Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[YosemiteSam]

The primary reason Texas A&M bolted for the SEC is it's inferiority complex surrounding Big Brother Texas.

I never say trust me, but if this is in fact true. Trust me, they made a TERRIBLE decision. If they think they were red headed step children in the Big12, they will be Somali children in the SEC.

Why would it risk taking a back seat to Texas and possibly Oklahoma?

Money. Big12's new deal has it, ACC new deal doesn't. Next question?

ACC also offers an incredibly stable 14-team battlefield for the Noles.

It does? Then what is all the hell fire flying around about Universities getting ready to leave the ACC? Yeah, that's stable.

Unless the Big 12 adds Louisville and three other teams, it won't be considered a safer situation.

If FSU and Clemson switch to the Big12, I would expect others to follow suit. The ACC will relegated to being a similar football conference similar the Big East when they still had WVU. (ie, some talent, but not a good one)

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't see how it's any different than Texas or OU underachieving most of the 90s.

Or TAMU from about 2002 to current.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Well, you can certainly tell that the FSU President is against this....

http://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1365254

Calling the Big Twelve academically weaker. Ouch.

Well, he's right. Outside of Texas and Baylor (and TCU if you really want to push it), every school in the Big XII has subpar academics as far as major university programs go. Meanwhile the ACC has Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Miami and North Carolina, all of whom would be the best academic institution in the Big XII.

The ACC is an elite academic conference, right up there with the Pac-12 and the Big 10.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Or TAMU from about 2002 to current.

Agreed

 

[DFWJC]

Well, that and about $10 million a year extra.

Meanwhile:

@schadjoe: In memo, FSU Prez Barron writes, "the faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker"

Regarding A&M leaving, I didn't say that, the writer did.

I agree about the academics though. Some underrate that aspect.

 

[DFWJC]

I never say trust me, but if this is in fact true. Trust me, they made a TERRIBLE decision. If they think they were red headed step children in the Big12, they will be Somali children in the SEC.



Money. Big12's new deal has it, ACC new deal doesn't. Next question?



It does? Then what is all the hell fire flying around about Universities getting ready to leave the ACC? Yeah, that's stable.



If FSU and Clemson switch to the Big12, I would expect others to follow suit. The ACC will relegated to being a similar football conference similar the Big East when they still had WVU. (ie, some talent, but not a good one)

Hey, those were not my quotes.

Just passing along some Athalon stuff.

I do disagree about the ACC being unstable though. Nobody has left that conference in 30 years. Instead, teams have been trying to get in.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, he's right. Outside of Texas and Baylor (and TCU if you really want to push it), every school in the Big XII has subpar academics as far as major university programs go. Meanwhile the ACC has Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Miami and North Carolina, all of whom would be the best academic institution in the Big XII.

The ACC is an elite academic conference, right up there with the Pac-12 and the Big 10.

Academics are an issue but really only if you are receiving money for projects based on academics. I mean, if you are FSU, do conference wide academics really make that big of a difference? I don't know if they do. It doesn't sound to me as if the academic standing of the conference is really going to make up for the shortfalls in budget requirements for FSU. At some point, you have to figure out where that money is going to come from.

 

[DFWJC]

The one thing I don't like in all of this is that FSU does not seem to be taking any of the blame for their situation. When Tech and Miami originally agreed to move over to the ACC back in July 2003, it was thought that the league was going to be a power player in College Football. Tech and FSU had played for the National Championship in 1999. The Hurricanes were National Champs in 2001 and runners up in 2002.

If those three teams would have lived up to the expectations people had back when Tech and Miami agreed to move over, then the ACC would have had a much richer deal on the table. The truth is that ACC football has underachieved in the last decade, that includes FSU.

Very true.
I do think FSU is back though.
They will challenge for a title very soon, imo.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Well, he's right. Outside of Texas and Baylor (and TCU if you really want to push it), every school in the Big XII has subpar academics as far as major university programs go. Meanwhile the ACC has Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Miami and North Carolina, all of whom would be the best academic institution in the Big XII.

The ACC is an elite academic conference, right up there with the Pac-12 and the Big 10.

I agree with Duke, Wake Forest, and North Carolina, but I would say Georgia Tech and Miami are comparable to UT terms of academics.

 

[DFWJC]

I agree with Duke, Wake Forest, and North Carolina, but I would say Georgia Tech and Miami are comparable to UT terms of academics.

Duke
Virginia
North Carolina
Texas
Wake
Ga Tech
Miami
Maryland
Syracuse?
Baylor?
Va Tech
BC?
Iowa St
TCU?


something like that...WF and UT could maybe be swapped out.

FWIW, There are 4 state schools that always rank in the top 5 among state schools: Cal, UVa, Michigan, UNC....then UCLA, UT and a couple of others slip into the top 5 every few years as well. So UT has some clout.

This stuff changes very year, but there are some constants. This year, for example, UT would be 7th in the ACC, but 1st in the Big 12. other years they would be much higher.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Well, that and about $10 million a year extra.

Meanwhile:

@schadjoe: In memo, FSU Prez Barron writes, "the faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker"

FSU is academically weaker. UT, Baylor, TCU, and I think Iowa State are higher ranked than FSU. As a matter a fact, I believe they are on par with OU, which says they need to shut the hell up. :laugh2:

 

[YosemiteSam]

Hey, those were not my quotes.

Just passing along some Athalon stuff.

I do disagree about the ACC being unstable though. Nobody has left that conference in 30 years. Instead, teams have been trying to get in.

