Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[rkell87]

Cory Fravel ‏@CoryFravel
My sources confirm an agreement in principle has been reached for Clemson to join the Big12.

 

[MC KAos]

Cory Fravel ‏@CoryFravel
My sources confirm an agreement in principle has been reached for Clemson to join the Big12.

wait.....WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[rkell87]

wait.....WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I do not know this persons level of credibility but he seems to be close to the situation and I thought I would pass it along. We all know that agreed in principle still means they are weeks/months away from official.

 

[jobberone]

I have fairly reliable but third hand info that FSU and Clemson will join around the end of June or early July.

 

[DFWJC]

crickets......................

Are you guys still certain that Clemson and FSU are going to bail on the ACC for the Big 12?

I guess Notre Dame too. Miami and others as well.

Sorry but the thread was heading into to such certainty-like territory, I wanted to ask.

 

[rkell87]

the most important information to all of this came out today, the big 12 and the sec have come out publicly stating that they are in favor of the top 4 ranked teams in the nation being in the playoff with strength of schedule being a major factor in the formula. Every other conference has come out stating that they want the conference champions to be the teams in the playoffs.

so basically what the big 12 does will depend on how the playoff system is set up. Right now in the sec, you can lose one or two games and still end up in the top 4 based on strength of schedule, maybe even get 2 teams in the playoffs(as would have happened this year) and the big 12 likes that if they win all their games, they are guaranteed a spot because they get to play in a good conference and play all the members. If the playoff set up is conference champions, then obviously the big 12 will want to expand so that they can get two divisions, hence having to win less games on the way to being conference champions yet, still securing a playoff spot.

 

[MC KAos]

I have fairly reliable but third hand info that FSU and Clemson will join around the end of June or early July.

crickets......................

Are you guys still certain that Clemson and FSU are going to bail on the ACC for the Big 12?

I guess Notre Dame too. Miami and others as well.

Sorry but the thread was heading into to such certainty-like territory, I wanted to ask.

last time i checked, its still may

 

[jobberone]

Ok latest greatest still all rumor. Something happened yesterday but don't know what. Rumor now less than fifty % chance Clemson goes to Big 12 although they want out of ACC for sure. Key is still ND. Clemson wanting to join SEC more so than Big 12. I'm starting to think delay is all ND. Clemson and FSU still appear to be a Package.

 

[jterrell]

Ok latest greatest still all rumor. Something happened yesterday but don't know what. Rumor now less than fifty % chance Clemson goes to Big 12 although they want out of ACC for sure. Key is still ND. Clemson wanting to join SEC more so than Big 12. I'm starting to think delay is all ND. Clemson and FSU still appear to be a Package.

what broke was that notre dame is agreeing to go to b12 as partial member. i.e. all but football (at least until 2016).... super sux.

clemson would LOVE to be in B12 but wont get invite if ND comes in as a partial.

They'd try to get FSU to stick but that gets trickier.

Clemson has no SEC invite and likely wont get one. FSU either.

ut is pushing hardcore for notre dame as partial with agreement for 4 games versus big 12 teams.

all about money; like always.
big 12 gets more money with notre dame even as a partial.

i'd much rather have clemson and fsu in together as full members and quite happy.

may end up with louisville who badly wants in at all costs and partial ND....


sources: gswaim and dudeofwv and they have been right about many of this stuff long before it breaks.

 

[rkell87]

what broke was that notre dame is agreeing to go to b12 as partial member. i.e. all but football (at least until 2016).... super sux.

clemson would LOVE to be in B12 but wont get invite if ND comes in as a partial.

They'd try to get FSU to stick but that gets trickier.

