News: ST: Why the Cowboys believe new QB coach Kellen Moore is a future coaching star

[OmerV]

All of them?
I was being sarcastic, but I'm willing to bet a freezer full of bacon there are others. A noodle arm is a noodle arm.

You need to look into this more then. There are only 2-3 current QB coaches that ever even made it to the pros, and only one that had a better career than Moore, and not by a lot. None of them had the college career Moore did. Not even close.

Even so, look at coaching all over the NFL. Where is the evidence that great physical talent is required to be a high quality coach? There are a few NFL coaches running around that were quality pro players, but far and away most were not.

 

[G2]

You need to look into this more then. There are only 2-3 current QB coaches that ever even made it to the pros, and only one that had a better career than Moore, and not by a lot. None of them had the college career Moore did. Not even close.

Even so, look at coaching all over the NFL. Where is the evidence that great physical talent is required to be a high quality coach? There are a few NFL coaches running around that were quality pro players, but far and away most were not.

Jokes. Do you know what sarcasm is?

 

[OmerV]

Jokes. Do you know what sarcasm is?

I get there was sarcasm, but you also were saying you bet there are a lot of QB coaches that had a lot more talent in their playing days. I may not have even responded to your comment if not for the fact there actually have been a lot of comments, serious ones, that have suggested Moore can't coach because he wasn't a high quality NFL player.

 

[SDCowboy]

Hey, all I can do is hope they're right.

 

[G2]

I get there was sarcasm, but you also were saying you bet there are a lot of QB coaches that had a lot more talent in their playing days. I may not have even responded to your comment if not for the fact there actually have been a lot of comments, serious ones, that have suggested Moore can't coach because he wasn't a high quality NFL player.

One, I never said anything about having a lot more talent. I never even said the word talent. I specifically was poking fun at Moore's noodle arm. I'm well aware that being a good coach has very little to do with being a great player. I was simply mocking his noodle arm. And just because I was poking fun doesn't mean my opinion aligns with anyone here who thinks a noodle arm translates into a poor coach, in fact it's silly to assume.
That being said, I have very little faith the the ownership and staff responsible for bringing in coaching.
So while I said nothing about him being a good or bad coach, being a poor player doesn't mean he'll be a good coach either.

 

[OmerV]

One, I never said anything about having a lot more talent. I never even said the word talent. I specifically was poking fun at Moore's noodle arm. I'm well aware that being a good coach has very little to do with being a great player. I was simply mocking his noodle arm. And just because I was poking fun doesn't mean my opinion aligns with anyone here who thinks a noodle arm translates into a poor coach, in fact it's silly to assume.
That being said, I have very little faith the the ownership and staff responsible for bringing in coaching.
So while I said nothing about him being a good or bad coach, being a poor player doesn't mean he'll be a good coach either.

Okay, you said he couldn't throw, rather than he didn't have much talent. Throwing is kind of a key talent for a QB though, right ...?

In any case, I'm going to back off this, because like I said, I probably made a little too much of your comment based on having read a lot of other comments, and I'll concede that wasn't exactly fair.

 

[cern]

Kellen moore had all the smarts necessary to be a good qb. but alas and alack, he lacked the physical attributes to be a good nfl qb. his lack of arm strength is more a factor of his genetics.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

Okay, let's look at the Patriots. They hired McDaniel as QB coach in 2004 at age 28 after only 2 years coaching - as a defensive assistant. His experience at QB was in high school - he was a WR in college, and never played pro ball.

Now lets look at Moore. He not only played QB in high school, but was one of the most successful college QBs of all time, and though he played very little in the pros, he still hung around for 6 years, during which time he was broadly praised for his understanding of the game and his ability to help the starting QB prepare for the game, and during the game.

So, what is it McDaniel had over Moore ..... 2 years as an assistant defensive coach. That's it. On the other hand. Moore is older than McDaniel was, played the position at the highest levels, and lived the QB/coach relationship for 20+ years.