I know, I thought about the way that looked after I submitted it and couldn't change it anymore. Sorry about that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, I have never known FSU to be more devoted to academics then Football. I would be shocked if that proved to be the case here.

 

[DFWJC]

FSU is academically weaker. UT, Baylor, TCU, and I think Iowa State are higher ranked than FSU. As a matter a fact, I believe they are on par with OU, which says they need to shut the hell up. :laugh2:

True.
Florida State and NC State are at/near the bottom of the ACC, but they would be be much higher elsewhere. I think what you said is about right. They would be ranked between 4th and 6th in the Big 12.

But since they entered the ACC, FSU's (and Miami's) academic ranking have gone up considerably and the difficulty getting in that school has increased just as much. You rarely see a BCS level conference team leave a conference to one that is step down in that area. Look at all the movement and you'll see that it is always either a step up or a lateral move. The alumni want their degree to have value. Football fans and alumni are not always one in the same, for sure. "Fans" want whats best for football above all else, but those holding the degrees may want a balance.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

True.
Florida State and NC State are at/near the bottom of the ACC, but they would be be much higher elsewhere. I think what you said is about right. They would be ranked between 4th and 6th in the Big 12.

But since they entered the ACC, FSU's (and Miami's) academic ranking have gone up considerably and the difficulty getting in that school has increased just as much. You rarely see a BCS level conference team leave a conference to one that is step down in that area. Look at all the movement and you'll see that it is always either a step up or a lateral move. The alumni want their degree to have value. Football fans and alumni are not always one in the same, for sure. "Fans" want whats best for football above all else, but those holding the degrees may want a balance.

Interestingly enough, their performance on the field has conversely gone down.

 

[DFWJC]

Interestingly enough, their performance on the field has conversely gone down.

Both National Titles were when they were in the ACC.
And they had several near misses in the period too.
Of the 14 times they have finished in the top 5, 9 were as ACC members.

Bowden lost his edge and they held on to him too long. That's all it was...or most of it. Florida's run may have hurt some too.

Now that they have Fisher, they will be right back in the top 5-10 teams every year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Both National Titles were when they were in the ACC.
And they had several near misses in the period too.
Of the 14 times they have finished in the top 5, 9 were as ACC members.

Bowden lost his edge and they held on to him too long. That's all it was was.

Now that they have Fisher, they will be right back in the top 5-10 teams every year.

I would say that the huge majority of Miami's success was prior to joining the ACC. They officially joined the ACC in 2004 I believe. Their best season, 2005 probably. 3 losses but they won their Bowl game. 2004, they also had 3 losses but one of them was a drubbing to LSU in their Bowl game 40-3 so I'd say 05 was better. Outside of that, they have been pretty bad.

FSU on the other hand, there best season was 2004 where they had three losses. All the rest are also not very good. Couple of 4 loss seasons but the rest were worse.


FSU's last championship was in 2000. They lost in the NCG in 99 and 01. Miami's last NCS game was in 2002. They lost in 2003. In both those years, they were not part of the ACC. They were part of the Big East.

Neither VaTech nor Miami has been in the Championship hunt since joining the ACC so far as I can tell.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Read somewhere that 10 teams have called Big XII to open dialogue. Seven of them coming from the ACC. One from Big East. One independent.

Don't know if I really believe that but thought I would pass it along.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Read somewhere that 10 teams have called Big XII to open dialogue. Seven of them coming from the ACC. One from Big East. One independent.

Don't know if I really believe that but thought I would pass it along.

I'll tell you BP, I do believe it. If you are one of these schools who are interested in trying to get a shot at the new playoff format, where else are you going to go? SEC and Big 10 are pretty much closed for you (unless you are ND). The Pac 12 could be an option but if you are on the East Coast, the Big 12 Probably looks better to you. The Big East is falling apart, the ACC is an option but if their TV contract is as described, it's not as good an option. CUSA, WAC, Mountain West are all destinations for each other in a consolidation move to form a new league which will also not be as appealing. I don't know what other major conference you can go to where you can get paid, have a full sports offering (mens and womens) and have a shot to compete for a Football Championship.

I would not be surprised at all if what you are reporting here is accurate.

 

[DFWJC]

I would say that the huge majority of Miami's success was prior to joining the ACC. They officially joined the ACC in 2004 I believe. Their best season, 2005 probably. 3 losses but they won their Bowl game. 2004, they also had 3 losses but one of them was a drubbing to LSU in their Bowl game 40-3 so I'd say 05 was better. Outside of that, they have been pretty bad.

FSU on the other hand, there best season was 2004 where they had three losses. All the rest are also not very good. Couple of 4 loss seasons but the rest were worse.


FSU's last championship was in 2000. They lost in the NCG in 99 and 01. Miami's last NCS game was in 2002. They lost in 2003. In both those years, they were not part of the ACC. They were part of the Big East.

Neither VaTech nor Miami has been in the Championship hunt since joining the ACC so far as I can tell.

Hey ABQ.
The discussion is about FSU--who joined the ACC in 1991.
You may want to go back and check some of those facts. Not trying to be a weenie here, but both of FSUs National titles came while they were in the ACC and they have finished in the top 5 NINE times while they were in the ACC. That's a great track record.
Like I said, I think that the demise in the last decade had much to do with the Bowden losing his edge. But overall, they have had enormous success on a national level while they were in the ACC.

Virigina Tech finished the regullar season 3rd in the BCS in 2007. They have their current longest strwak of top 25 finishes going in their school history.