The Brady Case

[LittleBoyBlue]

If Goodell's judgement was respected, why is it in court? From your POV, the case should be dismissed, but it's not.

I've noticed a pattern on DeflateGate topics, you expect "discussions" to be members joining your lynch mob, else you will badger them....that might be a reason your recent "DeflateGate worse than Black Sox" thread (words to that effect) is gone. Just stating the facts.

I font need anyone to agree with me. That would be boring. But when it's clear as day that there is an agenda... It is what it is.

I haven badgered you once. I just think that your defense is laughable. Laughing is good. The pats are a joke because if they didn't do what do.... They would be defending doing anything wrong,

My thread was a question about which was a bigger black eyes ... it was a serious question. Both were bad for their respective sports.


Like arod, and I am not a fan of his, the pats have been pretty good for a long time. Unlike arod though, the cheating gave the pats an advantage that in all likelyhood was in the way of 3 point Super Bowl wins. Arod was going to hit a ton of home runs and apparently he was going to play 20 plus years.


I understand that you will defend your stance until the end. It's cool.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

lmao!Why in bloody hades would any self-respecting media organization SELF-sanction a poll of this nature?

Are you telling me that a $40 billion dollar media corporation like ESPN disregarded any perception of data legitimacy and conducted essentially an ESPNNation poll, instead of hiring an independent research firm? What? Did they think they would be outrageously billed?

omg.

How was the poll conducted?

Were telephone interviews, mailed questionnaires, etc. used?

How was the sampling decided?

Were poll questions open or closed oriented?

And those are just questions off the top of my head. "Over 100 players polled." Who says? ESPN??? For all I know, 10 total Patriot players were contacted by email for this poll.

This is a joke and pathetic. E for Entertainment indeed. This is a significant issue for the National Football League, the New England Patriots, and sports fans. It should not be approached casually like some minor topic for building a SportsCenter graphic. Perhaps ESPN isn't being called on this nonsense because it is commonly known to produce unscientific poll data on a regular daily basis. That is not a good enough excuse however. Unprofessional. ESPN should be ashamed of itself, do the right thing, and COMMISSION a poll by an independent firm.

/rant

I want a poll from all the players on all the Super Bowl teams that were cheated out of a fiat Super Bowl. I want that poll.... Heck for all the teams in the playoffs leading up to said Super Bowls.

 

[DallasEast]

I want a poll from all the players on all the Super Bowl teams that were cheated out of a fiat Super Bowl. I want that poll.... Heck for all the teams in the playoffs leading up to said Super Bowls.

Call ESPN. They can whip one up for you in a jiffy (wink wink).

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

I font need anyone to agree with me. That would be boring. But when it's clear as day that there is an agenda... It is what it is.

I haven badgered you once. I just think that your defense is laughable. Laughing is good. The pats are a joke because if they didn't do what do.... They would be defending doing anything wrong,

My thread was a question about which was a bigger black eyes ... it was a serious question. Both were bad for their respective sports.


Like arod, and I am not a fan of his, the pats have been pretty good for a long time. Unlike arod though, the cheating gave the pats an advantage that in all likelyhood was in the way of 3 point Super Bowl wins. Arod was going to hit a ton of home runs and apparently he was going to play 20 plus years.


I understand that you will defend your stance until the end. It's cool.

Badgered may not have been the best word, but you have been droning on DeflateGate - it really seems to bother you. A team that has never knocked the Cowboys out of the playoffs or is a divisional rival. To suggest deflating footballs is anything like throwing championship games is reaching.

I hate cheating, but if my standard was never pull for any team that does it, I could not watch pro sports - period. Does NE cheat? Yes. Do they cheat that's head-and-shoulders above all other NFL teams? I don't think so and waiting for the kind of proof that was leveled against Lance, Arod, McGuire.

Does it seem strange that with the exception of Eric Mancini, no player or coach from the Patriots has come forth to elaborate on this alleged cheating system? Not just filming and ball inflation, but numerous other things? We are talking about hundreds of people over 15 years - why hasn't one of them exposed that Pats? The odds are overwhelming one or more of them would detail it like Lance's teammates did against him - overwhelming. No code of silence can be this good.