Now, explain how hiring McDaniel as QB coach in 2004 was such a notably better/smarter move than hiring Moore today.

They have Belicheck, we have Garrett!

 

[OmerV]

They have Belicheck, we have Garrett!

I thought the argument was that the Pats hired better people, but now it seems you are you saying the Patriots hiring practices are as bad as anyone else's but Belichick makes up for it.

 

[conner01]

The Cowboys have hired a vet OL, DB, WR coach... so thus far it looks like for every 1 Kellen Moore they are hiring 3 proven vets.

And there is no way to know if Moore can or can’t be a good coach
There are position coaches all over the nfl who were not great players and some that never played in the nfl at all

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Many future great NFL quarterbacks do poorly their first year or two. Aikman, etc. Moore didn't play enough games in the NFL to get past that poor first few games stretch, so you can't really look at his stats and win/loss record and say "see, he wasn't any good as an NFL quarterback so therefore he won't be a good quarterbacks coach". And how often do teams hire some old codger of a head coach and he does great in the NFL? Not often, most of the greats in NFL coaching were relatively young, innovative assistants - Landry a great example. So hiring an "experienced" quarterbacks coach may not be the way to go. Certainly coaches like Landry, Belichick and others had more assistant coaching experience, but then again a head coach has to have a lot broader knowledge of the entire pro game than a quarterbacks coach, who obviously don't coach the defense.

Just saying that it's entirely possible that Moore could be one of those young, innovative guys and will do well in his job. Might do poorly, too, of course, but making a blanked condemnation of Moore is just plain short-sighted...

 

[OmerV]

Many future great NFL quarterbacks do poorly their first year or two. Aikman, etc. Moore didn't play enough games in the NFL to get past that poor first few games stretch, so you can't really look at his stats and win/loss record and say "see, he wasn't any good as an NFL quarterback so therefore he won't be a good quarterbacks coach". And how often do teams hire some old codger of a head coach and he does great in the NFL? Not often, most of the greats in NFL coaching were relatively young, innovative assistants - Landry a great example. So hiring an "experienced" quarterbacks coach may not be the way to go. Certainly coaches like Landry, Belichick and others had more assistant coaching experience, but then again a head coach has to have a lot broader knowledge of the entire pro game than a quarterbacks coach, who obviously don't coach the defense.

Just saying that it's entirely possible that Moore could be one of those young, innovative guys and will do well in his job. Might do poorly, too, of course, but making a blanked condemnation of Moore is just plain short-sighted...

It's irrelevant anyway because if being a top tier NFL QB were a requirement for being a high quality NFL QB coach then there wouldn't be a single high quality NFL QB coach in the game today. Not one. For that matter, what high quality head coaches were high quality NFL players, or even made it to the NFL at all? The fact is, there really isn't a link between success as an NFL player and success as an NFL coach.

 

[KJJ]

Another coach Jerry will be putting through on the job training. By the time Dak is in his 10th year Moore may have the coaching thing figured out.

 

[OmerV]

Another coach Jerry will be putting through on the job training. By the time Dak is in his 10th year Moore may have the coaching thing figured out.

Is this a widespread issue? Obviously Garrett was promoted too quickly, but otherwise has there been an ongoing, consistent issue with hiring inexperienced coaches?

As for Moore in particular, do you not think 20+ years of living the coach/QB relationship has given him some insight? Hell, Josh McDaniel was given the QB coach job in New England with only 2 years experience as a defensive assistant, and he hadn't played QB since he was in high school. Besides, it's not uncommon for QB coaches to be up and comers rather than long time veteran QB coaches. Hell, a lot never even played QB, or if they did it was in high school or college.

 

[fansince68]

If Dak is smart he should already have a PROVEN qb guru and is now somewhere in Florida or southern California improving his craft before coach Moore or Less starts his new job as Jason Garrets understudy.

 

[OmerV]

If Dak is smart he should already have a PROVEN qb guru and is now somewhere in Florida or southern California improving his craft before coach Moore or Less starts his new job as Jason Garrets understudy.

