Roy Williams Rule, Expanded.

[Avery]

I'm not sure about the knee but the major injury was a compound fracture of the lower leg.

You're right. I revised the original post.

 

[Gamebreaker]

It's the same way in the college game. I can't stand Duke, but I knew they were in trouble against LSU when Jim Bure was refereeing the game because that guy wouldn't call a handcheck if his life depended on it.

All of the NBA apologists like to claim they play such great defense, but the Olympics showed that once they took away the handchecking, opposing teams scorched them from the perimeter and often times they had difficulty defending simple pick and rolls.

Rich........

Stockton and Malone got away with the pick and roll for years after their prime because players don't know fundamentals anymore. This is why the most fundamentally sound teams, not the most talented ones, always win and go to the finals. Hence the reason why a Spurs/Pistons rematch is a no brainer.

It's sad, really. Last year's USA team rivaled that of the original Dream Team in pure talent, yet would've lost by 30+ if they'd actually played them.

 

[Doomsday101]

Looking Musa Smith tackle he is stiff arming the heck out of Roy face mask to the point Roy is having to take him down the only way he can.

 

[theogt]

Adam, the pics you posted actually look like pad grabs, excluding the Calico grab. The Calico grab appears to be a jersey grab but from this pic alone we can't really tell, so that is at least debatable.

By the way, you can take your condescending tone and shove it.

 

[Alexander]

Yes it was. Please, there's no need to be an ***. The "Air" statement was uncalled for.


http://img519.*************/img519/5986/image11623988zi.jpg


Unless you're gonna try and tell me Roy's fingers, from the middle to the tip, are twice as long, then from the middle to the base, then I'd say he's got jersey there. If anything, MAYBE his middle finger has a slight piece of shoulder pad.


One thing you have to remember is nowadays players wear extremely tight jerseys. The have just a bit more give then the shoulder pads themselves.


Hey I know, if the NFL wants to cut down on horse collar injuries, then don't allow players to wear their jerseys so tight.

:laugh2:

So now we have been reduced to finger size and what percentage was "tip"?

He grabbed inside the jersey and pulled down using the pad. His strength and of course gravity caused the injuries.

This is a simple concept.

I don't really care what the deal was. The NFL ruled it illegal, then refused to enforce the rule. It is a non-issue.

But he did grab shoulder pads in both instances. To state otherwise is false.

 

[MSalz87]

Roy Williams Draft info:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/williams_roy.htm
4.53 in the 40-yard dash

Sean Taylor:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/sean_taylor
4.54 in the 40-yard dash

Doesn't it suck to be wrong.

Both players have put on weight though, I wonder who is the faster player after that. Roy is around 230 or more now Taylor is probably about 235 or so, who knows.

Back to the topic at hand the rule is useless. Horse collar tackles should be just like every other dangerous hit in the league and can be decided upon a fine by NFL officals just as a defender launching themselves as a projectile would, it doesnt need special attention really, last season the only time it pissed be off was when Portis hurt his shoulder a bit because of it but hey thats football **** happens.

 

[Yeagermeister]

Both players have put on weight though, I wonder who is the faster player after that. Roy is around 230 or more now Taylor is probably about 235 or so, who knows.

Back to the topic at hand the rule is useless. Horse collar tackles should be just like every other dangerous hit in the league and can be decided upon a fine by NFL officals just as a defender launching themselves as a projectile would, it doesnt need special attention really, last season the only time it pissed be off was when Portis hurt his shoulder a bit because of it but hey thats football **** happens.

IMO Roy needs to lose about 10 pounds and get some quickness back.

 

[Rack]

Actually Rack you can't tell from that pick whether its jersey or pad. Also, if you look at that picture and when it was taken in the sequence its very possible that his hand had slipped from the pad at that point.

Yeah it was the best one I could find. But it's obvious only one of his fingers could of possibly been in the shoulder pad.

And I agree his hand could of gone from pad to jersey, but Adam's pic shows the play early in the tackle, and you can clearly see shoulder pad in front of Roy's fingers.

Adam, the pics you posted actually look like pad grabs, excluding the Calico grab.

You can clearly see pad in front of Roy's fingers on the Musa tackle.


It's not so clear on the TO tackle, but you certainly can't say for sure it's shoulder pad on that one either.



The Calico one isn't even debatable. In fact, even if he had pad on that one it wouldn't of been a penalty cuz Roy didn't drop his weight to bring him down. Roy was still standing after he made that tackle.

 

[Rack]

So now we have been reduced to finger size and what percentage was "tip"?

He grabbed inside the jersey and pulled down using the pad. His strength and of course gravity caused the injuries.

This is a simple concept.

I don't really care what the deal was. The NFL ruled it illegal, then refused to enforce the rule. It is a non-issue.

But he did grab shoulder pads in both instances.

No he didn't.


To state he did grab pad is false.

 

[AdamJT13]

Adam, the pics you posted actually look like pad grabs, excluding the Calico grab. The Calico grab appears to be a jersey grab but from this pic alone we can't really tell, so that is at least debatable.

