The Impossible (but Only) Solution

[superonyx]

And how many are worthless degrees? Going for majors in subjects that do you no good unless you become a teacher in the subject or taking majors in areas that are flooded in the market place. Mike Rowe did an interview and I checked his stats to back it up but there are over 5.5 Million jobs that are good paying jobs that people here are unqualified for such as electricians, plumbers, AC tech and many more jobs that people act as if these jobs are beneath them. I agree with him that people need to wake up to the realities that these jobs are important, pay well and there are many openings for them because there are so few qualified to do them. They do not require 4 years of college but you can make a very good living to support yourself and your family on.





As for condition as a contributing factor of drug abuse? BS. This nations has gone through hard time much harder than we see it currently like during the great depression but those people pulled themselves up through hard work. While they got Government assistance they did not remain on it. You get turned down for a job 100 times you go to the 101 interview and you keep pushing. Acting as if someone else is going to change your life well that is not going to happen. It beings and ends with each one of us that is part of personal responsibility and to act as if people of color can't do this to me is racist because I know they can and many who have.

You obviously don't know much about the suicide rates during the great depression.
Life today can't even be compared to the great depression because American life is so incredibly different now than then.
Look up the New Deal by FDR and look at how far we are from the principles that helped pull us out of the depression.

When a person says environment isn't a contributing factor for drug abuse its hard to even continue the discussion with them.
Look at inner cities and Appalachia / west Virginia and compare that to the drug abuse rates in other parts of the country and then explain why?
Why are Americans using drugs at the highest rate in the world?
The studies and conclusions are out there. Educate yourself beyond Fox News.

 

[jwooten15]

Well actually we have the highest level of drug use in the world.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-leads-the-world-in-illegal-drug-use/

Its a very difficult and complex problem and their isn't one simple answer. Its a combination of reasons and most are legit in their own way. For example in America we are raised to be ultra consumers. From the time we are young we are raised to consume. Check out the documentary "Requiem for an American Dream" for a better historical explanation of how western ways create consumerism...Now the reason I am mentioning this is because a person who uses drugs are turning to what they know to do to fill the emptiness and pain they feel in their hearts. What we know is that "if I take this I will feel better". "If I can buy that new car I will be happy". The answers for these people will never be found in consumption. Its looking for an external stimulus to make them happy because human nature wont just sit around and ignore a pain.......
but anyway I am getting long winded here....

People need treatment once they are hooked obviously...I know its not cheap and easy but its more effective than prison for sure.

The thing we need to do as a nation is to make sure everyone feels a sense of purpose. A sense that they have the 1 thing we all need to keep us moving in the right direction.... HOPE.
We don't do that. Instead we prefer to punish and think that's going to fix a broken person.

Sorry if I am not explaining it properly. I have this on one screen a corporate presentation I am working on at the same time.

And I have two screens at work. One with the CZ page up, the other is where I'm tracking down the whereabouts of all of these "bad guys" we're talking about.

I'll check out that doc. And your assessment of the US being ultra consumers is very accurate. I guess the main area that we are disagreeing is that you say these people have no hope, and that is why they turn to what they know (drugs, crime, etc). It's their escape from reality.

But for me, I see that as a cop-out. I feel that DESPITE their current condition, there is always hope for a better future. And to a certain extent, I look at it as laziness that more of these people don't even try to make better for themselves. It's not a lack of opportunity, it's a lack of motivation. That, or they PERCEIVE that it's impossible to improve their life, so that makes them not try. Who knows.

Gosh, there are so many things that are messed up with the system, that's for sure.

 

[Dracula]

My idea is that we should listen to the feelings of fellow Americans and consider their views, life experiences, and feelings. I believe in the end we are better for this. I believe closing our mind to the pain of others does nothing to make us stronger as a country. We are uncomfortable with others perspectives and many of us would rather shut our eyes and ears instead of showing human empathy and decency. We should stop trying to interpret someone elses intent and for once talk about it..

This boycott and shutting ourselves away from things we are not comfortable with is troubling to me. Our current president (regardless of your political party) is not setting the right example for our children. He should be teaching to communicate with each other in times of differences and conflict. Instead he is handling the NFL situation like he is handling North Korea. Instead of trying to talk like a tough guy how about sitting down and talking about issues and differences. Both situations have the ability to blow up in his face.

How about those in pain showing some empathy for the feelings of those who don't like their method of protest?

 

[superonyx]

How about those in pain showing some empathy for the feelings of those who don't like their method of protest?

