Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[Rogah]

The difference is the massive private endowments of the Ivy League.
Harvard has a larger private endowment than Duke has in total research funds.

Harvard is far and away the wealthiest university in the nation. They even leave their conference-mates in the dust. To compare Duke to Harvard is just not a fair comparison.

All 8 Ivies have larger private endowments than Duke.

You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts. Fact is that if you took the 8 Ivy's and added Duke, Duke's endowment would rank 6th of those 9. Now what was that you were saying about me not being able to spell?

To act like joining the Ivy League would be a gateway to tremendous riches which Duke does not currently enjoy is ridiculous. It's not like they'd become another Harvard. They'd have to complete destory their athletic department as it currently exists and still wouldn't be anything but a Dartmouth, Cornell or Brown. (Not that there's anything wrong with any of those institutions, I'm just saying that they're no wealthier than Duke already is)

EDIT: I posted this before reading DFWJC's post, where he says many of the same things, but he beat me by a half hour. I swear I posted this before reading his, and I apologize for looking like I plagiarized.

 

[StylisticS]

You are mistaken. Duke has a larger endowment than several Ivies. Harvard, Yale and Princeton are on another plane, but they are who they are.

Duke also routinely ranks near the middle of the Ivy pack in overall college rankings, maybe lower 1/3.

And no, Ivies do not think of Duke that way: maybe Tulane or SMU do not get respect, but Duke is a top 10 school.
This year they rank ahead of Dartmouth, Brown and Cornell.

Did you just mention Duke and UT in the same sentence?

UT is excellent but they never rate top 15. Never.
Maybe in a specific department (for sure Accounting) but not in the overall rankings. In fact they were 45th this year.

This year
Duke is 10th
and
UNC, UVa, Wake Forest, rank far (about 15-20 slots) ahead of UT. And Texas is strong.
In fact, amound US News 2012 ranking of National Universities,
SEVEN ACC schools rank ahead of the top Big 12 school, UT

Not that it will score any extra TDs this fall.

I think I read somewhere that Texas large enrollment is what hurt UT's ranking with US News. Because if you go to each of the departments in the same US News, UT is right there with UVA, UNC, and Wake Forest.

 

[DFWJC]

I think I read somewhere that Texas large enrollment is what hurt UT's ranking with US News. Because if you go to each of the departments in the same US News, UT is right there with UVA, UNC, and Wake Forest.

Yeah, UT is outstanding...especially for having such a huge enrollment.
I'm not sure they'd be there with UVa (top 3 public university) but it's not worth the argument, as I don't wish to deminish their success.
.
BTW, UNC football has not recovered from losing Mack Brown. Give him all the grief you want (plenty do for some reason), but UT football has rebounded big time with him at the helm....and the overall revenue is second to none. Two BCS title games and a hair form a couple of more is pretty good, unless you've gotten spoiled and have taken it forgranted.

 

[Rogah]

BTW, UNC football has not recovered from losing Mack Brown. Give him all the grief you want (plenty do for some reason), but UT football has rebounded big time with him at the helm....

Mack Brown is still hated to this day in Chapel Hill. However I, as someone with no loyalty to UNC, have no problem whatsoever with what he did. He was a great football coach - at a basketball school. He could only take that program so high. They cracked the top 10 but never really contended for national championships.

I don't blame him one bit for using UNC as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. He did things the right way and deserves the success he has had.

 

[jterrell]

You are mistaken. Duke has a larger endowment than several Ivies. Harvard, Yale and Princeton are on another plane, but they are who they are.

Duke also routinely ranks near the middle of the Ivy pack in overall college rankings, maybe lower 1/3.

And no, Ivies do not think of Duke that way: maybe Tulane or SMU do not get respect, but Duke is a top 10 school.
This year they rank ahead of Dartmouth, Brown and Cornell.

Did you just mention Duke and UT in the same sentence?

UT is excellent but they never rate top 15. Never.
Maybe in a specific department (for sure Accounting) but not in the overall rankings. In fact they were 45th this year.

This year
Duke is 10th
and
UNC, UVa, Wake Forest, rank far (about 15-20 slots) ahead of UT. And Texas is strong.
In fact, amound US News 2012 ranking of National Universities,
SEVEN ACC schools rank ahead of the top Big 12 school, UT

Not that it will score any extra TDs this fall.

