So Many Terrible Draft Picks

WillieBeamen

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I stand corrected. You refuse to define elite. Now I need help coming from a guy too scared to say what it is. lol.
You want to know what an Elite QB looks like?

Aaron Rodgers

If you or anyone else think Dak is anywhere near Rodgers in terms of talent and on the field play, youre insane
 

mattjames2010

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:banghead:

I am going to knock myself unconscious if I have to read this again.

Jack got benched as a WILL and MLB. He's playing SAM now. He would not have been help at MLB just like Smith.

His rookie year? It's his second season. And I never mentioned anything about MLB, you did. Don't put words in my mouth.

In his second year, he's ranked #25 - not elite, but he's trending upwards. You have nothing on the claims you are making here about "bombing out" - he's actually been ranked fairly high all season, and I've been looking every week.

Don't respond to me just to argue.

Myles Jack

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/myles-jack/10670

Jaylon Smith

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jaylon-smith/10668

I remember you fanboying about Smith when he was coming out of college like loser scouts fascinated by his athletics. Want to review his college film with me again? I can sit you down and walk you through it this time.
 

PJTHEDOORS

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Dak is 2nd in the NFL for QBR. Behind the injured Deshaun Watson. Tom Brady is 5th. Poor Dak, he isn't #1, so he isn't elite.
 

Kaiser

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You want to know what an Elite QB looks like?

Aaron Rodgers

If you or anyone else think Dak is anywhere near Rodgers in terms of talent and on the field play, youre insane

1.5 years into his career Rodgers had 25 passing attempts and zero NFL starts. But sure, keep digging this hole deeper.
 

PJTHEDOORS

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You want to know what an Elite QB looks like?

Aaron Rodgers

If you or anyone else think Dak is anywhere near Rodgers in terms of talent and on the field play, youre insane

So ONLY Rodgers is elite, and every other QB in the NFL isn't. Otay. I guess you missed the last 2 games we played vs Green Bay, when Dak wasn't the reason we lost, it was the defense.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/400951661
http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400927749
 

AzorAhai

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Yep.

I think the Heath experiment probably needs to end as well. Let Woods learn out there. He's not perfect but shown enough to be given a chance.

Even with my additions, there isn't a ton of depth on defense so basically if you are picking in the first round and the BPA is a DE or DT or LB or S, you have the luxury to take any of them and find a home for them.

The problem with this franchise is that they lately think they can fix all holes in the draft. It never works out like that. Being smart in FA gives you some leeway in the draft and gives you a safety net. So maybe the Cowboys want a stud LB. Great. I agree. But you can't just assume that the draft will net you one for sure. That's wise to go out and grab a mid-level guy at LB like a Woodard or Brown and that's an insurance policy for you.
The problem with not being active in FA is simply attrition of a roster. Contracts are shorter and you can’t plug all the holes you need to without going outside of the draft. You can’t hit on enough draft picks to do that. So every year this philosophy ends up just shifting holes around from one place to another. It’s a constant game of catch up.

You can tread water or marginally improve if you consistently have above average drafts, but miss on a couple of picks and it can be an absolute disaster. They’ve basically given themselves no avenue of improvement except drafting.
 

Sydla

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His rookie year? It's his second season. And I never mentioned anything about MLB, you did. Don't put words in my mouth.

In his second year, he's ranked #25 - not elite, but he's trending upwards. You have nothing on the claims you are making here about "bombing out" - he's actually been ranked fairly high all season, and I've been looking every week.

Don't respond to me just to argue.

It's not about arguing. It's about looking at this logically.

Smith was brought in here to be a MLB (which is a mistake, he's a WILL but that's another discussion). So when one says we should have taken Jack over Smith, it's likely to be a MLB, because that's the comparison some of you are trying to make.

Jack was handed the WILL job as a rookie. He bombed out and got benched. In the offseason, the JAGs realized he couldn't be a WILL in their system, so they movedPozluzny to SAM and handed Jack the MIKE job. By mid-camp and a few preseason games, they realized he was struggling there too, so they moved him to SAM and put Pozluzny back at MLB. So when people start saying we should have taken Jack as if he somehow would have been the solution when Smith is not, it's important to realize that Jack has pretty much been moved from two other LB positions because he couldn't cut it there and is now playing SAM, a position that we actually pull off the field a ton to play nickel.

