Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[ABQCOWBOY]

FSU won both of its National Titles as an ACC member. Clemson won one as a member as well. Just a reminder.
I think they're on the way up again now as well.

These things trend up and down. That conference has several very good football programs that have underachieved lately. And then above and beyond football, well, they are outstanding.

It's a wild environment out there right now with a lot of knee-jerk reactions being made based on short-term objectives tied to an uncertain future...so I guess anything is possible.

The problem for FSU is that even with the bump in their TV revenue share, they are still well into the red and this is new facilities not withstanding. FSU needs to upgrade their facilities in the worst way if they are to stay competitive. This is a big problem for the University. I don't know how they might solve that without making a move?

 

[DFWJC]

The problem for FSU is that even with the bump in their TV revenue share, they are still well into the red and this is new facilities not withstanding. FSU needs to upgrade their facilities in the worst way if they are to stay competitive. This is a big problem for the University. I don't know how they might solve that without making a move?

We've discussed this before I think.
Special projects like stadium renovations come from special booster fund-raising projects more often than not.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. In these whacky times, I'll never say never.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We've discussed this before I think.
Special projects like stadium renovations come from special booster fund-raising projects more often than not.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. In these whacky times, I'll never say never.

We have discussed this. I agree that many times Stadium improvements etc. come from private boosters but FSU has needed new facilities for probably 10 years now. Nothing has been done so I don't know how far along any private contributions have gotten. They need cash flow and they don't have it. That's a big, big problem for the Seminoles.

Like you, I have no idea what will happen but I do know that there is a huge push for the Seminoles to jump conferences right now.

 

[Rogah]

Really, what have you seen on a proposed playoff format? I personally have seen nothing but would be interested in any info you have that might shed light on what is to be proposed?

ESPN.com covers the subject quite thoroughly, you should check 'em out sometime. There really isn't much left to discuss, they're pretty much settled on 4 teams, the only question is how those teams are going to be chosen. General consensus is there will be a selection committee and it will not involve using a BCS-style formula.

Seriously, though. http://www.espn.com - useful stuff there.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

ESPN.com covers the subject quite thoroughly, you should check 'em out sometime. There really isn't much left to discuss, they're pretty much settled on 4 teams, the only question is how those teams are going to be chosen. General consensus is there will be a selection committee and it will not involve using a BCS-style formula.

Seriously, though. http://www.espn.com - useful stuff there.

This is not what I have heard reported recently. From what I have heard, there are multiple options that will be proposed, based on meetings that took place just this week, which your link refers to. I too have heard it reported that the 4 team model is the most popular option but it doesn't really say how the four teams will be selected.

I do agree that if ND is not forced to join, they won't. However, ESPN is pretty key here. ESPN would rather ND be affiliated with a Super Conference as opposed to being independent. Independent means NBC and ESPN/ABC would go a long way to kill that. Obviously, Texas would like to see ND join the Big 12 so this is why I say a lot will depend on how the Playoff format is constructed. If more consideration is given to teams in Power Conferences, then ND will probably have to join a conference in order to get consideration. While ND has a considerable following, they just are not that good anymore and they don't recruit well enough to make up the gap. They currently have exception in the BCS but if they don't get that same kind of sweetheart deal on this next go around, then I think they probably have to join up. That's really what it comes down to IMO.

Will be interesting to watch as it unfolds.

 

[jobberone]

I think the idea that ND is trying to leverage the Big 12 is a sure thing. They have done this for years with the Big 10 and the Big East so it's a sure thing that they are doing the same with the Big 12. The difference is that because of the consideration for a Playoff format, it's possible that ND may be forced to join a conference. We don't know if that is a reality yet because we don't know the details of any approved Playoff format. If ND is not forced to join a conference, then they absolutely won't. To me, it's a question of who has more influence in College Football? If ND does, then it's likely that there won't be any playoff agreement that forces them to join a Conference. If it's Texas or ESPN, then it's likely that something will be adopted that will force ND to join a conference and that conference will almost assuredly be the Big 12 if no exceptions or changes are made to the Big 10 etc.

JMO

Yeah, my thoughts, too. They're playing the Big 12 against the network to get more money. They have not wanted to be apart of any conference ever. But you're right. The rules are likely to change. If they find themselves on the outside of the BCS then they may be forced. I'm not convinced they are going to be on the outside though. Which will piss me off. Again I take Clemson and FSU and don't look back. They can always add ND and BYU as well and be a really big dog (pun intended Big Dog).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, my thoughts, too. They're playing the Big 12 against the network to get more money. They have not wanted to be apart of any conference ever. But you're right. The rules are likely to change. If they find themselves on the outside of the BCS then they may be forced. I'm not convinced they are going to be on the outside though. Which will piss me off. Again I take Clemson and FSU and don't look back. They can always add ND and BYU as well and be a really big dog (pun intended Big Dog).