You are using a one year sample of the most generic ranking available with US News. Who exactly chooses schools without regard to major?

The national council for research shows far more real data.
I assure you Duke and UT rank similarly across the board in disciplines that are measured.

http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41.html

Bottom line again is Duke is a phenomenal school but it is not at all some John Hopkins or Cal Tech or MIT or Harvard or Yale or Princeton.

And yes, I assure you the North Eastern Blue Bloods view Dukies as big southern dummies. I have two Ivy League, NYC born and bred brother in laws. 1 Doctor, 1 Architect. Duke is a party school in their eyes where the smart rednecks go.

You were correct about endowments. My number for Duke was from 2005. I didn't realize they fluctuated so highly. All that said UT is at 17b and Duke 6b.

UT ranks 3rd in the nation in endowment and makes 120m off of sports as well.

 

[DFWJC]

UT ranks 3rd in the nation in endowment and makes 120m off of sports as well.

Yeah, I'm aware that both UT and TAMU have very large endowments.
It's amazing, really.

 

[jterrell]

Yeah, I'm aware that both UT and TAMU have very large endowments.
It's amazing, really.

It is old oil money. Texas is probably the richest state in the union for amassed wealth.
Texas Tech is trying to get part of that cash but hasn't ever been able to. Only UT and TAMU thus far.

New techniques and more oil in West Texas should cause more money to flow and Tech has one of the leading programs in the country for oilfield exploration.

 

[jterrell]

getting us back on topic.

what i 'think' i know after the announcement yesterday.

1. There are 5 conferences getting major cuts of the new playoff system. ACC is a distant 5th but at least they are 5th.

2. The Big 12 is iffy on FSU and really iffy on Clemson because the TV contracts won't rise much. In fact because other money is further divided it could mean less money per school to expand IN 2013.

3. BUT in 2014 the Big 12 needs a Champ Game for that very large tv payout. So Big 12 seems willing to be patient and hope for ND THIS YEAR.

4. Still UT and OU prefer 9 league games and a champ. Let other conferences knock themselves out of the 4 team playoff. BUT the Big 12 Champ would ALWAYS get in.

5. Why would FSU/Clemson leave now? Money is incoming if they stay. Strength of Schedule and more money! FSU could go 10-1 in the ACC and NOT get an invite to the playoffs. A 1 loss Missou team that was able to miss Bama that season would still have a much higher SOS factor. SOS is the new AQ status and we all know AQ status was the big mover and shaker under the BCS.

6. The Big 12 is being greedy. If they had simply moved to grab FSU and Clemson without the stupid ND caveats they'd be in the catbirds seat to get them. BUT they prefer to get ND plus whoever ND brings. Infuriating and a big gamble. ND could just as easily go ACC end of the day....

7. ND does not currently have enough SOS to get an invite to the playoffs with 1 loss. For a team that travels like they do going undefeated would be very tough. And a 1 loss ND is well behind a 1 loss SEC team and probably behind 1 loss Big 12/Pac 12/B1G. So I think they will do an agreement for football scheduling and Olympic sports. I can almost see why the Big 12 is holding out for the golden goose. ALMOST.

 

[DFWJC]

getting us back on topic.

what i 'think' i know after the announcement yesterday.

1. There are 5 conferences getting major cuts of the new playoff system. ACC is a distant 5th but at least they are 5th.

2. The Big 12 is iffy on FSU and really iffy on Clemson because the TV contracts won't rise much. In fact because other money is further divided it could mean less money per school to expand IN 2013.

3. BUT in 2014 the Big 12 needs a Champ Game for that very large tv payout. So Big 12 seems willing to be patient and hope for ND THIS YEAR.

4. Still UT and OU prefer 9 league games and a champ. Let other conferences knock themselves out of the 4 team playoff. BUT the Big 12 Champ would ALWAYS get in.

5. Why would FSU/Clemson leave now? Money is incoming if they stay. Strength of Schedule and more money! FSU could go 10-1 in the ACC and NOT get an invite to the playoffs. A 1 loss Missou team that was able to miss Bama that season would still have a much higher SOS factor. SOS is the new AQ status and we all know AQ status was the big mover and shaker under the BCS.