And it's interesting that you are OK giving Jack a pass for his first full year playing but apparently Smith is a boob after 9 games in his career.
 

Kaiser

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WHO have we hit on on defense?

Irving wasn't a draft pick, we snagged him off the practice squad. Claiborne? Considered a bust here, made it one season after his rookie year before hitting the road. Randy Gregory? Drug addicted bum. Byron Jones? It's fun watching his ankles get broke weekly by a TE in the red zone. Brown? You guys had fun overrating this scrub last season, how does he look now? Collins? LOL ranked as one of the worst DTs in the league. Tapper?

You must have missed this but we have used most of our top draft picks on offense. For guys like Hitchens, Collins, Crawford, Wilson, Brown, Lewis and Heath they have played at or above what you would expect from a draft pick in the round they were drafted in.
 

mattjames2010

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It's not about arguing. It's about looking at this logically.

Smith was brought in here to be a MLB (which is a mistake, he's a WILL but that's another discussion). So when one says we should have taken Jack over Smith, it's likely to be a MLB, because that's the comparison some of you are trying to make.

Jack was handed the WILL job as a rookie. He bombed out and got benched. In the offseason, the JAGs realized he couldn't be a WILL in their system, so they benched Pozluzny and handed Jack the MIKE job. By the camp, they realized he was struggling there too, so they moved him to SAM and put Pozluzny back at MLB. So when people start saying we should have taken Jack as if he somehow would have been the solution when Smith is not, it's important to realize that Jack has pretty much been moved from two other LB positions because he couldn't cut it there and is now playing SAM, a position that we actually pull off the field a ton to play nickel.

And it's interesting that you are OK giving Jack a pass for his first full year playing but apparently Smith is a boob after 9 games in his career.

"When one says"

It's not what I said. So it's irrelevant and an assumption. Don't waste my time.

I don't care if Jack was handed anything, he's simply playing at an acceptable and good level. Whatever excuses you make, he has been playing well. He is looking to be the better pick.

And also, more claims on your part. "Bombed" is still your use of word - again, I have kept track of his grades all season, and he's been at average to good all year.

Back your **** up - I wanted Jack because he showed himself to be a versatile player and also showed a unique skill of being able to cover slot receivers even when going to the outside. Smith simply had sideline to sideline speed but no intellect at all.

Again, would you like to go through the college film? I don't think I ever saw Smith not get fooled on a fake.
 

Sydla

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You must have missed this but we have used most of our top draft picks on offense. For guys like Hitchens, Collins, Crawford, Wilson, Brown, Lewis and Heath they have played at or above what you would expect from a draft pick in the round they were drafted in.

Yeah that's not true when you look at the first two rounds since 2010:

2017 - Charlton, Awuzie
2016 - Smith
2015 - Jones, Gregory
2014 - Lawrence
2013 -
2012 - Claiborne
2011 - Carter
2010 - Lee

So in the last 8 drafts, we've spent 9 top picks out of 15 (we didn't have a #2 in 2012) on defense. In the last 5 years, we've spent 6 out of 10 top picks on defense.
 

mattjames2010

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You must have missed this but we have used most of our top draft picks on offense. For guys like Hitchens, Collins, Crawford, Wilson, Brown, Lewis and Heath they have played at or above what you would expect from a draft pick in the round they were drafted in.

Damien Wilson? LOL so a roleplayer, who is also graded as bad
Collins was drafted in the third, he's ranked as one of the worst DTs in the league. What are you even on about?
Crawford is considered by many here to be a scrub who should be rotational, and while I'm not hard on him, he's no one to write home about

Brown is trash, Lewis is a rookie, Heath is awful.

So what do we have? Hitchens and Crawford, who are at best, average players and Lawrence.
 

john van brocklin

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Yikes.

In fairness though Foster had injury issues coming out of Bama and if I read correctly, yesterday was the first game all year he actually finished without getting hurt. But he's a machine when healthy.
Guys, hindsight is always 20/20.
You roll the dice on these players.
You hit on a few and a few bust.
I think we have drafted as well as most teams.
 

