Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[ABQCOWBOY]

If what you say happens, I would actually be surprised to see NC go to the SEC. I actually see them going to the Big 10 if they go anywhere. Academically, that's a much better fit for both parties.

As far as SEC and Big 10 getting first choice, I am not sure about that either. Because of how the Big 12 is setting up on third tier rights, the financial side of that is much more attractive to schools. I would not be surprised to see some schools consider the Big 12 over the Big 10 or the SEC because they don't have exclusives that can be offered. They both pool their money and that's not going to be as attractive to some of the schools who have the ability to create a huge following in their fan base.

 

[DFWJC]

If what you say happens, I would actually be surprised to see NC go to the SEC. I actually see them going to the Big 10 if they go anywhere. Academically, that's a much better fit for both parties.

As far as SEC and Big 10 getting first choice, I am not sure about that either. Because of how the Big 12 is setting up on third tier rights, the financial side of that is much more attractive to schools. I would not be surprised to see some schools consider the Big 12 over the Big 10 or the SEC because they don't have exclusives that can be offered. They both pool their money and that's not going to be as attractive to some of the schools who have the ability to create a huge following in their fan base.

Yes, the SEC has approached UNC more than once about entry and they never want to do it.

Times have changed though and the money is crazy.
But I agree totally that the Big 10 wouold be the better fit for them overall.

And would UNC leave Duke? hose two hoops programs out earn 75% of D-1 football prgrams all by themselves and represent the maybe the best college single sports rivalry going. But Duke is terrible in football.

I think people are forgetting that although college football is a very big part of the equation, there are other very large things to consider as well.

I say the ACC stay intact. There are too many all-around great schools there with high end sports programs and all in the same time zone.

We may know how this goes pretty soon though.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The ACC could stay in tact...as a basketball conference. But a few of the football schools will be leaving

 

[jobberone]

Big 12 gets ND, FSU, Clemson, Louisville, NC State, Miami
SEC gets UNC, Va Tech
B1G gets Ga Tech, UVA, Maryland, Rutgers

Here's a rumour:

Miami will not go to the Big 12. Texas will veto. This is reasonably solid rumor. Miami probably out in cold. Big 12 gets ND, FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, Louisville and NC State. That's iffy rumor.

SEC gets UNC and VA Tech. Rumor but getting repeated a lot.

Big Ten gets VA, MD, two of Pitt, BC, or Rutgers. Iffy rumor.

Not rumor but my thinking is Pac 12 expands but I don't know who. Boise St may not have academics to play there. BYU seems possibility but they are also in play with Big 12. Who else?

 

[jobberone]

If what you say happens, I would actually be surprised to see NC go to the SEC. I actually see them going to the Big 10 if they go anywhere. Academically, that's a much better fit for both parties.

As far as SEC and Big 10 getting first choice, I am not sure about that either. Because of how the Big 12 is setting up on third tier rights, the financial side of that is much more attractive to schools. I would not be surprised to see some schools consider the Big 12 over the Big 10 or the SEC because they don't have exclusives that can be offered. They both pool their money and that's not going to be as attractive to some of the schools who have the ability to create a huge following in their fan base.

NC to the Big Ten is a fairly repeated rumor, too. Many think they reluctantly go to the SEC but seems they don't want to do that and guesses are they don't want to compete with KY in basketball. BCS may force them but there are NC people who want to go to the Big Ten. That's more in line academically with the school as well as some other considerations.

 

[jobberone]

The ACC could stay in tact...as a basketball conference. But a few of the football schools will be leaving

Yep. FSU and Clemson want out and both prefer the SEC. Ain't going to happen though as GA, FL, and SC don't want them and supposedly have a pact to support each other. They don't really bring a whole lot to the SEC though. Great fan support but the SEC has SC and FL wrapped up and those schools mentioned don't want to give their rivals any support.

Clemson and FSU are really desperate to get out now.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think that Carolina and Duke are a package deal no matter where they play. BP could be right in that if UNC and Duke are forced, I could see the ACC still being a solid Basketball Conference but perhaps they play Football somewhere else? I would think that the SEC would not go for that as they want the Basketball which, in turn, improves the brand of Basketball for the SEC but I don't know. A lot of questions still out there.

 

[jobberone]

I think that Carolina and Duke are a package deal no matter where they play. BP could be right in that if UNC and Duke are forced, I could see the ACC still being a solid Basketball Conference but perhaps they play Football somewhere else? I would think that the SEC would not go for that as they want the Basketball which, in turn, improves the brand of Basketball for the SEC but I don't know. A lot of questions still out there.