Come on man!
Whats more pain...Being inconvenienced by having to watch some guy take a knee during a song or coming from a community stricken with poverty, violence, crime, drug use, early death?
You are kidding though right?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Getting rid of the anthem and flag ceremony or having the teams hiding in the tunnel during the ceremony is unacceptable and the NFL will never agree. The NFL pr department understands that, if you think there is a backlash now, try that one and see what happens. Ask the Steelers what happened after they hid in the tunnel and their lame excuse for doing so. There are few occasions where a totally anonymous crowd, of American or otherwise, citizens can gather and have the opportunity to pay respect to or not to two of the most enduring symbols of America. I think that the owners will follow the Cowboy method, which gives some to both sides, and those that don't, will in the long run, will wish they had.

I have seen incompetence in my lifetime, but the NFL Public Relations Department is about as incompetent as I've ever seen.

I could never imagine any entity being as tone deaf as the NFL PR department. They seem to always play the wrong strategy.

I just wouldn't put it past them to try this and I think that's what they are trying to shift the discussion to.





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Come on man!
Whats more pain...Being inconvenienced by having to watch some guy take a knee during a song or coming from a community stricken with poverty, violence, crime, drug use, early death?
You are kidding though right?

And why again are you protesting the anthem and flag for that?





YR

 

[superonyx]

And why again are you protesting the anthem and flag for that?





YR

No one is protesting the flag or the anthem.
No one is protesting the flag or the anthem.

They are protesting during the anthem. Not protesting the anthem.

It's about inequality my man. When 40% of black children are living in poverty you can see the inequality right?
When blacks have more than double the rate of poverty than whites you can see the inequality.

You can argue the causes for the inequality all day but lets not pretend that inequality doesn't exist.

and again...no one is protesting the anthem.

 

[jday]

This conversation has been epic!

 

[arglebargle]

I agree with you on certain points. Drugs are universally used in all parts of the world, though. The only reason it's an "epidemic" in the US is that there are such strict laws in regard to their use/distribution. So you think that if we were to become more lax on drugs for personal use, that in turn would create a more stable home environment since that parent wouldn't be locked up? Just trying to understand your train of thought here.

And as far as treatment for drug users, those programs are by-and-large just money grabs. You can't help anybody until they want to help themselves. So placing them in rehab, etc will do nothing except boost that facility's already fat pockets. The vast majority of patients would be discharged, and have a needle in their arm within the next 24 hours. Offering help to someone who doesn't want it is pointless.

But we haven't apparently learned the lessons of Prohibition. Turning countless reasonable Americans into criminals overnight, lessening respect for law and government, creating national organized crime. (Now international) It also lead to the creation of a fat cat legal/policing system. One which was repurposed to fight other drugs once alcohol hit the table again.

When you talk about money grabs, you just have to look at the amount of money spent on drug interdiction vs the results. It's a terrible failure. But it sure employs a lot of people, and in a useful way for those who like to manipulate power.

 

[ifixoldhouses]

What do some of you think about this photo? A guy kneeling at the Tomb of Unknown Soldier. That is completely unacceptable and actions like that are going to derail any good that can come of this whole situation.

It's a long hike to get to that tomb, and it looks pretty hot, I don't think there are any rules, other than being quiet. I've been there 3 times.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

No one is protesting the flag or the anthem.
No one is protesting the flag or the anthem.

They are protesting during the anthem. Not protesting the anthem.

Yes they are protesting the anthem. Take you semantics to somebody naive enough to fall for them.

It's about inequality my man. When 40% of black children are living in poverty you can see the inequality right?
When blacks have more than double the rate of poverty than whites you can see the inequality.

I thought it was about institutional racism in law enforcement?

Now that cannot be proven and Hand up, Don't Shoot was proven to be a lie...it's about inequality.

You can argue the causes for the inequality all day but lets not pretend that inequality doesn't exist.

Sure, inequalities exist. Just like you see an inequality of white people in the NBA.

But no institution is out there trying to make black people poor in this country. Just like no institution is trying to not allow white basketball players in the NBA.

And guess what race of people has the highest median income in the country and has the highest rates of medical students?

Asians.

Crazy. I guess whitey could start protesting Asian owned establishments and med schools because of 'Asian privilege.'

It's very much a culture issue than it is a skin color issue. Nothing will drive a cycle of poverty and crime in a family tree like fatherless households. And there are not fatherless households because cops are killing all of the black fathers or their racism is putting them in prison. Children having to raise their younger siblings because their parents are not around will result in future cycles of poverty, violence, crime and unwanted pregnancies.

There's a lot of things we could do to help with this such as more jobs and better jobs that don't require a college degree being available in the inner city, better education of drug and alcohol abuse, better sex education in the schools, a better and more affordable system for adoptions and foster home care, etc. But, we almost never broach the core value in all of this. It's something that leaders in this country are not having their feet held to the fire about what steps will they take to combat these fatherless households besides decrying institutional racism.