There's no question on the Calico one. He never even grabbed the collar of the jersey -- his hand was outside the jersey the whole time. And I don't see any way anyone can say for sure whether Roy's hand was ever inside the collar of the shoulder pads on the Smith tackle or the Owens tackle. You certainly can't see it in any of the pictures anyone has posted.

 

[theogt]

And I agree his hand could of gone from pad to jersey, but Adam's pic shows the play early in the tackle, and you can clearly see shoulder pad in front of Roy's fingers.

No, you can't.

It's not so clear on the TO tackle, but you certainly can't say for sure it's shoulder pad on that one either.

Look at the giant picture posted awhile back. From that pic it is absolutely conclusive that it was a pad grab.

The Calico one isn't even debatable. In fact, even if he had pad on that one it wouldn't of been a penalty cuz Roy didn't drop his weight to bring him down. Roy was still standing after he made that tackle.

Maybe so, but I'd have to see more pics/vids to determine.

 

[AdamJT13]

The Calico one isn't even debatable. In fact, even if he had pad on that one it wouldn't of been a penalty cuz Roy didn't drop his weight to bring him down. Roy was still standing after he made that tackle.

Roy did use his weight to pull Calico down, and Roy did drop to the ground. But Roy had the OUTSIDE of Calico's jersey, which still is legal -- at least, until the NFL outlaws grabbing the outside of the jersey to tackle someone.

I'd post this picture, but it's a rather graphic image of Calico's knees being shredded, so I'll just link to it --

http://img2.uploadimages.net/575351DSC00006.JPG

 

[theogt]

Roy did use his weight to pull Calico down, and Roy did drop to the ground. But Roy had the OUTSIDE of Calico's jersey, which still is legal -- at least, until the NFL outlaws grabbing the outside of the jersey to tackle someone.

I'd post this picture, but it's a rather graphic image of Calico's knees being shredded, so I'll just link to it --

http://img2.uploadimages.net/575351DSC00006.JPG

You're right. That was graphic. Do you have the actual language of the new rule?

 

[superpunk]

Please find where you read I said Taylor was faster in this thread. And please, don't hurt yourself.

So if you're not claiming that Taylor is faster than Roy, obviously, Taylor is too slow, and is thus forced to use the hors collar tackle? That, after all, was your assertion in your first post in this thread. But then again, we both know it was just a pitiful attempt at flaming, don't we?

 

[31smackdown]

The issue last year with the rule was that it used some language like..grab the collar and immediately or suddenly yank down... So what Roy and everyone else did last year to get around it was grab the jersey or collar and then hold them up for a minute before completing the tackle..

I remember Roy doing this several times last year.. I think at least once to Tiki Barber, who said he was tackle this way at least 5 times last year. The end result... well.. the RB got 3 more yards, because Roy didn't just rip him down and it still ended up causing awkward torque on the body of the player being tackled.

I think what further caused issue is that players started to feel when somone had their collar and really had no way to go down voluntarily.. when you are grabbed like that.. you are basically being held up and unless you foot slide it's realyl hard to just give yourself up to avoid injury

Several times I've actually been waiting for someone to hit a player from the front as they were geting dragged down from behind, but I never saw it happen.

Anyway, as much as I hate the rule, it definitely did start to appear to be causing injuries pretty often. Sometimes it may have only have been a slight twist of the ankle or knee, but it was definitely more than the usual tackle.

So I think the new technique should be grab the collar , pull back, not down, to slow or stop momentum.. let go, then tackle fromt he side, facemask to earhole...

 

[Vertigo_17]

Just curious, but is football a contact sport?

not for long

 

[DallasDW00ds0n]

it wont be called, just like the horsecollar

 

[superpunk]

IMO, Roy plays slower than his 40 yard dash.

Ah, I see. Nice non-answer. But the fact is, your opinion is baseless. All signs point to Roy being just as fast as Taylor. It's just your opinion, that Roy plays slower than he was actually timed. It has become obvious, by your posting, how much we should value YOUR opinion, Norman.

You came in the thread, looking for **** with your comment about Williams. You got it. You make a stupid, asinine comment, you get mocked in a similar style. Bone up on your knowledge a little bit before trying again.

 

[theogt]

it wont be called, just like the horsecollar

The horsecollar wasn't called because players started grabbing jersey. Since the rule didn't cover this they couldn't call a penalty. The new rule is designed to change this.

 

[cwbyfan72]

I just read this whole thread, and wished i had 10 min of my life back. PLayers other than RW have used this tackle. WE are a high profile team, therefore Roy gets the brunt of the action. I think it ridiculous and injuries happen in this sport no matter how precautious the players are. Defenders are taught to "take down the ball carrier". PERIOD. Its becoming more and more fluff each year.

And for the Skins fan: I don't care about Sean Taylor and his gangster . The debate should be : how many years is his going to be in prison? How fast can he pick up the soap? Does he hit hard in the showers?