Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

ABQCOWBOY

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DFWJC;4561160 said:
Hey ABQ.
The discussion is about FSU--who joined the ACC in 1991.
You may want to go back and check some of those facts. Not trying to be a weenie here, but both of FSUs National titles came while they were in the ACC and they have finished in the top 5 NINE times while they were in the ACC. That's a great track record.
Like I said, I think that the demise in the last decade had much to do with the Bowden losing his edge. But overall, they have had enormous success on a national level while they were in the ACC.

Virigina Tech finished the regullar season 3rd in the BCS in 2007. They have their current longest strwak of top 25 finishes going in their school history.

No, actually, I said that both schools have gone down since the induction of Miami in 2004. Obviously, if we wanted to go back further, we could be talking about the SWC here but really, that doesn't have a whole lot of barring on the current landscape of College Football.

Since that time, only VaTech has had success in the ACC, between these three schools and really, VaTech is the only school in the entire ACC that has consistently posted good seasons year after year. Incidentally, there are also rumors starting up about VaTech and the Big 12.
 

rkell87

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http://www.BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190769&page=66

From Baylor 24/7 on Big XII additions:

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About three weeks ago, one of my sources on conference realignment called. I thought he was just calling to catch up and say "hello."

I was wrong.

The BCS meetings regarding a college football playoff at the FBS level were approaching, and he told me to watch carefully what came out of those meetings.

Soon after the ACC schools received their new ESPN contract - which averaged $17 million per school, per year over 15 years - the news leaked of a Big 12 contract for the top two tiers in the range of $20 million apiece. That meant two tiers of the Big 12 was valued at $3 million more than all three tiers of ACC programming.

At that time, at least 10 universities started a market research study on the value of their tier three rights, which remain in possession by Big 12 schools after equally distributing the top two tiers.

Louisville, Pitt, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and BYU all received their studies and went to media outlets to gauge the monetary value.

Notre Dame would receive the largest amount, followed by Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech. The others were all told that their rights were valued in the $4 million range.

Last Thursday, intermediaries from several schools reached out to decision makers to start conversations about possibly moving to the Big 12.

On Saturday, the Chairman of Florida State's Board of Trustees blasted the ACC contract - especially in terms of the institutions where football was more of a focus than basetball.

Another detail that came to light was that the new ACC contract was backloaded - with members not receiving the $17 million until 2021. The Big 12 deal had a greater rate of acceleration, with schools receiving the $20 million by 2015 - when the rumored ESPN contract would go into effect.

As of today, the ESPN Big 12 contract has not been signed. Escalator clauses in the contract for getting back to 12 teams will raise the contract northward of $25 million per team. The media contracts for the Big 12 will reopen for negotiation if the league expands past 12 teams.

At this time, the Big 12 powers are happy with the thought of 12 teams and a new conference championship game. However, a few of the league's major players would like the contract to reopen for possibly more money by going to 14 teams.

With 14 teams, expected payouts would be approximately $28 million per school, with another $2 million or so per team coming from a conference championship game. And remember, the schools also have their tier 3 rights - unlike the ACC.

Florida State and Clemson coaches have been told a possible move to the Big 12 was under way, and to be ready for this on the road recruiting.

Secondly, our sources also state a Big 12 Tier 3 Network for the schools without the pull of a Texas or OU could form and would likely mean an additional $4 million to $6 million for those institutions. This would ensure constant programming for either Fox Sports or ESPN to show in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and other conference markets. Adding two ACC schools would further the reach of this network.

Originally Texas and OU were wanting to remain at 10 schools in the conference, but they began to consider expansion when the tier 3 studies were done by the other schools. The ability of the Big 12 to attract national brands such as Florida State and Clemson raised the bar a bit for a conference long-since stabilized by a 13-year grant of rights by its members.

The next obstacle is finding the right teams to add - and how many. There are several suitors for the additional two or four seats. The issue remains which schools could increase the current contract to the maximum projected $28 million.

Our sources have told us decisions could be made by May 30, when the Big 12 has its annual membership meeting.

All situations can change. However, according to people we trust, if Clemson and Florida State inform the ACC of their decision to leave - and the schools complete the application process for Big 12 membership - then discussions could take place at the May meeting.

It is unclear if the power brokers in the conference would rubber-stamp the applications, or if a school like Texas or Oklahoma would balk at FSU and Clemson being the first two added to the conference ranks.
 