One thing about the Patriots that also seems to irk some is Staubach (among others) has pointed out that team does a lot of things the Landry era Cowboys did: systematic, play by the statistics, superior pre-game preparation, game innovation, great emotional intelligence, scout for talent where nobody was thinking, cull out veterans unless they increase in value... If the day comes I hate the Patriots, I'll have to despise Landry and Staubach.

 

[Nightman]

Badgered may not have been the best word, but you have been droning on DeflateGate - it really seems to bother you. A team that has never knocked the Cowboys out of the playoffs or is a divisional rival. To suggest deflating footballs is anything like throwing championship games is reaching.

I hate cheating, but if my standard was never pull for any team that does it, I could not watch pro sports - period. Does NE cheat? Yes. Do they cheat that's head-and-shoulders above all other NFL teams? I don't think so and waiting for the kind of proof that was leveled against Lance, Arod, McGuire.

Does it seem strange that with the exception of Eric Mancini, no player or coach from the Patriots has come forth to elaborate on this alleged cheating system? Not just filming and ball inflation, but numerous other things? We are talking about hundreds of people over 15 years - why hasn't one of them exposed that Pats? The odds are overwhelming one or more of them would detail it like Lance's teammates did against him - overwhelming. No code of silence can be this good.

One thing about the Patriots that also seems to irk some is Staubach (among others) has pointed out that team does a lot of things the Landry era Cowboys did: systematic, play by the statistics, superior pre-game preparation, game innovation, great emotional intelligence, scout for talent where nobody was thinking, cull out veterans unless they increase in value... If the day comes I hate the Patriots, I'll have to despise Landry and Staubach.

Cheaters never win(except for NE) but no one likes a tattle tale. Any coach would black ball himself if he exposed his teams secrets. No one would trust him again. Jose Canseco wrote a tell all and named names but he was the bad guy even though every guy he named was dirty. Lance Armstrong used to rely on the "I never failed a test" defense as well and his teammates were destroyed if they even mentioned Lance cheating. It was big business.

Brady getting 4 games is not a death sentence. He cheated in the AFCCG and got caught. OScandick got 4 games for popping a Molly on Spring Break during the offseason. WWilson got 5 games for taking HGH, as a Coach.

Brady gets 2 games for the scheme and 2 games for destroying evidence. Seems very fair.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Badgered may not have been the best word, but you have been droning on DeflateGate - it really seems to bother you. A team that has never knocked the Cowboys out of the playoffs or is a divisional rival. To suggest deflating footballs is anything like throwing championship games is reaching.

I hate cheating, but if my standard was never pull for any team that does it, I could not watch pro sports - period. Does NE cheat? Yes. Do they cheat that's head-and-shoulders above all other NFL teams? I don't think so and waiting for the kind of proof that was leveled against Lance, Arod, McGuire.

Does it seem strange that with the exception of Eric Mancini, no player or coach from the Patriots has come forth to elaborate on this alleged cheating system? Not just filming and ball inflation, but numerous other things? We are talking about hundreds of people over 15 years - why hasn't one of them exposed that Pats? The odds are overwhelming one or more of them would detail it like Lance's teammates did against him - overwhelming. No code of silence can be this good.

One thing about the Patriots that also seems to irk some is Staubach (among others) has pointed out that team does a lot of things the Landry era Cowboys did: systematic, play by the statistics, superior pre-game preparation, game innovation, great emotional intelligence, scout for talent where nobody was thinking, cull out veterans unless they increase in value... If the day comes I hate the Patriots, I'll have to despise Landry and Staubach.

Bother me, no.
Think they should pay, yes.

Droning? I think I have been firm and strong on my belief of the facts.

It's simple. If I was on one of the losing teams I would be pissed. Doesn't have anything to do with it just being the pats.

I'll go one step further. Tom Brady is great. No doubt, I know that. I believe that.... But... He has done things that calls into question possible results. That's a "taint".

The pats have had an amazing run for the past 15 years. Again... I know and see that.... But... That is from a 50,000 ft view. When you come in to 10,000 ft view. You see the crud... You see the cheating, lies and deception.

I am sorry... If you want to come off as the next dynasty AFTER the cowboys dynasty of the 90s... You can't have this nonsense going on. Aikman said it and believes that... So do I.

If they didn't do what we know they have done. They would clearly be the dynasty after the cowboys.... But those results of the Super Bowls will always have doubts *


Yeah. The answer is mangini is a rat. Lol

Again, Staubach and the cowboys have nothing to do with this. He is protecting the nfl. That's all.



