Should we let Newman walk?

[28 Joker]

I'm arguing Newman affects or impacts the games just as much as the "elite" corners in the game. Therefore, he is elite. Some of the people that disagree, point to the interceptions total.

The 2006 Lions game was an outlier in Newman's 2006 year. The Dallas defense was in complete free fall. The guy didn't give up a touchdown in 2005. Name another corner that had that distinction in 2005. In 2006, the touchdown in Atlana, which came in December, was the first he had given up all year. He simply played the ball with the wrong hand after spying on Vick.

 

[Vintage]

I'm arguing Newman affects or impacts the games just as much as the "elite" corners in the game. Therefore, he is elite. Some of the people that disagree, point to the interceptions total.

The 2006 Lions game was an outlier in Newman's 2006 year. The Dallas defense was in complete free fall. The guy didn't give up a touchdown in 2005. Name another corner that had that distinction in 2005. In 2006, the touchdown in Atlana, which came in December, was the first he had given up all year. He simply played the ball with the wrong hand after spying on Vick.

He gave up a TD to Reggie Wayne in the Indianapolis game.

And the Falcons TD, I don't care if he used the wrong hand or whatever. He was responsible for the coverage there too.

IIRC, he was credited for giving up 3 TD's last year. Wasn't the last one to Mike Williams?

 

[dallasfan]

I'm arguing Newman affects or impacts the games just as much as the "elite" corners in the game.

Well we must disagree on elite CBs, b/c a few threads up I pointed out I believed Champ was the only elite CB, and Newman doesn't effect games like him.

 

[28 Joker]

Ronde Barber goes to the Pro Bowl every year. He is considered an elite player.

Here is Tampa Bay's numbers VS Steve Smith:

2003:

Game 1 (3-27-0) L
Game 2 (9-72-1) L

2004: DNP Our for Year

2005:

Game 1 (5-106-1) L
Game 2 (5-103-0) W

2006:

Game 1 (7-112-0) L
Game 2 (8-149-1) L

Barber doesn't play man to man coverage in the slot, and he doesn't shadow Steve Smith all over the field. Therefore, the Bucs can't beat them on the field. One win isn't cutting it. They are 1-5 against the Panthers since 2003 with Smith in the line-up. The losses don't lie. Steve Smith is torching them and beating them.

Newman has shut him down three times.

 

[AbeBeta]

I'm arguing Newman affects or impacts the games just as much as the "elite" corners in the game. Therefore, he is elite. Some of the people that disagree, point to the interceptions total.

The 2006 Lions game was an outlier in Newman's 2006 year. The Dallas defense was in complete free fall. The guy didn't give up a touchdown in 2005. Name another corner that had that distinction in 2005. In 2006, the touchdown in Atlana, which came in December, was the first he had given up all year. He simply played the ball with the wrong hand after spying on Vick.

That Detroit game was funny.

All season folks had been saying "let the D play more aggressively" -- the players had been crying for it and this board was talking about it constantly. Bill lets them play that way and our D stinks.

But hey, Ware got 3 sacks. That's all that is really important. Isn't it?

 

[Vintage]

Well, if Barber doesn't shadow Smith everywhere, then not all of those catches/yards/touchdowns are Barber's fault.

And its not like Newman shadows the elite WR's everywhere. Remember Moss back in '05. Newman was off guarding someone else. Who was their elite WR? Who ended up scoring?

Plaxico Burress is the elite WR on the Giants team. But Henry spent a great deal of time on him.

 

[28 Joker]

2005:

Philadelphia at Dallas

Newman picks up where he left off while covering Owens in December of 2004. He plays a major part in holding Owens to this:

5-50-0 Dallas routes the Eagles


The very next week, Owens torches Champ Bailey on the outside for a 91 yard TD. Owens catches a shallow slant and jukes Bailey out of his shoes and runs 91 yards to pay dirt. Owens puts this on Bailey and Denver's defense. Newman didn't allow Owens to pull this stunt in Dallas.

3-154-1 Denver routes the Eagles.

Same year, same corners, same receiver, but two different results.

I'm not arguing Bailey isn't the best. I don't have to do that. For anyone to say that there is a huge gap between Bailey and the other elite corners in the league isn't true.

Asante Samuel had 10 picks last year as well. Can he sit at the dinner table with Champ Bailey? YES

 

[Vintage]

That Detroit game was funny.

All season folks had been saying "let the D play more aggressively" -- the players had been crying for it and this board was talking about it constantly. Bill lets them play that way and our D stinks.

But hey, Ware got 3 sacks. That's all that is really important. Isn't it?

No kidding. We turned the players loose.....

And Detroit happened. Furrey throwing the ball at the star and cracking it was amusing. Stupid? Yes. But amusing. Its bad when Detroit can notch up 39 points against you. But don't worry. Wade's "agressive" scheme will change that.

The players got what they asked for; an aggressive game plan.

And Detroit got their 3rd win of the season.

 

[dallasfan]

Barber doesn't play man to man coverage in the slot, and he doesn't shadow Steve Smith all over the field. Therefore, the Bucs can't beat them on the field. One win isn't cutting it. They are 1-5 against the Panthers since 2003 with Smith in the line-up. The losses don't lie. Steve Smith is torching them and beating them.

Newman has shut him down three times.

