The very reason I can't sleep either - LaTunaNostra

[lspain1]

I'm an early riser on the east coast these days. The Cowboys upset me because I love football and want them to do well, but I don't lose sleep over them.

 

[Garland powerplay]

I've seen game quitters in other sports. This is a great post & its what seperates winners from losers.

 

[Kobal]

Umm G-Unit didn't write the bolded part FYI..

oh. I know that. Already read the article.

 

[rcaldw]

Granted, I've never played football.

This is what caught my eye. How refreshing! And I'm being sincere. It seems like almost everyone on this board sometimes (exaggerating to make a point) tries to act as if they are the king of football experience.

*When I played
*When I coached
*When I charted
*According to my analysis

And someone admits they never played. Maybe Nostra just means "pro football", I don't know, but either way, I really think sometimes that almost every comment we make ought to be begin with, "according to my very limited knowledge."

Now, everyone remind me of that when I come out with one of my very strong opinions.

 

[BlueStar22]

I don't think we need Thugs but we need guys with mean streaks, intimidators if you will. I used to hate Jeremiah Trotter, for one he celebrates after every tackle he gets whether our guy gets 2 yards or 7 on him. However, after reading the feature the Sporting News had on him the other day, I do have a new respect for the guy. Seems to be a good guy, family guy off the field but is just nasty on the field. That's what we need! That is exactly what we need!

 

[ZeroClub]

... interesting thread.

As much as people like to laugh about it, moxie is exactly what this team is missing.

mox·ie (mŏk's&#275 n. Slang.

1. The ability to face difficulty with spirit and courage.
2. Courage combined with inventiveness.
3. Fortitude and determination.
4. Aggressive energy; initiative.

synonyms: backbone, grit, guts, gumption


Moxie is a corny and old-fashioned word, but it's what the Cowboys need.

IMO, they don't need a few criminal thug nasty types. A guy like Roger Staubach had moxie without being a thug. Without his mental game, he'd have been an average NFL QB. His mental game brought him, and his team, much success. And that's what today's Cowboys need. Moxie.

If Romo has the physical talent to play well in the NFL, his moxie will be a big plus to this team. If Romo doesn't have the tools to play well, his moxie won't mean all that much. And the Cowboys will have to find another source ....

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Granted, I've never played football.

This is what caught my eye. How refreshing! And I'm being sincere. It seems like almost everyone on this board sometimes (exaggerating to make a point) tries to act as if they are the king of football experience.

*When I played
*When I coached
*When I charted
*According to my analysis

And someone admits they never played. Maybe Nostra just means "pro football", I don't know, but either way, I really think sometimes that almost every comment we make ought to be begin with, "according to my very limited knowledge."

Now, everyone remind me of that when I come out with one of my very strong opinions.

Yeah well, a 5'2", 115 pound female isn't going to convince anyone she's speaking from experience.

But believe me, if I had done anything more than shagg the badly thrown balls of my brothers, I'd be prefacing my posts with 'in my experience" too.

 

[50cent]

I agree with you, the team has a problem with the 'toughness' thing. Those folks that want to bring back Jimmy Johnson want the brand of toughness he got from his players. Parcells wants his team to be tough. He hasn't gotten it yet. I'm hoping Tony Romo helps to bring some of it. We'll see.

I agree with you totally. BP wants that toughness and thats why I thought he would be on board for the TO signing. I'm guilty as charged for wanting the JJ toughness that he had with our teams in the 90s. There was a certain edge that those teams played with. Never backing down from anything. This may sound funny. but many people remember how Irvin used to intimidate people with his play. Although the guy that I thought that brought that toughness aspect was Kenneth Gant. Like it or not his shark dance used to let other teams know, its about to be on and here we come. It was mental but I loved it.

I don't think we need Thugs but we need guys with mean streaks, intimidators if you will. I used to hate Jeremiah Trotter, for one he celebrates after every tackle he gets whether our guy gets 2 yards or 7 on him. However, after reading the feature the Sporting News had on him the other day, I do have a new respect for the guy. Seems to be a good guy, family guy off the field but is just nasty on the field. That's what we need! That is exactly what we need!

Here are some more that come to mind:
1. Lynch
2. Dawkins
3. Brooks
4. Al Wilson
5. Ray Lewis
6. Steve Hutchinson
7. LeCharles Bentley
8. Brandon Jacobs
9. Urlacher
10. Hines Ward
11. TO
12. Peppers
These are guys that just bring it, regardless of the situation. Some maybe so called Thugs and others aren't, but they all bring a different physical and mental part to a game.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

We had two guys like that on Offense last year and let both go...Key and Dan Campbell.

Please don't anyone say Owens brings what Johnson did in that intimidator regard. Owens may be ten times the talent KJ is, but for aggressive blocking, quick and reflexive retaliation (remember the guy who kicked TG when he was down in the 04 Cleveland game and Key's instantaneous response..got us a penalty but it just proved the one-for-all and all-for-one gut reaction of KJ), and sheer willingness to tough every play out, no quit, no short arms, no footstep hearing...we let that guy go.