YR

 

[JoeKing]

No one is protesting the flag or the anthem.
No one is protesting the flag or the anthem.

They are protesting during the anthem. Not protesting the anthem.

It's about inequality my man. When 40% of black children are living in poverty you can see the inequality right?
When blacks have more than double the rate of poverty than whites you can see the inequality.

You can argue the causes for the inequality all day but lets not pretend that inequality doesn't exist.

and again...no one is protesting the anthem.

When blacks are failing 40% of their children it does not mean they didn't have an equal opportunity to do otherwise. White fathers support their children at a much higher rate so naturally the poverty rate of white children is much less. Blame black fathers that don't support their children for their children's poverty, not a fake inequality narrative. Did Kaepernick's black father support him? NO, he was rejected and adopted by a white family that loved and raise him to include a college education. How does Kaep show his appreciation? A false inequality narrative that is killing pro football.

 

[Dracula]

Come on man!
Whats more pain...Being inconvenienced by having to watch some guy take a knee during a song or coming from a community stricken with poverty, violence, crime, drug use, early death?
You are kidding though right?

You think that it's just a song so you're perspective is right and to hell with anybody else's perspective and you wonder why there's a problem. To some, me included, it's not just a song but a symbol and a ceremony that you just don't mess with. But, it's just a song to you and probably always will.

 

[superonyx]

You think that it's just a song so you're perspective is right and to hell with anybody else's perspective and you wonder why there's a problem. To some, me included, it's not just a song but a symbol and a ceremony that you just don't mess with. But, it's just a song to you and probably always will.

I’m happy for you and I’m glad you take the song so seriously. There is a problem because you think if something is important to you then it has to be as important to everyone else. Sorry but life doesn’t work this way. The awesome part is that you don’t get to tell me what to value and how I should feel about the song...just as I don’t get to tell you...I’m ok with this reality. You obviously are not..sucks for you.

Way to ignore and the diminish the pain others feel and prevent your feelings about the song somehow is more important to you and therefore has to be to everyone.

Sweet

 

[superonyx]

When blacks are failing 40% of their children it does not mean they didn't have an equal opportunity to do otherwise. White fathers support their children at a much higher rate so naturally the poverty rate of white children is much less. Blame black fathers that don't support their children for their children's poverty, not a fake inequality narrative. Did Kaepernick's black father support him? NO, he was rejected and adopted by a white family that loved and raise him to include a college education. How does Kaep show his appreciation? A false inequality narrative that is killing pro football.

I’d reply but what you said is so disgusting and racist that I don’t see the point going back and forth with stupid.

 

[JoeKing]

I’d reply but what you said is so disgusting and racist that I don’t see the point going back and forth with stupid.

The truth is you never want to debate me. It's much easier for you to shut down debate by selling the pretense that I'm a racist. Not true, but way to go to that ole stand-by tactic when in over your head.

 

[Ghost12]

I’m happy for you and I’m glad you take the song so seriously. There is a problem because you think if something is important to you then it has to be as important to everyone else. Sorry but life doesn’t work this way. The awesome part is that you don’t get to tell me what to value and how I should feel about the song...just as I don’t get to tell you...I’m ok with this reality. You obviously are not..sucks for you.

Way to ignore and the diminish the pain others feel and prevent your feelings about the song somehow is more important to you and therefore has to be to everyone.

And how does taking a knee during the national anthem help any of those people you pretend to care so much about?

 

[JoeKing]

And how does taking a knee during the national anthem help any of those people you pretend to care so much about?

It makes their feels better.

 

[superonyx]

The truth is you never want to debate me. It's much easier for you to shut down debate by selling the pretense that I'm a racist. Not true, but way to go to that ole stand-by tactic when in over your head.

Yea because you have shown to be just so intelligent and clever.
You said nothing even worth debating. Read through this thread and see the type of posters I will engage in healthy conversations. Then look at your post.

Pound your chest and convince yourself that somehow a person on the internet is afraid of your intellect.
When someone is so clearly a disgusting racist I won’t waste time proving what they already have proven...that they are an idiot.

 

[sbark]

I don't think bringing these protest to the field will do anything but divide people even more. All players get a day off, use that day off to hold protest rallies in each of the cities. Right now as I mentioned in another thread if this is about social justice and Unity well it is not getting accomplished it is only pissing half the fan bases off. It serves no purpose in accomplishing their goals.

Use the day off to go into s.c.Chicago, I'd bet the NFL would foot the bill..........change the culture there, 8 year olds running around with Glocks begs for "more bad cops"claims in future.........this has evolved to being not about free speech, not about oppression. The NFL has fell for the old left game of its form of jizya. They should not have played the game, they didnt realize the goal posts would move during the game.