Twitter: Referee Brad Allen on the 2 point conversion Illegal Touch call

[DuncanIso]

The sneaky part was sending 3 linemen to the referee and hoping that the defense made their own assumptions when #70 came running in and ran straight to the referee.

I am not saying it's not legal for them to do that, but when you try to sneak things by the defense, those same assumptions can be inferred by the referees as well.

Normally, the linemen already on the field are not the ones who report as eligible. The lineman/linemen running onto the field are usually the ones who are reporting as receivers, usually for blocking reasons.

So, the referee likely assumed #70, who came running on to the field directly at him, was the one reporting.

That was likely a mistake but as I have said several times already, the burden is on the team requesting the non-eligible player become eligible to make sure the referee hears and announces the reporting player.

In this case that message was not clearly conveyed most likely because they were more focused on confusing (sneaking it by) the Cowboys defense and instead they confused the referee, which was way more important.

It’s a Jumbo package.

All of them declared.

 

[erod]

,,, and then Micah turns around and gives them the penalty yardage back so they basically get a "redo".

Actually, no, and this is a problem with the rules.

The ineligible man cost Detroit 5 yards, but Micah 's penalty is only half the distance, so it was 3 yards.

Never understood that.

 

[Rockport]

Pretty far away to report

You calling the ref a liar? Is that what you’re saying?

 

[erod]

It’s a Jumbo package.

All of them declared.

Only one guy can declare.

 

[silvernblu]

You obviously don’t understand what you are reading if you are taking about the second flag. There is no second flag if the ref gets the correct player eligible

You miss the point though. If he identifies the right eligible player to the Cowboys - you have a linebacker, safety or CB on a lineman. No way he gets open.

I now think the Lions did what they did all purposely betting that the refs would not risk the scrutiny of calling it in that situation.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Bingo Pete! This is the bottom line.......hell Campbell still could go into overtime and had a better chance IMO coz the Cowboys D was gassed. It was obvious they wanted nothing to do with an extra quarter.

Yep, the Lions had two other chances to get the 2-pt conversion or at least get a tie with a chance to win. Their HC screwed up their chance to win, not once, but twice after the penalty. The Lions were given their chances and refused them.

 

[schweigster]

It's funny everyone is talking about the lineman eligibility call but not the blatantly incorrect call against Hendershot on the drive before. It would've been 2nd and 3. If the cowboys get a first down, they likely run out the clock, and the Lions never even get the ball back.

 

[JBS]

You miss the point though. If he identifies the right eligible player to the Cowboys - you have a linebacker, safety or CB on a lineman. No way he gets open.

I now think the Lions did what they did all purposely betting that the refs would not risk the scrutiny of calling it in that situation.

I didn’t miss this point at all - I’ve acknowledged it

 

[Jarv]

I don’t think there’s any evidence of #70 giving the “eligible” signal to the ref. Yes he runs over to the ref, but you can clearly see the ref talking to Decker and already turning away and towards the Cowboys before #70 even gets close enough to speak to him.
I think the only real argument is for the Lions continuing to run the play and not correcting the ref after he announced the wrong player as eligible. #70 lined up at OG, there was never a possibility of him being eligible so it would have had to be 1 hell of a mistake by the Lions. And their reaction after is telling enough for me, the Ref screwed up.

The ref announced to the world 70 was eligible. The lions didn't correct it, with plenty of time to do so, they were still in the huddle when it was announced.

I might even venture to guess that they were laughing about it...idiots.

 

[phong02]

It’s a Jumbo package.

All of them

It’s a Jumbo package.

All of them declared.

If all of them declared, shouldn’t it be illegal formation as 70 is covered by 68?

 

[Reality]

It’s a Jumbo package.

All of them declared.

This was the formation the Lions used ..

They added one extra linemen to the formation, in this case on the right side.

If all 3 reported then at least one of them is covered by another eligible linemen.

The reality is that three players went to the referee and only one player (#70) was announced.

In the post-game press conference, Campbell said he was told #70 reported but #68 didn't (which he disagrees with), but he did not mention that a third player reported despite 3 linemen approaching the referee including one (#70) who ran from off the field directly at him.

However, even if #68 reported along with #70 and was announced, #70 above is in the right-tackle position at the snap and is covered by another player to his immediate right, which is an illegal formation.

Now, if the Lions only wanted #68 as eligible, then sending 3 linemen to talk to the referee and also not listening to the announcement (which is what the defense was told), places the fault on the Lions players and coaching staff.

It was a non-clock play so Campbell or any Lions player could have easily pointed it out to the referee, but either they chose not to do so to be sneaky or they outsmarted themselves by focusing too much on trying to confuse the defense and instead confused the referee.