Not sure the SEC is interested in Duke.

 

[DFWJC]

I'm in Texas and have a Texas focus for the most part. I've been here 20 years, love it here, and am raising my kids here.

But I can't imagine the NCAA not having at least one "power" conference (even though current power is ebbing low) on the East Coast...and no, the SEC is mostly not considered to be on the East Coast. The markets are huge, the time zone is desirable, and the political power is overwhelming.

School presidents have the final say on conference moves and as crazy as it may sound, there are other considerations besides increased football revenue.
BTW, if playoff distribution goes as some say it will, the numbers will be large and the split amound the top 5 confercnes will not be that much different. That added revenue alone will help some programs.

The ACC screwed up not retaining the 3rd tier rights. I would think there is room to renegotiate if losing two of its better football schools is on the table.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

NC to the Big Ten is a fairly repeated rumor, too. Many think they reluctantly go to the SEC but seems they don't want to do that and guesses are they don't want to compete with KY in basketball. BCS may force them but there are NC people who want to go to the Big Ten. That's more in line academically with the school as well as some other considerations.

I don't think they are afraid of Kentucky. I think they are afraid of SEC academics. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure that the ACC makes substantially more off of Federal Grant money, which is based on Academics in no small part, then does the SEC.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not sure the SEC is interested in Duke.

I'm sure they aren't but Duke represents too much money for Carolina and vica versa. Regardless of how things shake out, I think Duke and Carolina are joined at the hip, which is another reason I see both as a better fit for the Big 10. The Big 10 has a lot invested in academics because as much Grant money as the ACC gets, the Big 10 get even more. They make way more money off of Federally Funded Research Grants then they do off of all the sports from all the Big 10 programs combined by a significant margin. That's very big money.

 

[jterrell]

If what you say happens, I would actually be surprised to see NC go to the SEC. I actually see them going to the Big 10 if they go anywhere. Academically, that's a much better fit for both parties.

As far as SEC and Big 10 getting first choice, I am not sure about that either. Because of how the Big 12 is setting up on third tier rights, the financial side of that is much more attractive to schools. I would not be surprised to see some schools consider the Big 12 over the Big 10 or the SEC because they don't have exclusives that can be offered. They both pool their money and that's not going to be as attractive to some of the schools who have the ability to create a huge following in their fan base.

the final teams were just wild guesses on my part as I hope I sufficiently labeled them. i've seen them discussed by not in detail.

all that said UNC makes a mint on its basketball rights and wouldn't want to hand over 3rd tier to B1G without a sweetheart deal.

SEC still makes more money then the B1G easily and will go be well more once the SEC Network is in place.

My guess is SEC gets any two teams it wants. It simply has more money to offer. Also becomes arguably the best basketball conference. Kentucky, Missou, Florida with UNC?? Woah.

The B1G may well get next choices. They should like UNC as you note and Ga Tech and Virgina. They'd probably want to grab 4 schools for a travel pod. But can they resist Rutgers? Surely someone wants that NY area school.

But even if Big12 gets leftover choices for final 4 they'll have sweet selections left over. NCST, Louisville, Miami, Maryland, Pitt et al would be very soft by normal Big 12 football standards and dont add tons of tv money but they are competitive programs with solid academics.

 

[jterrell]

I'm in Texas and have a Texas focus for the most part. I've been here 20 years, love it here, and am raising my kids here.

But I can't imagine the NCAA not having at least one "power" conference (even though current power is ebbing low) on the East Coast...and no, the SEC is mostly not considered to be on the East Coast. The markets are huge, the time zone is desirable, and the political power is overwhelming.

School presidents have the final say on conference moves and as crazy as it may sound, there are other considerations besides increased football revenue.
BTW, if playoff distribution goes as some say it will, the numbers will be large and the split amound the top 5 confercnes will not be that much different. That added revenue alone will help some programs.

The ACC screwed up not retaining the 3rd tier rights. I would think there is room to renegotiate if losing two of its better football schools is on the table.

The East Coast has long had a 'power conference'. It is called Ivy League.
East coast Blue Bloods think football is for neanderthals and idiots.

They haven't had a power athletic conference in forever. The ACC isn't all that East Coast. Again not by true mover an shaker status. Let's be honest. There's NYC and then there is a bunch of Atlantic Coast afterthought areas. Those places have zero power. They aren't football hotbeds and don't place football that high on the totem pole.

The Big East would be alive and well if the East Coast had a powerful presence. They had ND in as associate member and still fell apart. Their taking third tier schools like SMU and Boise St from across the land.

The best East Coast football program is West Virginia. And we saw where they landed.