Clemson has no SEC invite and likely wont get one. FSU either.

ut is pushing hardcore for notre dame as partial with agreement for 4 games versus big 12 teams.

all about money; like always.
big 12 gets more money with notre dame even as a partial.

i'd much rather have clemson and fsu in together as full members and quite happy.

may end up with louisville who badly wants in at all costs and partial ND....


sources: gswaim and dudeofwv and they have been right about many of this stuff long before it breaks.

gswaim?

as in geoff swaim they juco TE that just committed to texas? lol seems super coincidental

 

[jterrell]

gswaim?

as in geoff swaim they juco TE that just committed to texas? lol seems super coincidental

greg swaim, big-time osu source.
greg swaim hates ut as much as any aggie or sooner.

he runs a sports talk show and other sports related businesses.
gets lots of inside info.

i have been following him for about a year and a half and he was spot on in the last re-alignment as well as with providing hard facts around dates, agrendas for board of trustee meetings.

apparently ut agreed to take on clemson and fsu if notre dame wouldn't come in; but deloss dodds has been working tirelessly to get notre dame on board at all costs.

notre dame is a wildcard because the league will agree to whatever they want basically to lock them up as the big fish. and unlike most schools notre dame does seem to have leaks....

rumor is nd agreed in the past 48 hours to leave the big east and accept big 12 invitation for all olympic sports while remaining independent in football.
their nbc contract runs through 2016 and isnt expected to be renewed as is.

the big 12 will truly be the conference of big egos if this happens and it is very likely.

what people fail to realize is notre dame wasnt ever going to join the big 10 and give away 3rd tier rights. their 3rd tier rights are worth a mint. ut realizes this and is using that to reel them in.

 

[jterrell]

as an added note this could all be a smokescreen because nbc is trying to renew ND contract at 20-24m per year long term. i think ND is crazy to take that deal but if they do then it removes them from all major conference considerations and sets road maps.

they could still join b12 as olympic member but not for football but without possible football inclusion much less impressive addition.

so we shall see in next few weeks if not days.

b12 ADs all wanted fsu, many were leery of clemson. but fsu wants clemson as partner.

 

[rkell87]

greg swaim, big-time osu source.
greg swaim hates ut as much as any aggie or sooner.

he runs a sports talk show and other sports related businesses.
gets lots of inside info.

i have been following him for about a year and a half and he was spot on in the last re-alignment as well as with providing hard facts around dates, agrendas for board of trustee meetings.

apparently ut agreed to take on clemson and fsu if notre dame wouldn't come in; but deloss dodds has been working tirelessly to get notre dame on board at all costs.

notre dame is a wildcard because the league will agree to whatever they want basically to lock them up as the big fish. and unlike most schools notre dame does seem to have leaks....

rumor is nd agreed in the past 48 hours to leave the big east and accept big 12 invitation for all olympic sports while remaining independent in football.
their nbc contract runs through 2016 and isnt expected to be renewed as is.

the big 12 will truly be the conference of big egos if this happens and it is very likely.

what people fail to realize is notre dame wasnt ever going to join the big 10 and give away 3rd tier rights. their 3rd tier rights are worth a mint. ut realizes this and is using that to reel them in.

that is cool, just funny I had never heard the name before now i know two

 

[jobberone]

BTW, the Raycom thing is one reason Clemson wants out of the ACC. They could have had a bigger contract with a network but the commish's son works at Raycom.

 

[DFWJC]

We'll see guys.

I know a month or so ago it was sure thing by some of you guys. I live in Big 12 country bbut I don't see the big overall advantage that you guys see.

FSU and Clemson leaving the ACC for the Big 12? I know a LOT of insiders at both schools, ironically, and I would wager that at least for now, it is a "NO".

 

[jterrell]

We'll see guys.

I know a month or so ago it was sure thing by some of you guys. I live in Big 12 country bbut I don't see the big overall advantage that you guys see.

FSU and Clemson leaving the ACC for the Big 12? I know a LOT of insiders at both schools, ironically, and I would wager that at least for now, it is a "NO".

both schools have had trustees state publicly they'd strongly consider the b12.

that may have been posturing but i am not sure the acc has much to offer.

you are correct about raycom and t3 rights and it is made worse because the acc commish's son has raycom ties.