DFWJC

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There's some great stuff in this thread. Wild really.

One assumption some of the Big 12 expansion folks are making is that a new TV contract would instantly be negotiated if new members came aboard...and not that the already signed conference contract would remain in place.
The networks have zero obligation to tear up the contract in place.
So, if you add 2 members the take drops from 20 to 16.6 per year. Add more and the dilution is greater.

Of course that 3rd tier carrot would still be there. And you would assume that sometime during the 10 year contract time frame (maybe after 7?) new negotiation may begin.
 

YosemiteSam

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$17M in 2020 or $20+M in 2015 and $28M by 2020? At May 30th, the Big12 could be welcoming FSU and Clemson.
 

DFWJC

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For a supposedly brainiac athletic conference, it sure looks like the ACC got their hats handed to the when negotiating TV rights.
 

MC KAos

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DFWJC;4562466 said:
For a supposedly brainiac athletic conference, it sure looks like the ACC got their hats handed to the when negotiating TV rights.

well, sponsors dont care how good a school is academically, coca cola and budweiser will pay more money for ads in a TCU vs UT or OU vs WVU game than their ACC counterparts. im guessing thats ultimately where the money is coming from to begin with
 

rkell87

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DFWJC;4562446 said:
There's some great stuff in this thread. Wild really.

One assumption some of the Big 12 expansion folks are making is that a new TV contract would instantly be negotiated if new members came aboard...and not that the already signed conference contract would remain in place.
The networks have zero obligation to tear up the contract in place.
So, if you add 2 members the take drops from 20 to 16.6 per year. Add more and the dilution is greater.

Of course that 3rd tier carrot would still be there. And you would assume that sometime during the 10 year contract time frame (maybe after 7?) new negotiation may begin.

you might have missed this

Escalator clauses in the contract for getting back to 12 teams will raise the contract northward of $25 million per team. The media contracts for the Big 12 will reopen for negotiation if the league expands past 12 teams.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I suspect that there is probably some sort of clause in the contract that allows for renegotiation if additional members join the conference. It would almost have to be that way because of ND. If/when ND joins a conference, the entire TV deal will change so you have to have something there to account for that possibility.

I could see FSU, VaTech, Miami and either ND or BYU joining. I suspect that Clemson has hurt themselves with their latest comments but more then that, those are programs that could run a third tier and make money. They all have enough following. Maryland is interesting but I just don't see that every happening. Maryland will never leave the ACC IMO.
 

trickblue

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DeLoss Dodds said no way no how to FSU...

I would like to see it happen, but if Dodds isn't on board, it's not gonna go through...
 

StylisticS

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trickblue;4562790 said:
DeLoss Dodds said no way no how to FSU...

I would like to see it happen, but if Dodds isn't on board, it's not gonna go through...
Eh, I'm not taking that comment seriously at all.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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trickblue;4562790 said:
DeLoss Dodds said no way no how to FSU...

I would like to see it happen, but if Dodds isn't on board, it's not gonna go through...

He also said if the others wanted it he would go with the majority.
 

trickblue

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BrAinPaiNt;4562933 said:
He also said if the others wanted it he would go with the majority.

They didn't report that yesterday, although he is probably just saying that to sound cooperative...
 

ABQCOWBOY

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trickblue;4562790 said:
DeLoss Dodds said no way no how to FSU...

I would like to see it happen, but if Dodds isn't on board, it's not gonna go through...


Dodds wants to be the Big 10. He wants to include only schools that have exceptional academics. The problem with that is that it's very difficult to find schools who have both and are not associated with a major conference already. The lines are being drawn now. In another year, conferences might be set with the 4 major Power Conferences set up. If the Big 12 doesn't align now, they could find themselves surpassed by other conference affiliations. To me, this is more about setting up TV market and program affiliation in power conferences. That has to be done now and not later. Unless the Big 12 has four teams that have power programs and academics already in line, I don't think they can afford to turn away power programs like FSU who could start their own third tier as well as compete for a National Championship.

The thing about the third tier and how it relates to Texas is that right now and I believe until the Big 12 gets their schools up and running on their own network deals, Texas has to share it's third tier revenue amongst all the members of the Big 12. Once teams get their own situations squared away in this regard, Texas gets to keep it's third tier earnings. That's a huge deal for Texas as their revenues from LHN are huge.
 