6. The Big 12 is being greedy. If they had simply moved to grab FSU and Clemson without the stupid ND caveats they'd be in the catbirds seat to get them. BUT they prefer to get ND plus whoever ND brings. Infuriating and a big gamble. ND could just as easily go ACC end of the day....

7. ND does not currently have enough SOS to get an invite to the playoffs with 1 loss. For a team that travels like they do going undefeated would be very tough. And a 1 loss ND is well behind a 1 loss SEC team and probably behind 1 loss Big 12/Pac 12/B1G. So I think they will do an agreement for football scheduling and Olympic sports. I can almost see why the Big 12 is holding out for the golden goose. ALMOST.

Get ready to fly that ACC avatar. :laugh2:

 

[jterrell]

Get ready to fly that ACC avatar. :laugh2:

this one could certainly go either way.

in the last few hours people are back to saying ou and ut are softening on their anti-expansion stance. --with severe push from wva

a lot will ride on ND.
if ND extends with NBC soon things will move quickly.
if they hang around for a couple months negotiating, i'll be flying an ACC avi.

the ND AD was on Arute's show earlier today and kept describing the Big East as "them" and "they". typical ND superiority or signs of a planned move?
who knows at this point.

 

[DFWJC]

The ACC reached a 12 year agreement today with the Orange Bowl--locking in the ACC champ vs the best available at large team (instead of the Big East).
The bowl plans to enter the Final Four rotation along with the Champions and Rose Bowl, and others. 5 major conferences now have bowl ties that would in the rotation.

The ACC will market and sell the Orange Bowl TV rights and keep at least 50% of the revenue. Whatever network win the bidding will also get the Bowl when it is a semifinal game.

This further helps the ACC and further locks in FSU and Miami. imo

 

[MC KAos]

i think this pretty much cements the ACC to stay as is. at this point, the only way FSU or clemson leave is if they have the frameworks for their own network and would be making a lot more money than they would staying in the ACC.

 

[jterrell]

The ACC reached a 12 year agreement today with the Orange Bowl--locking in the ACC champ vs the best available at large team (instead of the Big East).
The bowl plans to enter the Final Four rotation along with the Champions and Rose Bowl, and others. 5 major conferences now have bowl ties that would in the rotation.

The ACC will market and sell the Orange Bowl TV rights and keep at least 50% of the revenue. Whatever network win the bidding will also get the Bowl when it is a semifinal game.

This further helps the ACC and further locks in FSU and Miami. imo

It sets up the ACC as the distant 5th power conference. Why? Orange Bowl will STILL earn less money than Champ and Rose Bowl by a crap load. EXCEPT those 4 power conferences ALREADY have better tv deals and already have better bowl tie-ins. So they make more money already and even compile more money in bowl payouts. The playoff system is eerily similar to the BCS. And that is a huge problem for the ACC because in the last decade they would have made the playoff games so terribly few times.

Sure, ACC will shop Orange Bowl. Who is gonna pay big money for them?

End of the day it helps ACC but FSU would still make markedly more money in the Big 12 or SEC were they to get an invite.

CFB reporters had a conf call today. Almost without fail they all expected further expansion by 2014. Big 12 was leading candidate for expansion with Pac 12 least likely.

Next domino to fall is ND contract with NBC.

ACC is currently setup like the Big East 5 years ago. A slow whittling away financially.

 

[DFWJC]

It sets up the ACC as the distant 5th power conference. Why? Orange Bowl will STILL earn less money than Champ and Rose Bowl by a crap load. EXCEPT those 4 power conferences ALREADY have better tv deals and already have better bowl tie-ins. So they make more money already and even compile more money in bowl payouts. The playoff system is eerily similar to the BCS. And that is a huge problem for the ACC because in the last decade they would have made the playoff games so terribly few times.

Sure, ACC will shop Orange Bowl. Who is gonna pay big money for them?

End of the day it helps ACC but FSU would still make markedly more money in the Big 12 or SEC were they to get an invite.

CFB reporters had a conf call today. Almost without fail they all expected further expansion by 2014. Big 12 was leading candidate for expansion with Pac 12 least likely.

Next domino to fall is ND contract with NBC.