3-4m less per year on tier 1 and tier 2 rights isnt the fight. the fight is tossing in t3 for pennies to raycom.

the acc simply isnt competitive in football. it is a basketball heavyweight with smallish football budgets and smaller results on the field.

florida state was a national powerhouse BEFORE joining the ACC and Clemson is a football crazy school stuck in a 2nd tier football conference.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

as an added note this could all be a smokescreen because nbc is trying to renew ND contract at 20-24m per year long term. i think ND is crazy to take that deal but if they do then it removes them from all major conference considerations and sets road maps.

they could still join b12 as olympic member but not for football but without possible football inclusion much less impressive addition.

so we shall see in next few weeks if not days.

b12 ADs all wanted fsu, many were leery of clemson. but fsu wants clemson as partner.

Clemson screwed themselves when they made the comments about the Big 12 and that if they were considering jumping conferences, the Big 12 would not be where they wanted to go. Should have never said that. It was stupid to say the least.

If you just brought in ND and FSU, that would be huge for the Big 12 and you are correct. Both FSU and Clemson have since stated publicly that they would seriously consider a move to the Big 12. FSU has practically demanded that their board of trusties accept this proposal. Only the Faculty seems to be against this. They sight the Big 12s academic standing but lets face it. FSU is not an academic powerhouse themselves.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Just to clarify a few things.

Swaim and Dude of WV (Dude was talking about this stuff MONTHS before others) are not exactly on the same page on all of this.

The big difference here is Swaim is saying Clemson is out now...Dude is not saying that.

Dude is still saying Clemson is still in play.


Couple other things of note they are reporting... ND, if they join the B12, would be partial members (olympic but non football) but would agree to play around 6 games vs B12 teams. The question is would that partial membership remain that way or would that be with the understanding that they would agree to join football as well once the NBC contract is over. Now with the talk of them wanting to redo the NBC contract we don't know if that is a ploy or not for other means.

Personally I would only bring them in if they agreed to become full members after the existing contract runs out...and that would have to be an iron clad agreement. NO WAY would I want them to pull another situation like they had/have in the big east...trust me guys you don't want it either.

More of Where Swaim and Dude are different. Swaim seems to think that if ND does come in as partial members than Clemson would not...that clemson was a fall back to ND.
Dude thinks that it would be a 12.5 situation.

By that I mean that we would have 12 full members and a partial member and he has said this for some time so it is nothing new.

Also it was the Clemson HC that talked about not wanting to go to the Big12. I might remind you that the coach does not run the school. In some cases a HC might have a good amount of pull but let's not put Dabo in the same Category that some coaches have had in the past Like Bowden or Joe Pa.

Also just because a coach says something like that it does not always mean much. It was just this past year that a more established head coach (basketball not football) Jim Boeheim was not happy about Syracuse leaving the Big East to the ACC. Sometimes coaches say what is in their hearts and are honest...but that does not mean they determine what will happen and it does not mean they always speak for the University.

Now if Clemson is really out, it does not mean that ND is taking it's slot. It could be a situation where ND said they would join but they would rather have another school join instead of clemson (say a GT). This is just an idea here...I have not heard that is the case. However I imagine ND is playing it's cards and waiting on the best deal they can get and you know the ACC really wants them and I have heard that UT really wants them in the big 12 so there might be some compromises made to lure them in.

Time will tell how this all shakes out.



Oh...nice to see that the Raycom story is gaining traction.

 

[jterrell]

Clemson screwed themselves when they made the comments about the Big 12 and that if they were considering jumping conferences, the Big 12 would not be where they wanted to go. Should have never said that. It was stupid to say the least.

If you just brought in ND and FSU, that would be huge for the Big 12 and you are correct. Both FSU and Clemson have since stated publicly that they would seriously consider a move to the Big 12. FSU has practically demanded that their board of trusties accept this proposal. Only the Faculty seems to be against this. They sight the Big 12s academic standing but lets face it. FSU is not an academic powerhouse themselves.

FSU ranks middle of the road for academic ranking versus big 12 schools. They were at 101 in the latest us news and world rankings which tied them with Oklahoma and Kansas but put them well behind UT and Baylor while still below TCU and Iowa State.

