Sick of the entire QB scenerio in Dallas

[jay cee]

Originally Posted by jay cee
Dooms you were one of the main guys complaining about the lack of points last season and placing the blame on the qb. Now that there is a different qb, it's ok not to score points?

And as much as you complained about Parcells decision last year, now you wanna play the Parcells is doing what he feels is best card. I don't remember you being that supportive last year.

Jim this is what was posted now if that was not directed at me then I question your ability to comprehend. Now tell me is this ie "poster" or directed at me? Be honest!!! LOL

we got it straight Dooms.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Jim,

Your in here complaining that Vinnie isn't being judged in the same light as Carter, what a surprise.

You, of all people, should really have zip to complain about. Carter got the bennifit of the doubt at every turn. He never had to compete with Banks, but was instead given the job. He got beat out fair and square by Wright but was still given the job because it was said at that time that he had better upside. He never really had to beat out Hutchinson either. That compatition was in name only but, in all honesty, I don't know that he couldn't have. Doesn't change the fact that Carter was never a good QB. He never put up reasonable numbers but he was supported based on the fact that the team was winning.

Here's what I'll say. When I watched Carter, it was easy to see he was a weakness. I watch Vinnie and I admit that he is not of all pro calibure but we are not lossing games because of him at this point. He is currently the 12 rated passer in the league. Carter was something like 24th last year. There is no debate. Vinnie is not good but he's certainly much better then Carter at this point. Say we're a double standard crew if you wish but I challenge you to back this BS up with actual fact and not just your opinion. Prove your theory.

If Vinnie proves to be a bottom feeder in this league, then fine. He will not get three free ride years and nobody is going to go out of there way to make excuses for him or call people out as racist or whatever other BS straw you can grasp to try and explain away his play. He will simply be replaced. That's really the difference here.

 

[Jimz31]

Jim,

Your in here complaining that Vinnie isn't being judged in the same light as Carter, what a surprise.

You, of all people, should really have zip to complain about. Carter got the bennifit of the doubt at every turn. He never had to compete with Banks, but was instead given the job. He got beat out fair and square by Wright but was still given the job because it was said at that time that he had better upside. He never really had to beat out Hutchinson either. That compatition was in name only but, in all honesty, I don't know that he couldn't have. Doesn't change the fact that Carter was never a good QB. He never put up reasonable numbers but he was supported based on the fact that the team was winning.

Here's what I'll say. When I watched Carter, it was easy to see he was a weakness. I watch Vinnie and I admit that he is not of all pro calibure but we are not lossing games because of him at this point. He is currently the 12 rated passer in the league. Carter was something like 24th last year. There is no debate. Vinnie is not good but he's certainly much better then Carter at this point. Say we're a double standard crew if you wish but I challenge you to back this BS up with actual fact and not just your opinion. Prove your theory.

If Vinnie proves to be a bottom feeder in this league, then fine. He will not get three free ride years and nobody is going to go out of there way to make excuses for him or call people out as racist or whatever other BS straw you can grasp to try and explain away his play. He will simply be replaced. That's really the difference here.

Theory, schmeory. What I have been talking about is how there is a DEFINITE change in how people view the QB this year. I never said that Carter didn't get the benefit of the doubt. Show me where I ever said that. I have always thought that Wright got screwed. He SHOULD have been the starter over QC. I said so and still believe it.

The difference is that now we have a veteran that is still making mistakes and having plenty of "near-INT's". These "near-INT's" posts abounded after virtually every game. You can barely find one here.

I'm saying that people here crucified QC over the same mistakes that Vinny has made, yet VT gets a pass. Who's the veteran here?

We couldn't score points because of QC....now what's the excuse? Oh, it's everbody else BUT VT.

Don't tell me that people didn't blame QC for losses....it happened after EVERY ONE.

I've also never called anybody a racist over their dislike for him either, so you can take that out right now.

You say that it was "easy to see" that QC was a weakness, yet VT is a vet and isn't much better. Shouldn't a vet be much better than an individual that lost those games for us last year according to you?

To say that there isn't a change in the opinion of our QB despite the fact we aren't scoring more points than we did last year with much less to work with isn't being honest. I said it before, I'll say it again....."Change the name on VT's back to Carter, and you'll have people howling." You know it's true, you just don't want to admit it.

Carter is gone and that is fine, but for some of you to have said that you look at all QB's under the same vision, and then we have what we have now and there's nothing is unbelievable.

 

[blindzebra]

My point is that alot of people said that they judged all QB's the same. The VT/QC experiment just proves that they in fact do NOT evaluate all QB's the same.