If ND does not join, I am not certain that BYU will either. BYU follows what ND does pretty closely. It's a mess but I hope it starts to clear up soon. Before you know it, it will be time to kick butt on these guys and that can't happen if they don't play us.

 

[Rogah]

This is not what I have heard reported recently. From what I have heard, there are multiple options that will be proposed, based on meetings that took place just this week, which your link refers to. I too have heard it reported that the 4 team model is the most popular option but it doesn't really say how the four teams will be selected.

Your most recent post says, quoting you, " I personally have seen nothing." Apparently that was a lie.

I apologize for thinking you were interested in discussing the matter intelligently when instead you're apparently more interested in sarcastic, beligerent comments directed at those who dare disagree with you.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Your most recent post says, quoting you, " I personally have seen nothing." Apparently that was a lie.

I apologize for thinking you were interested in discussing the matter intelligently when instead you're apparently more interested in sarcastic, beligerent comments directed at those who dare disagree with you.

Really? No problem. We won't have that problem again.

For the Record, here is what I actually said.

"Really, what have you seen on a proposed playoff format? I personally have seen nothing but would be interested in any info you have that might shed light on what is to be proposed?"


You posted a link that said it was a 4 team format and a link that gave no specifics and didn't even confirm that it was, in fact, conclusive as a 4 team format.

Have a good day.

 

[Rogah]

Another problem I would have with them being a perm partial member is that I imagine that Texas would want to work some deal where they were always one of the teams that ND would play instead of it being a system where it would rotate to every team in the big12.

I'm not so sure Texas would want that. Texas is one of the few teams who gets national attention no matter whom they play. They don't need Notre Dame to get national attention on their games. I could see them happy with a 2-on, 2-off setup like they currently have scheduled through 2020.

 

[jterrell]

FSU won both of its National Titles as an ACC member (I think that equals OU and UT combined since 1990). Clemson won one as a member as well. Just a reminder.
I think they're on the way up again now as well.

These things trend up and down. That conference has several very good football programs that have underachieved lately. And then above and beyond football, well, they are outstanding.

It's a wild environment out there right now with a lot of knee-jerk reactions being made based on short-term objectives tied to an uncertain future...so I guess anything is possible.

The ACC is 2-13 in BCS games... for an idea of how bad that is compare the Big East at 7-7(though WVA had a lot to do with that). The ACC is simply terrible in football. It has a few middle of the raid programs but no one in that conference is a good bet to win a bowl game in any given year. They are a basketball conference with strong academic traditions.

FSU can't trend far upwards until they get more budget. They have nearly every SEC school outspending them in their own state.

FSU won their titles as part of the 9 team ACC prior to divisions. Not sure why I thought they joined in 2005 when the conference expanded but boy has their football (and finances) been downhill since then.

FSU and Clemson are definitely looking to leave the ACC. That is of zero doubt. And many sources indicate that will happen in July and they'll be full Big 12 members. We shall see. Lot sof stories out there and the ND and BYU stuff is actually coming from B1G folks not Big12.

 

[jterrell]

I'm not so sure Texas would want that. Texas is one of the few teams who gets national attention no matter whom they play. They don't need Notre Dame to get national attention on their games. I could see them happy with a 2-on, 2-off setup like they currently have scheduled through 2020.

You'd be wrong. UT is driving the bus for Notre Dame.

Why? They want Notre Dame on the Longhorn Network in games they play in Austin for all sports other than football and ESPECIALLY in football which they get with a non-conf ND home game.

Notre Dame isn't coming to the Big 12 without at least a guarantee of 4 football games versus B12 conference foes.

All that said what I have become convinced of over the last 24 hours by thedudeofwv is that UT is simply doing their buddies ND a favor by floating this stuff. ND will soon sign a long extension with NBC/Comcast and shortly after the BCS meetings in late June we'll see Clemson and FSU make official their desire to seek a new conference at which time they'll have invites in their back pocket.

ND will still agree to play UT yearly.

This stuff was largely done with the SEC blessing. These two conferences are now in lock step. Something Neinas made sure he did rather than cry about missou or tamu leaving.