Moral of the story.

Don't cheat. Don't get caught. Then you don't have doubts about your legacy..... Arod, pats, etc

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

Conspiracy theories on all kinds of things are popular. Some of these NE players/coaches are past football. More than one might have a grudge with Belichick. I can't see how a lid can be put on this.

 

[Doomsay]

Perjury is worth a quarter of the season, at a minimum.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Perjury is worth a quarter of the season, at a minimum.

I don't dare create another thread on this. I like the mods. Don't want to do that to them

But this is a good read.


Mavericks owner Mark Cuban blasts Tom Brady in Cyber Dust post


"Patriots quarterback went out of his way in order to try and make a fool of the head of the NFL.

“Here are my thoughts on Tom Brady and his suspension being upheld...

As far as 4 games being upheld, the NBA owner in me is surprised it wasn’t extended. The old saying ‘the cover up is always worse than the crime’ applies here. Once he destroyed his phone this all went from did he break the rules of the game, to ‘can he get away with deceiving the commissioner.’

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Mavericks...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_627475

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Well, I hope both Roger Goodell and you other people are happy, because Deflategate has caused a rift in Tom Brady's marriage to Gisele. The article is from Hollywood Life, which sounds like a very reputable magazine that would never lie to their readers.

http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/08/12...brady-deflate-gate-strain-marriage-divorcing/

 

[BoysFan4ever]

probably doesn't help that hangs with Ben Affleck who totes his mistress around...

I DOUBT they break up though. They seem very happy.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Now Brady is 'open to a suspension' as long as it is for not complying with the NFL's investigation.

Sounds like Tom thinks his NFL suspension may get extended (I still doubt it) and is now trying to do some damage control.

He reminds me a lot of Ryan Braun at this stage...he's lied so much that he's put himself in a corner. He knows he was caught red handed and the NFL isn't likely to budge and may even go for a lengthier suspension. So the best he can possibly hope for is to admit that he cheated, but it now comes at the price of his fans turning their back on him because he proclaimed his innocence for so long.

I would advise Brady's sycophants that they should calm down because like Braun, they are in for a big letdown and Brady is going to make them look like a fool.






YR

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Now Brady is 'open to a suspension' as long as it is for not complying with the NFL's investigation.

Sounds like Tom thinks his NFL suspension may get extended (I still doubt it) and is now trying to do some damage control.

He reminds me a lot of Ryan Braun at this stage...he's lied so much that he's put himself in a corner. He knows he was caught red handed and the NFL isn't likely to budge and may even go for a lengthier suspension. So the best he can possibly hope for is to admit that he cheated, but it now comes at the price of his fans turning their back on him because he proclaimed his innocence for so long.

I would advise Brady's sycophants that they should calm down because like Braun, they are in for a big letdown and Brady is going to make them look like a fool.






YR

I am a fair man... He can have = "as long as it is for not complying with the NFL's investigation"

But he needs 2-4 games added to suspension. Otherwise, he has dictated the terms of "accepting" the current suspension.

Ludicrous.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I am a fair man... He can have = "as long as it is for not complying with the NFL's investigation"

But he needs 2-4 games added to suspension. Otherwise, he has dictated the terms of "accepting" the current suspension.

Ludicrous.

I don't look at that as fair.

He cheated. He purposely deflated the footballs.

Let's say we have a criminal that is burglarizing the neighborhood for years. He's finally caught with his cohorts as they find evidence of stolen items and has texts with his cohorts planning to steal the items and video evidence showing when they snuck off to steal items.

Then the criminal tries to destroy the evidence from his cell phone.

It doesn't make him less guilty of what he did.

And considering the fumble rates of the Patriots and specifically how Brady's fumble rates per sack dropped off the face of the earth and how important fumbles are to deciding the outcome of a game and the fact that the Patriots have blatantly cheated before...he needs to own up to this entire thing.

Personally, I would have liked to have given him a 1-year suspension (again, I would have nipped this thing in the bud back when SpyGate occurred). But, Goodell has to comply with the CBA so I can understand the 4-game suspension.

I think Goodell would be stupid to budge on this. Maintain your stance of a 4-game suspension because the fans are fed up with this and if it does get reduced thru court order, Goodell can at least say that he did everything to make this a 4-game suspension and the player's union along with the court forced it into a shorter suspension time.

