Taco, HOF game, Waldo’s 3-4 and more

[xwalker]

right, in my proposed 3-4 that can be shifted from a 4-3, in the beginning, you have:
LE: tcrawford (or dlaw)
1tech - NT or big 1tech
3tech: Collins
RDE - Tapper already standing up

during the snap count, you shift to 3-4 by moving Tapper to LB
tapper, as well as jaylon and new OLB would to among the various gaps.
although my favorite gaps are obviously the 2 A-gaps.

i prefer to draft a OLB for pass rush because lee is not good at blitzing
i want 3 possible passrushing LBs so the OL would be overloaded physically and mentally

again i am not saying to go with this look the entire game.
do it during 3-and-long, 2-and-very-long and may be 30-40% of the rest of the plays.
not saying no 4-3 at all.

basically look at this as the death lineup like the GS warriors

In the 3-4, NTs are just used to play the run. They get them off the field anytime they expect a pass.

The spot on the field where DWare lined up as a 3-4 OLB and the spot where the current RDEs line up is literally a few inches different.

In the HOF game when Moore played from a standing position, he was in a very similar spot to 3-4 OLB. He does not need to shift to a 3-4 LB position because he's basically already there.

I'll keep repeating this "3-4 defenses go to a 4-man line when they want max pass rush".

The 3 in 3-4 uses a big run stuffing NT in the middle.

The 3 in Marinelli's occasional 3-man line has a passing rushing DL in the middle (i.e. David Irving).

 

[waldoputty]

Therein is the key. You don't have to agree with someone to respect them.

yes this is the key.
also we need to take a step back sometimes and look at how wonderful life is.
i write in sort of a goofy whimsical way and i try to treat life like that.
even though i had a tough 2 years, i have been awful lucky throughout most of my life.
i get 2nd chances, 3rd chances etc. for all my mistakes and other endeavors.

that is why most aggressive posts bounce off of me.
some have thick skin, some have thin skin, i have sort of bouncy skin
appreciate your message though.

 

[haleyrules]

I'm mad now!



I've just had people get into it with me over things make it personal and attack me get sat down for a bit then get mad at me because I didn't get banned.

Next thing I know I am being accused of being in cahoots and the like and it's Hatefest all over. The only thing I understand is what line not to cross.

I only know that l loath you and anybody with logic and common sense...especially if they are sober...thats very annoying..

 

[haleyrules]

yes this is the key.
also we need to take a step back sometimes and look at how wonderful life is.
i write in sort of a goofy whimsical way and i try to treat life like that.
even though i had a tough 2 years, i have been awful lucky throughout most of my life.
i get 2nd chances, 3rd chances etc. for all my mistakes and other endeavors.

that is why most aggressive posts bounce off of me.
some have thick skin, some have thin skin, i have sort of bouncy skin
appreciate your message though.

Ha! I will respect you in the morning.

 

[waving monkey]

oh, i see what you are asking.
i dont mean to say we will fail this year.
oh no i am a huge fan and i hope we win big.

the way i talk is event-driven - see decision tree diagram below.
if we win, life is great.
if we lose, then what do we do.

so the "assume we fail" is not being negative per se.
but instead treat it like one branch of a decision tree.
if we get the win branch, then we party and no need to cry.
it is the failure/lose branch that i am addressing.

Well Waldo when you have to draw up a chart to illuminate your positive/negative emotions that are peculiar
to you thats not sound game planning. I know your in your humor mode now.

 

[haleyrules]

This thread will be deleted.
6 pages later.... lmao

Lets hope!!

 

[xwalker]

oh, i see what you are asking.
i dont mean to say we will fail this year.
oh no i am a huge fan and i hope we win big.

the way i talk is event-driven - see decision tree diagram below.
if we win, life is great.
if we lose, then what do we do.

so the "assume we fail" is not being negative per se.
but instead treat it like one branch of a decision tree.
if we get the win branch, then we party and no need to cry.
it is the failure/lose branch that i am addressing.

They don't have to wait for failure to use my plan. They can do it now.

My play B is Mayowa at SLB instead of Wilber (occasionally). You get an extra legit pass rusher on the field.

The trade-off is the difference in Mayowa at LB compared to Wilber. I think Mayowa would be as good or better in run defense. In pass coverage how much better is Wilber than Mayowa? I can live with Mayowa giving up some short completions for the trade-off of more pass rush.