I said last year and the year before that, that if you changed the name on Carter's jersey to someone else, you would get a different reaction. That is essentially what has happened. Carter's name has been changed to Testeverde. The results are arguably the same except that I believe we are now below the points scored from last year.

Who keeps putting that fence back up?

I think most are being consistent. We viewed Carter as not being the long term answer and we view Vinny the same way. The difference is we know Vinny is a stop gap and we won't waste 3 years on him.

 

[Doomsday101]

Who keeps putting that fence back up?

I think most are being consistent. We viewed Carter as not being the long term answer and we view Vinny the same way. The difference is we know Vinny is a stop gap and we won't waste 3 years on him.

Exactly. It would not have made a differance had Carter stayed he was still not the future of this ball club. I think there are some things Vinny is doing better such as leading the WR and allowing them to make runs after catches and does a better job of looking defenders off but bottom line is the Cowboys are not scoring points. I also do not think Dallas will have to scale back the offense because of Vinny as we had to do with Carter. What I hope to see in the end is Vinny returning as a backup next season and Henson ready to take over

 

[Jimz31]

Who keeps putting that fence back up?

I think most are being consistent. We viewed Carter as not being the long term answer and we view Vinny the same way. The difference is we know Vinny is a stop gap and we won't waste 3 years on him.

What's the fence have to do with it?

Consistent? It was QC's fault that we couldn't score right? Now who is at fault? Not VT....no way. He's got too much firepower all around to have it be HIS fault. His slow release and lack of mobility has nothing to do with it.

I never said the QC was the long term answer. I just wasn't gonna bag on him like he was some veteran making some stupid mistakes. Yet, now we have a veteran doing some of the same things and it's not his fault.

OK, I give up.....VT is the end-all of all QB's. I will give him a pass on everything. All he's gotta do is drive the bus. (hopefully, he'll be given the keys someday.)

You keep trying to turn this around, but some people just don't like it when they are shown to view their QB's in a different light than what they have previously said. If you aren't one of them, you have nothing to worry about and aren't happy with what we have. If you are one of them, you love what we have a QB.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Theory, schmeory. What I have been talking about is how there is a DEFINITE change in how people view the QB this year. I never said that Carter didn't get the benefit of the doubt. Show me where I ever said that. I have always thought that Wright got screwed. He SHOULD have been the starter over QC. I said so and still believe it.

The difference is that now we have a veteran that is still making mistakes and having plenty of "near-INT's". These "near-INT's" posts abounded after virtually every game. You can barely find one here.

I'm saying that people here crucified QC over the same mistakes that Vinny has made, yet VT gets a pass. Who's the veteran here?

We couldn't score points because of QC....now what's the excuse? Oh, it's everbody else BUT VT.

Don't tell me that people didn't blame QC for losses....it happened after EVERY ONE.

I've also never called anybody a racist over their dislike for him either, so you can take that out right now.

You say that it was "easy to see" that QC was a weakness, yet VT is a vet and isn't much better. Shouldn't a vet be much better than an individual that lost those games for us last year according to you?

To say that there isn't a change in the opinion of our QB despite the fact we aren't scoring more points than we did last year with much less to work with isn't being honest. I said it before, I'll say it again....."Change the name on VT's back to Carter, and you'll have people howling." You know it's true, you just don't want to admit it.

Carter is gone and that is fine, but for some of you to have said that you look at all QB's under the same vision, and then we have what we have now and there's nothing is unbelievable.

Tell ya what. Let's put all this Bovine Scatology to rest right away. You say it's interesting, I say there not the same. Show me the statistics that prove Carter was as good or better then what Vinnie has been to this point and I will conceed your point. I asked you to prove your statement and you side stepped. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it and I will appoligize. If I'm not, then lets just put this crap aside. Vinnie is not Carter. If he proves to be, I'll pitch in for the bus ticket back to NY.

 

[blindzebra]

What's the fence have to do with it?

Consistent? It was QC's fault that we couldn't score right? Now who is at fault? Not VT....no way. He's got too much firepower all around to have it be HIS fault. His slow release and lack of mobility has nothing to do with it.

I never said the QC was the long term answer. I just wasn't gonna bag on him like he was some veteran making some stupid mistakes. Yet, now we have a veteran doing some of the same things and it's not his fault.

OK, I give up.....VT is the end-all of all QB's. I will give him a pass on everything. All he's gotta do is drive the bus. (hopefully, he'll be given the keys someday.)

You keep trying to turn this around, but some people just don't like it when they are shown to view their QB's in a different light than what they have previously said. If you aren't one of them, you have nothing to worry about and aren't happy with what we have. If you are one of them, you love what we have a QB.