It still doesn't let Goodell off the hook in my eyes. This all started with his covering up of SpyGate and doling out a weak penalty to the Patriots. But at least this time he tried to make it right. Whether it is for appeasing the fans or actually taking an ethical high ground, those are negated because the ends justify the means.





YR

 

[erod]

Badgered may not have been the best word, but you have been droning on DeflateGate - it really seems to bother you. A team that has never knocked the Cowboys out of the playoffs or is a divisional rival. To suggest deflating footballs is anything like throwing championship games is reaching.

I hate cheating, but if my standard was never pull for any team that does it, I could not watch pro sports - period. Does NE cheat? Yes. Do they cheat that's head-and-shoulders above all other NFL teams? I don't think so and waiting for the kind of proof that was leveled against Lance, Arod, McGuire.

Does it seem strange that with the exception of Eric Mancini, no player or coach from the Patriots has come forth to elaborate on this alleged cheating system? Not just filming and ball inflation, but numerous other things? We are talking about hundreds of people over 15 years - why hasn't one of them exposed that Pats? The odds are overwhelming one or more of them would detail it like Lance's teammates did against him - overwhelming. No code of silence can be this good.

One thing about the Patriots that also seems to irk some is Staubach (among others) has pointed out that team does a lot of things the Landry era Cowboys did: systematic, play by the statistics, superior pre-game preparation, game innovation, great emotional intelligence, scout for talent where nobody was thinking, cull out veterans unless they increase in value... If the day comes I hate the Patriots, I'll have to despise Landry and Staubach.

Does it seem strange that virtually no owner, coach, or player has come out in defense of the Patriots?

 

[Deep_South]

Just looking at the big picture, Goodell's investigator's opinion was that it was more likely than not that Brady had some knowledge of the ball boys letting air out of footballs, or something like that. (One would think that would be part of a ball boy's job...) Anyway, to quantify this opinion let's say there could be a 51% probability Brady had this knowledge and a 49% probability that he didn't. With these numbers to work with, Goodell is demanding that Brady confess in order to mitigate the sentence that was handed down a long time ago before he had even heard from Brady and before the NFL had discovered physics. IMO, Goodell's version of justice here is more like the Spanish Inquisition than not, in that getting a confession supersedes everything else, including actual justice. I still think Goodell's persecution of Brady is having far more of a negative impact on the "integrity of the game" than the case he is trying to make, because the Commissioner has shown himself to be a bully who completely lacks any sense of proportion. He is punishing Brady for failing to confess to something he doesn't even know if he did or not.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I don't look at that as fair.

He cheated. He purposely deflated the footballs.

Let's say we have a criminal that is burglarizing the neighborhood for years. He's finally caught with his cohorts as they find evidence of stolen items and has texts with his cohorts planning to steal the items and video evidence showing when they snuck off to steal items.

Then the criminal tries to destroy the evidence from his cell phone.

It doesn't make him less guilty of what he did.

And considering the fumble rates of the Patriots and specifically how Brady's fumble rates per sack dropped off the face of the earth and how important fumbles are to deciding the outcome of a game and the fact that the Patriots have blatantly cheated before...he needs to own up to this entire thing.

Personally, I would have liked to have given him a 1-year suspension (again, I would have nipped this thing in the bud back when SpyGate occurred). But, Goodell has to comply with the CBA so I can understand the 4-game suspension.

I think Goodell would be stupid to budge on this. Maintain your stance of a 4-game suspension because the fans are fed up with this and if it does get reduced thru court order, Goodell can at least say that he did everything to make this a 4-game suspension and the player's union along with the court forced it into a shorter suspension time.

It still doesn't let Goodell off the hook in my eyes. This all started with his covering up of SpyGate and doling out a weak penalty to the Patriots. But at least this time he tried to make it right. Whether it is for appeasing the fans or actually taking an ethical high ground, those are negated because the ends justify the means.





YR

Yeah... I was being a little sarcastic... A little....

Yes. 4 games. End of game. (Although I agree it should have been the one year)



I do like Cubans line though = "The old saying ‘the cover up is always worse than the crime’ applies here."