Sub Tapper for Mayowa if he's ready.

My plan A is Jaylon in that role. If healthy he's a better pass rusher than Mayowa or Wilber and better in coverage and run defense from the LB position than either.

 

[waldoputty]

In the 3-4, NTs are just used to play the run. They get them off the field anytime they expect a pass.

The spot on the field where DWare lined up as a 3-4 OLB and the spot where the current RDEs line up is literally a few inches different.

In the HOF game when Moore played from a standing position, he was in a very similar spot to 3-4 OLB. He does not need to shift to a 3-4 LB position because he's basically already there.

I'll keep repeating this "3-4 defenses go to a 4-man line when they want max pass rush".

The 3 in 3-4 uses a big run stuffing NT in the middle.

The 3 in Marinelli's occasional 3-man line has a passing rushing DL in the middle (i.e. David Irving).

oh i dont agree with lining up the rde near the LT either.
that is the best lineman and why line one of your best passrushers with him most of the time.

if it is a 3rd and long and 3rd and very long, you can initially line up in the 4-3. then shift the rde to be a LB and put him in the A-gap or B-gap or where you would put the SLB in the atlanta defense.

i may even line up a S off the LOS near the LT to keep him 'occupied'. the DB can run around the LT perhaps for a delayed blitz. the S could also say spy in that area in case there is a run. or even leave the LT uncovered - even if that sounds like inviting a RB to truck through there.

again, i would like to see these passrushers moving around the gaps so the OL does not know who is coming and who to block. it is kind of a amoeba morphing-type formation.

i know 3-4 often go to 4-3 in passing downs.
i just dont see how that wins because the best defense is one that is a unpredictable defense. also the 3-4 i am proposing can transform easily back to a 4-3 and back to a 3-4 during the snap count.

yes the NT is often removed for passing downs, but that requires time for the NT to get off the field - that is often impossible. if u leave the NT in, then a big part of the LOS is secured against a rush.

 

[waldoputty]

They don't have to wait for failure to use my plan. They can do it now.

My play B is Mayowa at SLB instead of Wilber (occasionally). You get an extra legit pass rusher on the field.

The trade-off is the difference in Mayowa at LB compared to Wilber. I think Mayowa would be as good or better in run defense. In pass coverage how much better is Wilber than Mayowa? I can live with Mayowa giving up some short completions for the trade-off of more pass rush.

Sub Tapper for Mayowa if he's ready.

My plan A is Jaylon in that role. If healthy he's a better pass rusher than Mayowa or Wilber and better in coverage and run defense from the LB position than either.

that is a fair statement.

though moving rde off during a snapcount can be done this season also.
as you said, we are already trying to stand up the rde - so moving him to the a-gap, b-gap or where beasley plays is only one more step.

come join the putty's dark side

 

[waldoputty]

Well Waldo when you have to draw up a chart to illuminate your positive/negative emotions that are peculiar
to you thats not sound game planning. I know your in your humor mode now.

yes, unfortunately i took a few decision sciences classes, and they have changed me iin the way i think and feel.
my college gf always said hated that side of me

i look at it as scenarios actually, not really emotions.
though scenarios create the emotions obviously

may be this is a better illustration for the decision tree:

 

[waldoputty]

It would also allow them to draft a 240 pass rusher which is one of your goals.

The 240 pound player plays SLB in base and DE in Nickel. That player wouldn't have to worry about playing the run from the DE position so being "undersized" at DE would not be an issue.

At SLB any 1st or 2nd round player will be better than Wilber.

The above is basically what the Falcons do with Beasley.

right i think it is easier to draft the 240lb guy than the 270lb guy.
i want to draft that guy.

u were suggesting using jaylon for that position, but i do worry jaylon would be overused this year.
they say they will protect him, but as the season goes along, that can easily go out of control.

 

[Trouty]

I'm mad now!



I've just had people get into it with me over things make it personal and attack me get sat down for a bit then get mad at me because I didn't get banned.

Next thing I know I am being accused of being in cahoots and the like and it's Hatefest all over. The only thing I understand is what line not to cross.

Brother, if only you knew what I was going through right now.

Let's just say, I feel your pain, my boi.