 

[DFWJC]

FSU can't trend far upwards until they get more budget. They have nearly every SEC school outspending them in their own state.

.

Yeah.
I noticed that for football revenue the top teams in both conferences ranked like this:

Texas
Oklahoma

big separtation, then

Oklahoma St
Va Tech
Clemson
W Virginia

then Duke basketball (lol)
and UNC basketball ranked ahead of the rest of the football programs in profits

then
Tx Tech football
Ga Tech
NC State
etc

Florida St only turned a 2.6 mil profit with its football program in 2011.


I guess the only hope for OU money (forget Texas money) may be to exit the ACC....though the ACC hoops teams turn a huge profit--more than many Big 12 football teams. The new TV contract in the the Big 12 will pump it up some too.

 

[DFWJC]

The ACC is simply terrible in football. It has a few middle of the raid programs but no one in that conference is a good bet to win a bowl game in any given year. They are a basketball conference with strong academic traditions.

.

The Big 12 has the better bowl record, they've lost about the same number of games (52 vs 53) but have won more (54-45) in the BCS era.

Big 12: 54-52
ACC: 45-53

 

[Rogah]

You'd be wrong. UT is driving the bus for Notre Dame.

Why? They want Notre Dame on the Longhorn Network in games they play in Austin for all sports other than football and ESPECIALLY in football which they get with a non-conf ND home game.

EVERYBODY wants to have home games against Notre Dame. What makes you think UT is any different from the 100 other schools who want ND to come to town? It'll never be an annual thing.

 

[MC KAos]

EVERYBODY wants to have home games against Notre Dame. What makes you think UT is any different from the 100 other schools who want ND to come to town? It'll never be an annual thing.

:money: :money: :money: :money: :money:

 

[Rogah]

:money: :money: :money: :money: :money:

Oh, I understand Texas wants to host Notre Dame because it's more money for them. But the question is how does ND profit? Does Texas plan on paying them to play them every year?

Why would ND feel they need to lock themselves into UT over, say, Alabama, LSU or Florida State?

 

[DFWJC]

Oh, I understand Texas wants to host Notre Dame because it's more money for them. But the question is how does ND profit? Does Texas plan on paying them to play them every year?

Why would ND feel they need to lock themselves into UT over, say, Alabama, LSU or Florida State?

Good question.
Just curious; seeing that UT sells outs all of its games and has TV rights locked up in the near term, could they even increase revenue above what they already get?
I assume they could, but not sure

 

[Rogah]

Good question.
Just curious; seeing that UT sells outs all of its games and has TV rights locked up in the near term, could they even increase revenue above what they already get?
I assume they could, but not sure

I'm not so sure either. The simple fact of the matter is that while big name programs want some marquee games, they definitely don't want too many marquee games. That's why Texas will be hosting the likes of New Mexico State, Rice and North Texas in the coming years, and Notre Dame will be bringing in such super powers as Temple, Northwestern and Akron.

 

[jterrell]

The Big 12 has the better bowl record, they've lost about the same number of games (52 vs 53) but have won more (54-45) in the BCS era.

Big 12: 54-52
ACC: 45-53

The Big 12 actually plays real bowl games. Teams qualify with 6 wins so overall bowl record means very little. Conf USA and the MAC went 4-1 last year while the ACC went 2-6. Is Conf USA better than the ACC???

In the two largest bowl tie-ins: Peach and Orange. The ACC has a losing record.

The Big 12 routinely keeps 4 or 5 schools in the top 25 and has 3 in the top 10 more often than not. They play bowl games largely versus the SEC, Pac 12 and B1G. Last year the Big 12 sent 8 games to bowls and won 6 games. So 6 of the 10 conference members qualified for an won bowl games. They were probably the best conference in all of football last year. The SEC was more top heavy but not as deep.

Clemson and FSU would fit in the Big 12. Va Tech as well. But the vast majority of schools would be bottom feeders.

The Big 12 has larger recruiting budgets and access to better athletes via recruiting Texas. The only ACC school with similar access is FSU recruiting Florida but they are battling every SEC school for those recruits and all those SEC schools outspend them.

The ACC is where the Big 12 was 24 months ago. Scrapping to remain relevant. The sale of 3rd tier rights for pennies put it in that spot. What the Big 12 had that the ACC doesn't is results in football. As everyone was taking shots at the stability of the Big 12 they were kicking people's butts on the field.

Here is an independent argument dogging the ACC. It is actual performance on the field that is killing them. Hard to get better without more money.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/01/05/acc-struggles-through-bowl-season/