I think Barber is past his prime and no longer an elite, but why are all of Steve's Smith's totals getting attributed to Barber? I agree the numbers don't lie and Tampa Bay can't cover Steve Smith, but they suck, so what exactly is the point? If it's barber goes to the pro-bowl every year, so does Larry Allen and he's not an elite guard anymore.

 

[superpunk]

No kidding. We turned the players loose.....

And Detroit happened. Furrey throwing the ball at the star and cracking it was amusing. Stupid? Yes. But amusing. Its bad when Detroit can notch up 39 points against you. But don't worry. Wade's "agressive" scheme will change that.

The players got what they asked for; an aggressive game plan.

And Detroit got their 3rd win of the season.

That Detroit game was funny.

All season folks had been saying "let the D play more aggressively" -- the players had been crying for it and this board was talking about it constantly. Bill lets them play that way and our D stinks.

But hey, Ware got 3 sacks. That's all that is really important. Isn't it?

stop it.

it burns the eyes....

 

[28 Joker]

Ronde Barber is an elite player, but he plays heavy zone. He makes great plays on the ball, and he gets great picks while playing designated zones of space on the field. He can't run with Smith all over the field, because he doesn't have Newman's 4.37 speed.

 

[Vintage]

stop it.

it burns the eyes....

Don't worry.

Wade's agressive scheme will change that. We'll get Detroit next time.

After all, it wasn't the players fault that they didn't perform in the agressive scheme in Detroit. It was Parcell's agressive scheme; not Phillips. It's a scheme thing. You wouldn't understand. Its complicated.

Never gonna say goodbye....never gonne turn around and desert you...

 

[dallasfan]

Ronde Barber is an elite player, but he plays heavy zone. He makes great plays on the ball, and he gets great picks while playing designated zones of space on the field. He can't run with Smith all over the field, because he doesn't have Newman's 4.37 speed.

totally agree that Barber can't run with Smith, but it's hard to say a 32 year old CB is elite. He's a HOF for sure imo, but not as good as he was a few years ago.

 

[28 Joker]

I would say Santana Moss has elite speed and when healthy he is very good.

In 2005, Newman wasn't covering him while Moss torched Dallas for 2 touchdowns in 2005. That is 2 TDs on Glenn and Williams in the span of 4 minutes. That game put the Commanders in the playoffs and sent Dallas home.

In 2006, Newman shadows Moss all over the field and shuts him down. Dallas wins. Newman didn't get an interception, but he affected the outcome of the game. Dallas goes to playoffs.

Champ Bailey doesn't play man to man coverage in the slot, so he will never be asked to do this.

 

[superpunk]

Don't worry.

Wade's agressive scheme will change that. We'll get Detroit next time.

After all, it wasn't the players fault that they didn't perform in the agressive scheme in Detroit. It was Parcell's agressive scheme; not Phillips. It's a scheme thing. You wouldn't understand. Its complicated.

Maybe if we had gotten Ellis more help?

We know the game and we're - gonna play it!

 

[Doomsday101]

I would say Santana Moss has elite speed and when healthy he is very good.

In 2005, Newman wasn't covering him while Moss torched Dallas for 2 touchdowns in 2005. That is 2 TDs on Glenn and Williams in the span of 4 minutes. That game put the Commanders in the playoffs and sent Dallas home.

In 2006, Newman shadows Moss all over the field and shuts him down. Dallas wins. Newman didn't get an interception, but he affected the outcome of the game. Dallas goes to playoffs.

Champ Bailey doesn't play man to man coverage in the slot, so he will never be asked to do this.

I agree and you have to love the job Newman has been able to do aginst Steve Smith of the Panthers

 

[Vintage]

I would say Santana Moss has elite speed and when healthy he is very good.

In 2005, Newman wasn't covering him while Moss torched Dallas for 2 touchdowns in 2005. That is 2 TDs on Glenn and Williams in the span of 4 minutes. That game put the Commanders in the playoffs and sent Dallas home.

In 2006, Newman shadows Moss all over the field and shuts him down. Dallas wins. Newman didn't get an interception, but he affected the outcome of the game. Dallas goes to playoffs.

Champ Bailey doesn't play man to man coverage in the slot, so he will never be asked to do this.

That's all nice and dandy that Newman can play in the slot.

But when the game was on the line, it was Aaron Glenn on Santana Moss two years ago; not Newman. Had the Skins been playing the Broncos, methinks Champ would have been on him.

Your claim was Champ doesn't follow people around and Newman does. I was just giving you an example where Newman clearly wasn't following Moss around.

 

[Vintage]

Maybe if we had gotten Ellis more help?

We know the game and we're - gonna play it!

Ellis needs more help around him to free him up for a pass rush, don't you remember?

We've been together, for so long.......

 

[Doomsday101]

That's all nice and dandy that Newman can play in the slot.

But when the game was on the line, it was Aaron Glenn on Santana Moss two years ago; not Newman. Had the Skins been playing the Broncos, methinks Champ would have been on him.

Your claim was Champ doesn't follow people around and Newman does. I was just giving you an example where Newman clearly wasn't following Moss around.

In that skins game Dallas was playing more of a prevent defense late in the game. In the end the prevent defense prevented us from winning.

 

[Vintage]

In that skins game Dallas was playing more of a prevent defense late in the game. In the end the prevent defense prevented us from winning.

So......is that a 'yes', Newman wasn't following Moss around that game?