FSU needs to make more money period. They really have next to choice. The money people want the move badly and in any business money people win out ultimately.

Clemson and FSU would both welcome SEC invites but Florida isn't blessing that. FSU probably has no better offer than the Big 12 and they badly need the offer. Both because they can't recruit as well in the ACC and because they are desperate for higher pay outs which can be used to higher faculty.

Clemson did take a small misstep as ADs are prideful people but they did so because the big 12 made it known they were a back up plan. Doesn't look like a marriage there so we'll see how it all falls after June 26th.

My guess is early July we see movement again and hopefully movement that is official. With realignment nothing is done until it is done. And the wheels are always turning.

 

[jterrell]

Just to clarify a few things.

Swaim and Dude of WV (Dude was talking about this stuff MONTHS before others) are not exactly on the same page on all of this.

The big difference here is Swaim is saying Clemson is out now...Dude is not saying that.

Dude is still saying Clemson is still in play.


Couple other things of note they are reporting... ND, if they join the B12, would be partial members (olympic but non football) but would agree to play around 6 games vs B12 teams. The question is would that partial membership remain that way or would that be with the understanding that they would agree to join football as well once the NBC contract is over. Now with the talk of them wanting to redo the NBC contract we don't know if that is a ploy or not for other means.

Personally I would only bring them in if they agreed to become full members after the existing contract runs out...and that would have to be an iron clad agreement. NO WAY would I want them to pull another situation like they had/have in the big east...trust me guys you don't want it either.

More of Where Swaim and Dude are different. Swaim seems to think that if ND does come in as partial members than Clemson would not...that clemson was a fall back to ND.
Dude thinks that it would be a 12.5 situation.

By that I mean that we would have 12 full members and a partial member and he has said this for some time so it is nothing new.

Also it was the Clemson HC that talked about not wanting to go to the Big12. I might remind you that the coach does not run the school. In some cases a HC might have a good amount of pull but let's not put Dabo in the same Category that some coaches have had in the past Like Bowden or Joe Pa.

Also just because a coach says something like that it does not always mean much. It was just this past year that a more established head coach (basketball not football) Jim Boeheim was not happy about Syracuse leaving the Big East to the ACC. Sometimes coaches say what is in their hearts and are honest...but that does not mean they determine what will happen and it does not mean they always speak for the University.

Now if Clemson is really out, it does not mean that ND is taking it's slot. It could be a situation where ND said they would join but they would rather have another school join instead of clemson (say a GT). This is just an idea here...I have not heard that is the case. However I imagine ND is playing it's cards and waiting on the best deal they can get and you know the ACC really wants them and I have heard that UT really wants them in the big 12 so there might be some compromises made to lure them in.

Time will tell how this all shakes out.



Oh...nice to see that the Raycom story is gaining traction.

Good stuff and glad you broke down the differences there.
BTW, the Clemson fan base is remarkably in favor of a Big 12 move.
Like 75% in favor according to polls on 247clemson....

Dude has the WVA perspective and really dislikes ND.
GSwaim has OSU/OU perspective and really hates UT passionately.

But both have great sources.

Louisville is a sleeper as they have never hidden that they want in and have Congressional backing and Papa Johns money willing to pour money into facilities as needed to get the invite.

Word is Big 12 ADs are now being picky lead by DeLoss. They want Notre Dame terribly. They want Florida State. They are ho hum on Clemson(apparently willing only if they come with a partner that raises pay outs) and they are giving Louisville a stiff arm even though they were a really strong possibility over TCU until Neinas told them they were being silly.

And as a Clemson coach I'd rather avoid the Big 12 for sure.
UT, OU, OSU, WVA, TCU?? No thanks. Give me Pitt, Syracuse, Georgia Tech, UNC for sure. They get to keep FSU as well if they move. Coaches like winning games because that's how they get more money. Universities get more money from conference affiliation.
The Big 12 is the toughest football conference in the country. It isn't as good at the top as the SEC but it is the deepest and toughest at the bottom by far.