 

[Trouty]

When Dinesh gets one over on him he is in reality steaming he just sees concern as weakness. He is the polar opposite of Jared externally but they are more similar than Bert would ever admit. He keeps a blasé front but he cares deeply in reality.

Like what he did to Jian Yang's refrigerator! Almost killed Anton just to prove a point, LMAO!

Touché brother, touché!

Incredibly passive aggressive. To an art. I take back my previous "blazé" post!

 

[Trouty]

Can I interject and call out @Trouty? He likes a lot of my posts, even the bad ones, and I'm sick and tired of it!

As to the topic at hand, I am not sure why anyone really thinks the 3-4 is the answer to any given problem. We played it for years and the only reason people remember it fondly is because we had one of the best pass rushers to ever play the game playing OLB. Outside of that, we were very mediocre and we had a heck of a time finding rushers, hence the switch to the 4-3.

Team staff specifically said we made the change because it was easier to find guys to actually put on the field-3

That being said, it's not like we ever bothered to actually play a real 3-4, because the staff was (and still is) allergic to large NT's.

Hey!

Go push some pixels

 

[xwalker]

oh i dont agree with lining up the rde near the LT either.
that is the best lineman and why line one of your best passrushers with him most of the time.

if it is a 3rd and long and 3rd and very long, you can initially line up in the 4-3. then shift the rde to be a LB and put him in the A-gap or B-gap or where you would put the SLB in the atlanta defense.

i may even line up a S off the LOS near the LT to keep him 'occupied'. the DB can run around the LT perhaps for a delayed blitz. the S could also say spy in that area in case there is a run. or even leave the LT uncovered - even if that sounds like inviting a RB to truck through there.

again, i would like to see these passrushers moving around the gaps so the OL does not know who is coming and who to block. it is kind of a amoeba morphing-type formation.

i know 3-4 often go to 4-3 in passing downs.
i just dont see how that wins because the best defense is one that is a unpredictable defense. also the 3-4 i am proposing can transform easily back to a 4-3 and back to a 3-4 during the snap count.

yes the NT is often removed for passing downs, but that requires time for the NT to get off the field - that is often impossible. if u leave the NT in, then a big part of the LOS is secured against a rush.

Marinelli's 4-3 DL is shifted right relative to a 4-3 like the Giants use.

Marinelli RDE - 1 yard more outside Giants RDE

Marinelli LDE - 1 yard more inside Giants LDE

That means the RDE is already similar to a 3-4 OLB while the LDE is more like a 3-4 DE.

If the RDE stands up, then he is very similar to a 3-4 OLB.

The primary difference is the the position that would be the 3-4 LOLB. In the 3-4 that player is a legit pass rusher. In Marinelli's defense that player is Kyle Wilber.

Note: Wilson started to replace Wilber last season but I'm going to use Wilber for my examples.

 

[waldoputty]

Marinelli's 4-3 DL is shifted right relative to a 4-3 like the Giants use.

Marinelli RDE - 1 yard more outside Giants RDE

Marinelli LDE - 1 yard more inside Giants LDE

That means the RDE is already similar to a 3-4 OLB while the LDE is more like a 3-4 DE.

If the RDE stands up, then he is very similar to a 3-4 OLB.

The primary difference is the the position that would be the 3-4 LOLB. In the 3-4 that player is a legit pass rusher. In Marinelli's defense that player is Kyle Wilber.

Note: Wilson started to replace Wilber last season but I'm going to use Wilber for my examples.

not real clear to me - could you provide a picture or diagram? thanks
here is my main question - is your RDE being blocked by the LT?
if so, that is what i am objecting.
also how does that compare to the seattle LEO?

 

[haleyrules]

Brother, if only you knew what I was going through right now.

Let's just say, I feel your pain, my boi.

I feel your pain. I really do. No phony BS...I am you.

 

[Trouty]

Can I interject and call out @Trouty? He likes a lot of my posts, even the bad ones, and I'm sick and tired of it!

This can easily be remedied. Don't want to bother ya. Just ask some others around here. I can go buh-byes for ya

 

[Trouty]

I feel your pain. I really do. No phony BS...I am you.

Thanks, Jack. Thank you, my man.

 

[haleyrules]

call him by his new name - PMS Trouty (not HMS Trouty)

Ha! HMS...Her Majesty's Ship?? I proudly sailed under that!! Rule Britannia! Britannia rules the waves.