For someone without an agenda, you sure like stirring the s---. You like to point these fingers, but try looking in the mirror. Carter got excuse after excuse from his supporters, where was this stance of yours then? Nope you propped up that support from your fence and took shots at the haters, so who is not being consistent? Pot meet kettle.

I'll say it again, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT VINNY BECAUSE HE'S A STOP GAP. If he messes up fine, the sooner we get to find out about Henson and Romo.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Carter is gone and that is fine, but for some of you to have said that you look at all QB's under the same vision, and then we have what we have now and there's nothing is unbelievable.

There's another reason why Vinnie won't face as much flack as Carter did, and that is that everyone, but EVERYONE, from Jerry Jones on down knows VT is an interim, caretaker QB.

With Quincy, every flaw major or minor, was a reminder that years of "that" could stretch out...a decade of 'not quite good enough' QB play. That made his not developing 'enough' as scary a thought, or MORE scary, than his outright failure. Hence, the undercurrent that was always present that his quick and complete failure was hoped for. And hence the criticism of his game even in wins when not many points were scored.

With Vin, hey, he ain't starting next year. Period.

And he also draws some good will from his 'mentoring' status.

There are many reasons, and some of them very good, why even a season in hell with Vinnie won't draw the same concern/criticism as one with a "developing QB" you could be saddled with ad infintum, one who was just good enough to beat out non-entities ike Chad, (a default battle) but never good enough to make us consistently competitive.

 

[junk]

Carter is gone. He stunk anyway and was a drug abuser. I knew as soon as Vinny struggled, the Carter supporters would drag themselves out of the woodwork to take some shots.

Worry about things that matter. Carter doesn't.

 

[Jimz31]

Tell ya what. Let's put all this Bovine Scatology to rest right away. You say it's interesting, I say there not the same. Show me the statistics that prove Carter was as good or better then what Vinnie has been to this point and I will conceed your point. I asked you to prove your statement and you side stepped. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it and I will appoligize. If I'm not, then lets just put this crap aside. Vinnie is not Carter. If he proves to be, I'll pitch in for the bus ticket back to NY.

Let's look through the first 4 games:

Atlanta - 27-13 LOST Threw for 268 yards 1TD 1INT.
NY Giants - 35-32 WIN Threw for 321 yards 1 INT 1 rushing TD.
NY Jets - 17-6 WIN Threw for 165 1TD and 1INT
Arizona 24-7 WIN Threw for 277 yards 2TD's 1 INT

Record 3-1 1031 passing yards. 5Td's total, 4INT's.

So far, through 4 games, VT has 1017 yards, 4TD's 4INT's with a 2-2 record.

There's your statistics. Not to mention that we were scoring more points at this point in the season.

Go buy your bus ticket now.

 

[Jimz31]

For someone without an agenda, you sure like stirring the s---. You like to point these fingers, but try looking in the mirror. Carter got excuse after excuse from his supporters, where was this stance of yours then? Nope you propped up that support from your fence and took shots at the haters, so who is not being consistent? Pot meet kettle.

I'll say it again, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT VINNY BECAUSE HE'S A STOP GAP. If he messes up fine, the sooner we get to find out about Henson and Romo.

What's my "agenda" slick?

I refused to point the finger at HIM as the sole reason we lost. That was all that I did.

Now, I'm waiting on these same people to react the same way this year as they did last year. Is that too hard for you to do? It could have been ANY young QB that faced the same ridiculous criticiscm that alot of you lobbed his way.

That's what it came down to last year....ridiculous criticism. I understand the criticism to a point, but to the extent that alot of people took it? Nope.

 

[InmanRoshi]

If we'd drafted Leftwich or Roethlisberger, or even Rex Grossman, do you think any of them would be sitting behind Romo and Vinnie the way Henson is?

Hate to interrupt the standard post Cowboys loss ***** and moan routine with actual reality, but last year Rex Grossman sat behind the stunning Kordell Stewart and Chris Chandler for a celler dwelling Chicago team. Meanwhile, Lefty sat behind Brunell for the first 3 games of last season, and only got in when Brunell was injured (just like the only reason Rothlesberger got in this early in the year was because Maddox was injored.)

And if you listened to Jerry Jones interview on Norm Hitzges this morning (which I know no one listens to these things anymore on this board, since it detracts from good ***** and moan posts without any semblence of research or study into the arguments), you would hear Norm say that if you talk to anyone inside the Cowboys organization they are very, very, very, very high on what they've seen out of Henson.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post Cowboys loss illogical ***** and moan routine.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Let's look through the first 4 games:

Atlanta - 27-13 LOST Threw for 268 yards 1TD 1INT.
NY Giants - 35-32 WIN Threw for 321 yards 1 INT 1 rushing TD.
NY Jets - 17-6 WIN Threw for 165 1TD and 1INT
Arizona 24-7 WIN Threw for 277 yards 2TD's 1 INT

Record 3-1 1031 passing yards. 5Td's total, 4INT's.