TAPPS is clearly playing for the ACC as a football conference.
Do soem schools want to hold it together as a basketball and academic elite? Not sure. Does UNC and Duke even need conference affiliation? Could they join the Ivy League? Lotsa possibilities. All at least as realistic as the ACC holding onto FSU and Clemson.

 

[jterrell]

I'm sure they aren't but Duke represents too much money for Carolina and vica versa. Regardless of how things shake out, I think Duke and Carolina are joined at the hip, which is another reason I see both as a better fit for the Big 10. The Big 10 has a lot invested in academics because as much Grant money as the ACC gets, the Big 10 get even more. They make way more money off of Federally Funded Research Grants then they do off of all the sports from all the Big 10 programs combined by a significant margin. That's very big money.

In one sport.
They can play each other easily yearly in basketball no matter their conferences.

Duke is more Ivy League like in every other aspect of their university.

 

[DFWJC]

The East Coast has long had a 'power conference'. It is called Ivy League.
East coast Blue Bloods think football is for neanderthals and idiots.

They haven't had a power athletic conference in forever. The ACC isn't all that East Coast. Again not by true mover an shaker status. Let's be honest. There's NYC and then there is a bunch of Atlantic Coast afterthought areas. Those places have zero power. They aren't football hotbeds and don't place football that high on the totem pole.

The Big East would be alive and well if the East Coast had a powerful presence. They had ND in as associate member and still fell apart. Their taking third tier schools like SMU and Boise St from across the land.

The best East Coast football program is West Virginia. And we saw where they landed.

TAPPS is clearly playing for the ACC as a football conference.
Do some schools want to hold it together as a basketball and academic elite? Not sure. Does UNC and Duke even need conference affiliation? Could they join the Ivy League? Lotsa possibilities. All at least as realistic as the ACC holding onto FSU and Clemson.

Maybe I should have said Atlantic seaboard to dilute your pompus attitude? NYC and the rest is nothing? You don't consider Maryland, Mass, NC, Florida, Virginia to be on the East coast?

Ivy League?
You're losing your mind.

Like I said, maybe you're right about FSU and Clem. You've back yourself in such a 90-100% sure corner (vs everyone else saying maybe) this should be interesting.

Here's some more trivia....

Q: How much will the new playoff format be worth and how much will each conference receive?

A: The current BCS model is worth about $180 million annually and estimates for the new playoff model will be at least double that -- $360 million annually. The commissioners still have to determine how that money is divided up, but this much we know: the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC will get the biggest shares. CBSSports.com reported Monday that the revenue split will be based on the league's past performances, specifically Top 25 finishes in the final BCS rankings since 1998, the first year of the BCS. The past participation model is one way to justify the Big Five conferences receiving the majority of the money. Other elements under consideration include market share value. Under the current system, each of the power conferences received a minimum of $22.3 million. In the new model, I wouldn't be surprised if the five power leagues receive at least $50 million annually. The other leagues -- Big East, Mountain West, Conference USA, Mid-American and Sun Belt -- will get much smaller shares than the Big Five, but more than the $2.64 million they each receive now. The Big East, which received $22.3 million in the current system, is no longer considered an elite conference and will not get the same as the Big Five leagues in the future format. However, they could get an amount much less than the Big Five, but more than the remaining non-power conferences. This is still to be determined. Also, each conference will receive additional revenue for each team it qualifies in the national semifinals.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Lots of good points here but I think at the end of the day, UNC will not make any move without Duke and Duke will not make any move without UNC. They just have way too much history but more importantly, they have way too much money on the table. That is only my opinion but I would bet on that one.

 

[DFWJC]

In one sport.
They can play each other easily yearly in basketball no matter their conferences.

Duke is more Ivy League like in every other aspect of their university.

Duke does suck in football for sure. The last time they were much of anything was when Spurrier was there.

But they always rank very high in the all-sports ratings.

The latest rankings (almost final rankings) have Duke ahead of all Big 12 schools except Texas.

 

[jobberone]

I don't think they are afraid of Kentucky. I think they are afraid of SEC academics. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure that the ACC makes substantially more off of Federal Grant money, which is based on Academics in no small part, then does the SEC.

Afraid is not the right word but they aren't looking forward to losing the ACC recruiting draw and then having to compete with Kentucky. And you're right the academics is a big deal.

I'm sure they aren't but Duke represents too much money for Carolina and vica versa. Regardless of how things shake out, I think Duke and Carolina are joined at the hip, which is another reason I see both as a better fit for the Big 10. The Big 10 has a lot invested in academics because as much Grant money as the ACC gets, the Big 10 get even more. They make way more money off of Federally Funded Research Grants then they do off of all the sports from all the Big 10 programs combined by a significant margin. That's very big money.