Of course working on mechanics is only a part of the QB coach's job. Helping the QB understand opponents, and read defenses, and examine game film and work with the game plan, and make smart decisions is a big part, and most of that can't be done one on one with a coach in the off season.

I'm not really sure how many proven QB gurus there really are that aren't already working as coaches.

 

[CPanther95]

I won't make comparisons to Garrett until we can see if he has the ability to "fail up the ladder" as rapidly as Jason did.

 

[Bobhaze]

Why would anyone not trust the coaching and football instincts of “Coach” Jerry Jones?

 

[KJJ]

Is this a widespread issue? Obviously Garrett was promoted too quickly, but otherwise has there been an ongoing, consistent issue with hiring inexperienced coaches?

As for Moore in particular, do you not think 20+ years of living the coach/QB relationship has given him some insight? Hell, Josh McDaniel was given the QB coach job in New England with only 2 years experience as a defensive assistant, and he hadn't played QB since he was in high school. Besides, it's not uncommon for QB coaches to be up and comers rather than long time veteran QB coaches. Hell, a lot never even played QB, or if they did it was in high school or college.

Never said this was a widespread issue. I was referring to Garrett who had little coaching experience and now we have Moore who only spent 4 active seasons as a player with only two career starts. Garrett had about the least amount of coaching experience of any head coach in the NFL you’ll ever see. Most coaches spend 10 to 15 years working their way up the ranks before they get a head coaching job.

McDaniels coaching career started at Michigan State in 99. He was a personal assistant/coaching assistant with the Pats in 2001. In 02 and 03 he was a coaching assistant. He had four years of coaching experience before he became a QB coach in 2004. Having Moore who had little NFL playing experience work with a young QB is ridiculous. Shows just how dysfunctional the Cowboys are. He won’t be any better at that job than Garrett has been at his.

 

[OmerV]

Never said this was a widespread issue. I was referring to Garrett who had little coaching experience and now we have Moore who only spent 4 active seasons as a player with only two career starts. Garrett had about the least amount of coaching experience of any head coach in the NFL you’ll ever see. Most coaches spend 10 to 15 years working their way up the ranks before they get a head coaching job.

McDaniels coaching career started at Michigan State in 99. He was a personal assistant/coaching assistant with the Pats in 2001. In 02 and 03 he was a coaching assistant. He had four years of coaching experience before he became a QB coach in 2004. Having Moore who had little NFL playing experience work with a young QB is ridiculous. Shows just how dysfunctional the Cowboys are. He won’t be any better at that job than Garrett has been at his.

I get that Garrett is a bit of a sore spot. I personally wasn't opposed to Garrett being the HC of the future at the time we hired him, but Jerry's idea of when the future would come didn't quite jive with mine. The discussion about his lack of experience is unnecessary - I'm on board. But that was a situation in the past - Moore is now.

If having more than a few career NFL starts is a requirement to be an NFL QB coach, Alex Van Pelt is the only current QB coach in the NFL that I'm aware of that meets the requirements, and even he didn't have much more than a few career starts. Most NFL QB coaches never even got to the NFL, and some never played the position at all. Wade Wilson was the most experienced NFL player among QB coaches.

And yes, I get that McDaniel had a couple of years coaching, but he was a graduate assistant at Michigan State, not a paid staff coach in charge of anything, and in the pros he spent a year basically a gofer at the lowest possible rung on the coaching ladder, and 2 years as a defensive assistant. Let that sink in - he wasn't even a college QB, having been beat out and moved to WR, never played pro ball at any position, and the tiny amount of coaching experience he had was on the defensive side of the ball. The reality is he didn't have remotely the experience working with QB's and QB coaches that Moore has, nor remotely the experience actually playing the game at QB.

That's not to say Moore will be better than McDaniels, or even as good, but it does illustrate that the experience factor isn't necessarily the issue some think.