So far, through 4 games, VT has 1017 yards, 4TD's 4INT's with a 2-2 record.

There's your statistics. Not to mention that we were scoring more points at this point in the season.

Go buy your bus ticket now.

Curious here Jim. Where were we ranked defensively 4 games in? What were the defenses and offenses we played ranked? How many penalties had we given up? How was our running game? The whole picture Jim, not just piece you want us to look at. You know yourself that the stats are not going to bear out. Never mind looking at this thing 16 games in. At least act like your trying to fair about this Jim.

 

[Jimz31]

There's another reason why Vinnie won't face as much flack as Carter did, and that is that everyone, but EVERYONE, from Jerry Jones on down knows VT is an interim, caretaker QB.

With Quincy, every flaw major or minor, was a reminder that years of "that" could stretch out...a decade of 'not quite good enough' QB play. That made his not developing 'enough' as scary a thought, or MORE scary, than his outright failure. Hence, the undercurrent that was always present that his quick and complete failure was hoped for. And hence the criticism of his game even in wins when not many points were scored.

With Vin, hey, he ain't starting next year. Period.

And he also draws some good will from his 'mentoring' status.

There are many reasons, and some of them very good, why even a season in hell with Vinnie won't draw the same concern/criticism as one with a "developing QB" you could be saddled with ad infintum, one who was just good enough to beat out non-entities ike Chad, (a default battle) but never good enough to make us consistently competitive.

And I'm fine with that logic, however, what I'm saying to some of these people is "Don't tell me that you look at all QB's through the same prism and then show through silence or excuses that you really don't."

Some people just don't like being called out on it.

 

[Jimz31]

Curious here Jim. Where were we ranked defensively 4 games in? What were the defenses and offenses we played ranked? How many penalties had we given up? How was our running game? The whole picture Jim, not just piece you want us to look at. You know yourself that the stats are not going to bear out. Never mind looking at this thing 16 games in. At least act like your trying to fair about this Jim.

Oh, now the defense scored these points? We didn't start out the #1 defense that didn't come until week 3 or 4 I believe.

You wanted stats.....I gave them to you. NOW, you say, "Well, what about the defense?"

What does that have to do with QC yards, TD's and INT's?

You asked for statistics "to this point". I gave them to you and you will continue to try to deny it.

More yards, better record, more TD production and same INT's. Yeah, VT is MUCH better.

Honestly, VT SHOULD be much better than QC.....more weapons, longer tenure, etc.

 

[Jimz31]

Curious here Jim. Where were we ranked defensively 4 games in? What were the defenses and offenses we played ranked? How many penalties had we given up? How was our running game? The whole picture Jim, not just piece you want us to look at. You know yourself that the stats are not going to bear out. Never mind looking at this thing 16 games in. At least act like your trying to fair about this Jim.

Oh yeah, "fair" you asked for statistics up to this point....I give them and then you change the "rules" after you've been given them and say that I'M not being fair?

 

[blindzebra]

What's my "agenda" slick?

I refused to point the finger at HIM as the sole reason we lost. That was all that I did.

Now, I'm waiting on these same people to react the same way this year as they did last year. Is that too hard for you to do? It could have been ANY young QB that faced the same ridiculous criticiscm that alot of you lobbed his way.

That's what it came down to last year....ridiculous criticism. I understand the criticism to a point, but to the extent that alot of people took it? Nope.

Your agenda is you are not and were not ON THE FENCE, you use it as a safe place to take shots.

I've said it twice before, so either you are too dense or just don't want to see it, VINNY IS A STOP GAP, SO WE DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that clear enough for you or do I need to repeat it again?

 

[Jimz31]

Your agenda is you are not and were not ON THE FENCE, you use it as a safe place to take shots.

I've said it twice before, so either you are too dense or just don't want to see it, VINNY IS A STOP GAP, SO WE DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that clear enough for you or do I need to repeat it again?

I've known that that is how you feel, but doesn't dismiss the fact that I just decided not to ridiculously criticize him and say that HE was the reason why we lost and crap like that. You say it is a safe place to take shots. I say it was the only place where EVERYBODY should be with a young QB. You act like they should all be seasoned veterans.....yeah, that's a really good way to look at it.

 

[Tio]

Im tired of Carter fans claiming to be unbiased. Carter was horrible last season. Why people will defend him no matter how he plays is beyond me.