DFWJC

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Just a general comment.

I think forming four mega conferences only for the reason to appease a 4 team playoff format is a bad assumption and a terrible, terrible reason to send a dozen schools scrambling. For starters, I'd be shocked if this is not at 8 teams fairly soon. Four teams is not far from being as bad as what we have now.

That doesn't mean four mega league thing won't happen though. I'm not shooting any messangers here :)

Anyway, if they have four mega leagues (16-20 teams each), the assumption has always been that the core conferences would be the Big 10, Pac 12, Big 12, ACC. Those leagues could pirate from each other, I suppose, but there are also plenty of other schools from the Big East, MWC, etc available. I think Louisville is first in line for the Big 12 if any school is.

At this point, college football has gotten so far off track that should just pay the players and become the NFL minor leagues. The tail is totally wagging the dog at this point.
 

jterrell

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various notes.

deloss is likely the one leaking the stories so take his public comments with a huge grain of salt.

everyone knows who really runs orangebloods.com which has the stories early if not first and support adding fsu.

greg swain out of oklahoma (great twiiter follow) has been saying this for months btw. he has contacts inside the schools and has been well ahead of the curve.

fsu to big 12 is very possible... big 12 may well take whatever partner they want ... clemson or miami.

the big 12 was always a major player that only knuckleheads saw as weak.
no sooner than they negotiated the tv deal they were making as much money as anyone.

the NEW big 12 deal isn't yet signed. if they add teams shortly it wont ever be signed. it will be reconstructed instead with a title game and will approach 25m per team.

dallas, san antonio and austin aren't just huge tv markets they are enormously growing tv markets. tv execs realize this.

they are also as football hungry as any major tv markets anywhere.
 

jterrell

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DFWJC;4563112 said:
Just a general comment.

I think forming four mega conferences only for the reason to appease a 4 team playoff format is a bad assumption and a terrible, terrible reason to send a dozen schools scrambling. For starters, I'd be shocked if this is not at 8 teams fairly soon. Four teams is not far from being as bad as what we have now.

That doesn't mean four mega league thing won't happen though. I'm not shooting any messangers here :)

It's just, imo, a really short-term view.
At this point, college football has gotten so far off track that should just pay the players and become the NFL minor leagues. The tail is totally wagging the dog at this point.

the 4 mega conferences is to appease espn/fox.

less conferences, more control over what games air and when.

we'll get to 8 team playoff shortly with top 2 teams from each conference.

a 4 team playoff with top dog form each conference is light years better than what we have this year.

stan, lsu, okst, wis
last year would have been a lot more entertaining for the vast majority of the country than an lsu/bama rematch.
 

DFWJC

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jterrell;4563118 said:
dallas, san antonio and austin aren't just huge tv markets they are enormously growing tv markets. tv execs realize this.

they are also as football hungry as any major tv markets anywhere.
that's for sure.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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DFWJC;4563112 said:
Just a general comment.

I think forming four mega conferences only for the reason to appease a 4 team playoff format is a bad assumption and a terrible, terrible reason to send a dozen schools scrambling. For starters, I'd be shocked if this is not at 8 teams fairly soon. Four teams is not far from being as bad as what we have now.

That doesn't mean four mega league thing won't happen though. I'm not shooting any messangers here :)

Anyway, if they have four mega leagues (16-20 teams each), the assumption has always been that the core conferences would be the Big 10, Pac 12, Big 12, ACC. Those leagues could pirate from each other, I suppose, but there are also plenty of other schools from the Big East, MWC, etc available. I think Louisville is first in line for the Big 12 if any school is.

At this point, college football has gotten so far off track that should just pay the players and become the NFL minor leagues. The tail is totally wagging the dog at this point.

I would say that the assumption has always been PAC12, Big 10, SEC and another conference but I don't know. Maybe nobody does?

As for Louisville, I have heard rumors that the Big 12 has cooled considerably. Again, who really knows?
 

DFWJC

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True. I had omitted the obvious--SEC.

The best and most inclusive solution would be to have at least 6 large conferences; 8 teams in a playoff with 2 at large. Otherwsie, we regress back to the exclusionary setup that we are in right now.

Could be wild.
Or nothing at all.
 
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