 

[silvernblu]

I didn’t miss this point at all - I’ve acknowledged it

Ok. I don’t read everything

 

[CWR]

The ref announced to the world 70 was eligible. The lions didn't correct it, with plenty of time to do so, they were still in the huddle when it was announced.

I might even venture to guess that they were laughing about it...idiots.

They thought they were gonna be sneaky and get away with one. They were wrong. Screw em, and screw all the NFL fans crying about the call. No one cares when we get jobbed, EVER.

 

[Jarv]

It’s a Jumbo package.

All of them declared.

Well then it's an illegal formation if they all declared since 70 was covered.

 

[Roadtrip635]

There’s no way to sneak anything by the defense, in my opinion. First, I read that NFL rules do not limit the number of OLmen who can be eligible on any single play, but that it is entirely the responsibility of the lineman to report directly to the ref and to receive acknowledgement that he is eligible. #70 reported and the ref pointed acknowledgement to him. If 68 also reported, the ref would have to point and acknowledge it. Also, it has to be done in a timely fashion because there will be no pausing of the play clock for this, and no play can be run until after the ref announces the eligibility over the loud system for the defense and everyone else. Only #70 was announced prior to the play.

It was a natural reaction for a safety to see a player, 68, in the end zone and run towards him late, but 68 was never announced, so it would be unfair to the defense to allow it.

Either the ref screwed up or 68 reported late after 70 had reported and was not acknowledged or announced due to the ref already moving into position for the play. Bottom line is that without the announcement being made to the defense, of course the guy was open. Even if it was referee error, it wasn’t like the Lions were robbed of a score because the Cowboys were also robbed of being notified that 68 was eligible And being ready for it.

Exactly, it was a stupid attempt at some sort of "sneaky" play. Sending 3 players to the ref is not going to confuse the defense after the ref announces to the entire stadium and then walks over to the defensive captain who is now eligible for the next play. They could have sent 10 guys over to the ref, the ref is still going to tell the defense who is now eligible, it's not a secret. If it would have been some sort of weird unbalanced line, then maybe, but the defense still knows who is and isn't eligible.

 

[CWR]

You miss the point though. If he identifies the right eligible player to the Cowboys - you have a linebacker, safety or CB on a lineman. No way he gets open.

I now think the Lions did what they did all purposely betting that the refs would not risk the scrutiny of calling it in that situation.

What other benefit was there? The officials immediately tell the defense who is eligible, so how else could they have gained an advantage? I think you're right. They tried some nonsense and it backfired.

 

[tm1119]

This was the formation the Lions used ..

They added one extra linemen to the formation, in this case on the right side.

If all 3 reported then at least one of them is covered by another eligible linemen.

The reality is that three players went to the referee and only one player (#70) was announced.

In the post-game press conference, Campbell said he was told #70 reported but #68 didn't (which he disagrees with), but he did not mention that a third player reported despite 3 linemen approaching the referee including one (#70) who ran from off the field directly at him.

However, even if #68 reported along with #70 and was announced, #70 above is in the right-tackle position at the snap and is covered by another player to his immediate right, which is an illegal formation.

Now, if the Lions only wanted #68 as eligible, then sending 3 linemen to talk to the referee and also not listening to the announcement (which is what the defense was told), places the fault on the Lions players and coaching staff.

It was a non-clock play so Campbell or any Lions player could have easily pointed it out to the referee, but either they chose not to do so to be sneaky or they outsmarted themselves by focusing too much on trying to confuse the defense and instead confused the referee.

This is a legit question- is it a penalty to announce yourself as eligible but not actually be eligible? I honestly don’t know the answer. If #70 goes past the LOS or touches the ball, yes it would 100% be a penalty. But is it a penalty to announce yourself as eligible and then play RG?

 

[Reality]

This is a legit question- is it a penalty to announce yourself as eligible but not actually be eligible? I honestly don’t know the answer. If #70 goes past the LOS or touches the ball, yes it would 100% be a penalty. But is it a penalty to announce yourself as eligible and then play RG?

No, you are not required to run a route if you announce as eligible, but you do have to follow formation rules if you do so.

Reporting as eligible is the same as sending in an eligible receiver (#1-49 and #80-89 players) to play the position.

 

[SloMo_Joe]

According to the rules guy on the broadcast it was an illegal formation anyway. Reporting or not just changes the penalty, same end result.

 

[Reality]

This is a legit question- is it a penalty to announce yourself as eligible but not actually be eligible? I honestly don’t know the answer. If #70 goes past the LOS or touches the ball, yes it would 100% be a penalty. But is it a penalty to announce yourself as eligible and then play RG?

Thinking about it, it would be funny if a team (has to be done prior to the season starting) moved all of their active roster to #1-49 and #80-89 numbers, so technically they would all be eligible receivers