Just looking at the big picture, Goodell's investigator's opinion was that it was more likely than not that Brady had some knowledge of the ball boys letting air out of footballs, or something like that. (One would think that would be part of a ball boy's job...) Anyway, to quantify this opinion let's say there could be a 51% probability Brady had this knowledge and a 49% probability that he didn't. With these numbers to work with, Goodell is demanding that Brady confess in order to mitigate the sentence that was handed down a long time ago before he had even heard from Brady and before the NFL had discovered physics. IMO, Goodell's version of justice here is more like the Spanish Inquisition than not, in that getting a confession supersedes everything else, including actual justice. I still think Goodell's persecution of Brady is having far more of a negative impact on the "integrity of the game" than the case he is trying to make, because the Commissioner has shown himself to be a bully who completely lacks any sense of proportion. He is punishing Brady for failing to confess to something he doesn't even know if he did or not.

With all due respect... That is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Nightman]

I don't look at that as fair.

He cheated. He purposely deflated the footballs.

Let's say we have a criminal that is burglarizing the neighborhood for years. He's finally caught with his cohorts as they find evidence of stolen items and has texts with his cohorts planning to steal the items and video evidence showing when they snuck off to steal items.

Then the criminal tries to destroy the evidence from his cell phone.

It doesn't make him less guilty of what he did.

And considering the fumble rates of the Patriots and specifically how Brady's fumble rates per sack dropped off the face of the earth and how important fumbles are to deciding the outcome of a game and the fact that the Patriots have blatantly cheated before...he needs to own up to this entire thing.

Personally, I would have liked to have given him a 1-year suspension (again, I would have nipped this thing in the bud back when SpyGate occurred). But, Goodell has to comply with the CBA so I can understand the 4-game suspension.

I think Goodell would be stupid to budge on this. Maintain your stance of a 4-game suspension because the fans are fed up with this and if it does get reduced thru court order, Goodell can at least say that he did everything to make this a 4-game suspension and the player's union along with the court forced it into a shorter suspension time.

It still doesn't let Goodell off the hook in my eyes. This all started with his covering up of SpyGate and doling out a weak penalty to the Patriots. But at least this time he tried to make it right. Whether it is for appeasing the fans or actually taking an ethical high ground, those are negated because the ends justify the means.





YR

The NFL has to think of future cases as well. If they let Brady off with a fine everyone will know they backed down and every single player will threaten to go to Federal Court. Even if Bermann sides wit the NFL Brady is talking about appealing all the way to the Supreme Court.

The main road block to the NFL would be a judge issuing a stay allowing Brady to continue to play until his appeal is settled. This could take years and Brady could retire before he ever had to serve a game. If they agree to a 2 game reduction to settle the matter it may be the best course. Everyone will know Brady is guilty, even if he doesn't have to admit it.

 

[Nightman]

Just looking at the big picture, Goodell's investigator's opinion was that it was more likely than not that Brady had some knowledge of the ball boys letting air out of footballs, or something like that. (One would think that would be part of a ball boy's job...) Anyway, to quantify this opinion let's say there could be a 51% probability Brady had this knowledge and a 49% probability that he didn't. With these numbers to work with, Goodell is demanding that Brady confess in order to mitigate the sentence that was handed down a long time ago before he had even heard from Brady and before the NFL had discovered physics. IMO, Goodell's version of justice here is more like the Spanish Inquisition than not, in that getting a confession supersedes everything else, including actual justice. I still think Goodell's persecution of Brady is having far more of a negative impact on the "integrity of the game" than the case he is trying to make, because the Commissioner has shown himself to be a bully who completely lacks any sense of proportion. He is punishing Brady for failing to confess to something he doesn't even know if he did or not.

It is hard to get hard evidence when you don't have subpoena power. The 2 employees stopped talking and Brady destroyed his phone.

They do have video evidence of the 'deflator' illegally taking the bag of balls into the bathroom unattended and those same balls were all way under inflated. They were the only balls under inflated. And then they found several texts talking about the scheme and the rewards between Brady, McNally and Jawstremski before they lawyered up.

The NFL and the Commissioner are given wide powers to protect the league and everything they have done is by the book according to the CBA. They got into trouble with Rice, Peterson and Hardy because they tried to apply the new policy to old crimes. This is completetly different but the standards are still more likely than not over beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Listening to the talking heads on ESPN, it doesn't sound good for the NFL with the way things went down today. Hopefully that is just their take. Everybody back before the judge in 12 days if no settlement is reached.