fella you forgot a lot, yeah they drove the length of the field, I agree with you there, but the majority of that would be running the ball.

You know all you fellas can boast about when it comes to aikman is his accuracy, man, that is not much, I'm sure aikman would want you to remember him by more than just.

There have been 39 SuperBowls played, Do you know HOW many QBs has lead their teams to victory and without being as accurate as aikman. You do not need to be accurate to lead your team to the Super bowl (Delhomme) and you definitely do not need to be accurate to win it either.

So that accuracy card you guys keep tossing around, you need to leave it in the closet, because it is old and worn out, you need more than a strong arm and accuracy.

 

[BHendri5]

Remember when Aikman asked Ervin witch 8 he wanted the ball to hit?

Yeah right!! LOL. How bout it went more like I'll just try and hit you in the numbers everytime.

 

[BHendri5]

The thing you're missing on CNI is that Troy Aikman was for all intensive purposes one of the most accurate passers of all time. Period. End of discussion. AND he did it in an offense that was not "West Coast". We're talking about an offense that drove the length of the field with skinny posts and deep outs.

Quincy can live till he's 100 and can practice 28 hours per day, but he'll never have Aikman's accuracy. And Aikman's accuracy didn't come from having skilled offensive players around him, it came from God given talent and an ability to read defenses.

To compare Quincy to Aikman is ludicrous.

And another thing, if you were to go out and practice all those accuracy throwing drills you would become very accurate also.