ACC is currently setup like the Big East 5 years ago. A slow whittling away financially.

According to you. The ACC is so much further ahead than CUSA 2.0, uh, I man the Big East.

Keep talking bro.
But odds are that you lost our bet and will be flying the ACC banner this football season.

 

[DFWJC]

It's Saturday night, June 23rd.

There's been a lot of talk about Florida State joining the Big 12 this summer, and some here have said it is almost a certainty.

I have maintained that this is not so and that the overall benefits of them being in the ACC win out. Great all-around athletic/academics, eastern time zone, massive travel expenses and less visitor attendance, and the near certainty that FSU (and maybe Miami) will rise again in national prominence regardless of conference affilation are just a few reasons why I say they prefer the ACC over the Big 12.

I could be wrong!

So
I'm willing to make a friendly wager here to anyone willing to pull the trigger. I say they (FSU) don't agree leave the ACC for the Big 12 this summer....not for any season coming up (because probably the earliest they could join would be 2013 or 2014).
You can email me or pm me anytime with an offer.
But it has to be before midnight CST on June 25th.

jterrell, you seem like a very good option with your ACC bashing. So all in good fun, step up to the plate my Cowboy-fan brother!
Anyone else is welcome to play.

Here is a reminder of the bet that you accepted.

Sometime this summer, before the seaosn starts obviously, FSU has to agree to leave the ACC for the Big 12.
Clock is ticking.

Hey, they could meet again next summer and revisit the topic, but that is not the bet.

 

[jobberone]

Doesn't look like much is going to happen. But I stopped giving any credence to any of the rumors of rumors of rumors awhile back.

 

[jterrell]

Here is a reminder of the bet that you accepted.

Sometime this summer, before the seaosn starts obviously, FSU has to agree to leave the ACC for the Big 12.
Clock is ticking.

Hey, they could meet again next summer and revisit the topic, but that is not the bet.

I haven't forgotten the bet.
This stuff happens quickly when it happens so we'll see.

ACC is definitely ahead of all other conferences besides the Big 4. Problem is they are easily the softest of the major conferences. And the brokest. FSU is losing massive amounts of money and Maryland just cancelled 7 sports programs. Quickest fix for either is admission to one of the big 4 conferences.

I don't think many people believe things will stand pat til 2014. But it may well make it another year as is. If so I'll gladly pay up on the bet. If I lose and wear it for a year and then it disbands I may wear it a while longer just for nostalgia's sake.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

ESPN: Notre Dame, ACC talk Orange Bowl


SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Notre Dame says it has had talks with the Atlantic Coast Conference about the Orange Bowl.

More on Notre Dame football

Notre Dame Everything Notre Dame football, from recruiting to news to game coverage, is available from ESPN.com's Matt Fortuna in his Notre Dame football blog.
• More: ESPN Chicago's college blog

The ACC signed a 12-year deal with the Orange Bowl last week that starts in 2014, when the postseason format changes to a four-team playoff.

The deal gives ACC members access to Orange Bowl in years the game does not host a national semifinal.


http://espn.go.com/college-football...otre-dame-fighting-irish-acc-talk-orange-bowl

 

[MC KAos]

ESPN: Notre Dame, ACC talk Orange Bowl


SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Notre Dame says it has had talks with the Atlantic Coast Conference about the Orange Bowl.

More on Notre Dame football

Notre Dame Everything Notre Dame football, from recruiting to news to game coverage, is available from ESPN.com's Matt Fortuna in his Notre Dame football blog.
• More: ESPN Chicago's college blog

The ACC signed a 12-year deal with the Orange Bowl last week that starts in 2014, when the postseason format changes to a four-team playoff.

The deal gives ACC members access to Orange Bowl in years the game does not host a national semifinal.


http://espn.go.com/college-football...otre-dame-fighting-irish-acc-talk-orange-bowl

well, the ACC went from being on the verge of being raided to closing the gap on the top 4 leagues! whomever is running that league should get a big pat on the back! and show beebee how to run a league!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

well, the ACC went from being on the verge of being raided to closing the gap on the top 4 leagues! whomever is running that league should get a big pat on the back! and show beebee how to run a league!

That would be ESPN. There is a reason, IMO, the gap is closing. The NCAA and ESPN need 5 leagues.