Sydla

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"When one says"

It's not what I said. So it's irrelevant and an assumption. Don't waste my time.

I don't care if Jack was handed anything, he's simply playing at an acceptable and good level. Whatever excuses you make, he has been playing well. He is looking to be the better pick.

And also, more claims on your part. "Bombed" is still your use of word - again, I have kept track of his grades all season, and he's been at average to good all year.

Back your **** up - I wanted Jack because he showed himself to be a versatile player and also showed a unique skill of being able to cover slot receivers even when going to the outside. Smith simply had sideline to sideline speed but no intellect at all.

Again, would you like to go through the college film? I don't think I ever saw Smith not get fooled on a fake.

As a SAM. A position that we don't put a lot of premium on in our defense. This defense would not be noticeably better with Jack. That's not a defense of Smith who sucks. They should have taken Chris Jones or A'Shawn Robinson or someone else. But Jack is not the answer here either, especially if they were taking him to be a MLB like they did with Smith.

Are you actually denying he played sparingly last year and was moved back to SAM after he struggled at MLB this year? He was struggling to read plays and get off blocks and was overrunning plays causing him to miss tackles at MLB in camp and preseason games so they moved him to SAM and he plays there in base and then in their nickel as a coverage LB.
 
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mattjames2010

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As a SAM. A position that we don't put a lot of premium on in our defense. This defense would not be noticeably better with Jack. That's not a defense of Smith who sucks. They should have taken Jones, the DT or someone else. But Jack is not the answer either.

Are you actually denying he played sparingly last year and was moved back to SAM after he struggled at MLB this year?

Back. Your. ****. Up.

https://www.news4jax.com/sports/nfl/jaguars/myles-jack-reaching-potential-in-year-2-with-jaguars

I didn't deny anything last year, last season is irrelevant at this point. He was a rookie in rotation - it's not about making mistakes, it's the fact that Smith looks absolutely lost, baffled, avoids contact, and still looks as though his knee isn't right and we have no idea if it will ever be the same.

Nowhere does it indicate that Jack "bombed out" - like you are stating. He has been given more of a role this year, to the point he's been allowed to command the other players (as mentioned in his article) - the HC loves him and praises him.

And I don't think ONLY Jack would have made this "noticeably different" - which is why I mentioned Ramsey and Collins, both players many here wanted on draft day. Instead we chose gym rats and jersey sellers.
 

Sydla

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Back. Your. ****. Up.

https://www.news4jax.com/sports/nfl/jaguars/myles-jack-reaching-potential-in-year-2-with-jaguars

I didn't deny anything last year, last season is irrelevant at this point. He was a rookie in rotation - it's not about making mistakes, it's the fact that Smith looks absolutely lost, baffled, avoids contact, and still looks as though his knee isn't right and we have no idea if it will ever be the same.

Nowhere does it indicate that Jack "bombed out" - like you are stating. He has been given more of a role this year, to the point he's been allowed to command the other players (as mentioned in his article) - the HC loves him and praises him.

And I don't think ONLY Jack would have made this "noticeably different" - which is why I mentioned Ramsey and Collins, both players many here wanted on draft day. Instead we chose gym rats and jersey sellers.

Here you go:

Wash believed Jack would able to adjust quickly and make an immediate impact because of athleticism and run-stopping skills. Despite working at middle linebacker throughout the off-season program, Jack had a difficult time adjusting.

It was clearly noticeable throughout training camp that Jack continued to struggle getting off blocks quickly enough to make stops on inside run plays.

He also had a problem overpursuing some plays that caused him to miss tackles.

By the second preseason game against Tampa Bay, the Jaguars decided to change plans for Jack. Instead of playing middle linebacker in their base defense, they moved him to strong-side linebacker.

And last year is somewhat relevant because it shows a kid who was completely lost to the point he didn't play much is now playing better according to you. How about you give Smith that same kind of leeway? You are essentially comparing a kid who was able to play and practice last year to a kid who experienced his first NFL action three months ago.

If Smith sucks again next year, you can crow to all the board how you were right about him. And you very well might be accurate, as I have never denied that. Smith might be forever broken.
 
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