I discussed this with someone the other night. NC and Duke are more 'elitist' and are more academically inclined. They both fit more in the Big Ten than the SEC.

I just see the SEC getting them but I have nothing but rumor right now that is actually rumor of rumor of rumor.

 

[DFWJC]

It's Saturday night, June 23rd.

There's been a lot of talk about Florida State joining the Big 12 this summer, and some here have said it is almost a certainty.

I have maintained that this is not so and that the overall benefits of them being in the ACC win out. Great all-around athletic/academics, eastern time zone, massive travel expenses and less visitor attendance, and the near certainty that FSU (and maybe Miami) will rise again in national prominence regardless of conference affilation are just a few reasons why I say they prefer the ACC over the Big 12.

I could be wrong!

So
I'm willing to make a friendly wager here to anyone willing to pull the trigger. I say they (FSU) don't agree leave the ACC for the Big 12 this summer....not for any season coming up (because probably the earliest they could join would be 2013 or 2014).
You can email me or pm me anytime with an offer.
But it has to be before midnight CST on June 25th.

jterrell, you seem like a very good option with your ACC bashing. So all in good fun, step up to the plate my Cowboy-fan brother!
Anyone else is welcome to play.

 

[jterrell]

Maybe I should have said Atlantic seaboard to dilute your pompus attitude? NYC and the rest is nothing? You don't consider Maryland, Mass, NC, Florida, Virginia to be on the East coast?

Ivy League?
You're losing your mind.

Like I said, maybe you're right about FSU and Clem. You've back yourself in such a 90-100% sure corner (vs everyone else saying maybe) this should be interesting.

Here's some more trivia....

Q: How much will the new playoff format be worth and how much will each conference receive?

A: The current BCS model is worth about $180 million annually and estimates for the new playoff model will be at least double that -- $360 million annually. The commissioners still have to determine how that money is divided up, but this much we know: the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC will get the biggest shares. CBSSports.com reported Monday that the revenue split will be based on the league's past performances, specifically Top 25 finishes in the final BCS rankings since 1998, the first year of the BCS. The past participation model is one way to justify the Big Five conferences receiving the majority of the money. Other elements under consideration include market share value. Under the current system, each of the power conferences received a minimum of $22.3 million. In the new model, I wouldn't be surprised if the five power leagues receive at least $50 million annually. The other leagues -- Big East, Mountain West, Conference USA, Mid-American and Sun Belt -- will get much smaller shares than the Big Five, but more than the $2.64 million they each receive now. The Big East, which received $22.3 million in the current system, is no longer considered an elite conference and will not get the same as the Big Five leagues in the future format. However, they could get an amount much less than the Big Five, but more than the remaining non-power conferences. This is still to be determined. Also, each conference will receive additional revenue for each team it qualifies in the national semifinals.

Pompous attitude? For bringing facts?

You said East Coast conference. Well the biggest and strongest conference is the SEC. So you can remove that entire area southern area as it is well-represented.

You have atlantic seaboard which again is an entirely different area than the "East Coast". NY, NJ, Mass. That little area has the tv sets to be desired.

Maryland and Virginia are somewhat desired. DC-Area is very coveted. End of the day too there is no real need for a major conference in that area. Pitt, WVA, Syra all just changed conferences. They do not nee dot be together or in a conference anchored in the Northeast. College football isn't a big player in that part of the world.

Those teams can fit into Big 10, Big 12, SEC easily.

The Dukies have long wanted to go Ivy League.

As to your article you left out some key points.
In the proposal the money will be based on how the current membership fared since BCS inception. That means the ACC is barely hanging on to major conference status and will get markedly smaller shares than the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 12. And those shares get really small if that factor is equated minus FSU/Clemson.

Yes, each major conference will make more money. We already knew any playoff system would be a financial windfall. What we didn't know was that the rich are only going to keep getting richer. FSU's issue is the insane difference they have in revenue versus Florida. This proposal doesn't help them there AT ALL. It doesn't improve their home schedule, doesn't give them recruiting equality (much less advantages) versus the SEC schools.

UT has courted ND hardcore for over a year now. The ACC can in fact try to survive by simply taking everything in the UT pitch and offering it up. If they get ND in for Olympic sports and 5 or more ACC games a year they'll be a solid 5th. If not they are just the Big East South. Basketball doesn't hold a conference together. Syracuse and UConn make their fortunes off of basketball and just split up.