Owens endless chest thumping is a whole 'nother thing. "Look at me!" doesn't = intimidation. It invites ridicule and tears a team part more than builds it up because it's I over US.

Campbell was another gutty, nasty-minded competitor. And not to say he belongs here either over Witten, Fasano, or even Curtis..but just to point out we had two of those types and it wasn't enough to put us over the top.

We went with more talent at receiving over blocking and all around nastiness...let's see if it was the right decision.

 

[50cent]

We had two guys like that on Offense last year and let both go...Key and Dan Campbell.

Please don't anyone say Owens brings what Johnson did in that intimidator regard. Owens may be ten times the talent KJ is, but for aggressive blocking, quick and reflexive retaliation (remember the guy who kicked TG when he was down in the 04 Cleveland game and Key's instantaneous response..got us a penalty but it just proved the one-for-all and all-for-one gut reaction of KJ), and sheer willingness to tough every play out, no quit, no short arms, no footstep hearing...we let that guy go.

Owens endless chest thumping is a whole 'nother thing. "Look at me!" doesn't = intimidation. It invites ridicule and tears a team part more than builds it up because it's I over US.

Campbell was another gutty, nasty-minded competitor. And not to say he belongs here either over Witten, Fasano, or even Curtis..but just to point out we had two of those types and it wasn't enough to put us over the top.

We went with more talent at receiving over blocking and all around nastiness...let's see if it was the right decision.

More to agree with and some to disagree with. I too felt KJ and DC brought that streak with them and thats why BP at least wanted to keep KJ even after the TO signing. Although, I'm not willing to say TO isn't tough though. For as much as he does in the lokkat me department, he does bring a certain edge to me. I didn't like TO until he started playing for the Eagles. I thought he was a big baby with extreme amount of talent. That was until I saw the Eagles play BAltimore in their first pre-season game. That was a game that Ithought Balt had a target on TO after he spurned the for Philly. Instead, TO put a target on BAlt. He manhandled their DBs in the blocking game, not to mention the deep bomb he caught for a TD. That showed me something. He continued to do the same during their regular season game vs. BAlt and others. He brings it, but like I said last night, I don't think he has been embraced like that here. Especially by BP.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No, you have to go back to my original list. I listed certain players that I thought were nice guys. I used the word soft and some only saw the name ROY on the list. I was speaking of wilting under pressure. I never said mentally soft, but thats what I was talking about as well. But once they saw Roy, they freaked out. Roy is in my opinion a nice guy. I'm really on the verge of labeling him a Game Quitter. I listed my reason for this, but to answer your question, No TO is not a Game Quitter. In fact he is just the opposite.

fine, we suck, we're a bunch of soft, wussy, pansy-arse game-quitters

now go root for the Chargers

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

the fact that we are to soft stems from a read and react scheme

 

[WoodysGirl]

fine, we suck, we're a bunch of soft, wussy, pansy-arse game-quitters

now go root for the Chargers

Summer, u sound silly. You don't agree with the guy's premise, move on. Your posts are borderline trollish, because you're not even debating the merits. Just posting outrageous comparisons that have nothing to do with his original concept.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

More to agree with and some to disagree with. I too felt KJ and DC brought that streak with them and thats why BP at least wanted to keep KJ even after the TO signing. Although, I'm not willing to say TO isn't tough though. For as much as he does in the lokkat me department, he does bring a certain edge to me. I didn't like TO until he started playing for the Eagles. I thought he was a big baby with extreme amount of talent. That was until I saw the Eagles play BAltimore in their first pre-season game. That was a game that Ithought Balt had a target on TO after he spurned the for Philly. Instead, TO put a target on BAlt. He manhandled their DBs in the blocking game, not to mention the deep bomb he caught for a TD. That showed me something. He continued to do the same during their regular season game vs. BAlt and others. He brings it, but like I said last night, I don't think he has been embraced like that here. Especially by BP.

You don't have to sell me on Owens "bringin it"...he 'brings it' in the tunnel, and in his driveway. But his past, constant braying, and tenuous psyche doesn't create a situation that automatically bonds. In fact, the existance of a powder keg in the vicinity will have any normal person walking on eggshells. That hesitance, that unsureness leads to increased trepidation....unnatural holding back, fear of saying or doing something wrong because he might 'go off'.

Anyone who has ever worked with a loose cannon or nutcase knows the effect is never cohesion. Never. You're always looking out of the corner of your eye, and wondering "what's next"?

The blow up with Haley was a prime example..Haley read him out like he reads all his guys out. It should have been over. But Owens goes on his radio show caterwauling "It got out, I can't trust him no more, people always let me down, boo hoo".

That was a pefect example of how the normal tussles between player and coaches get blown way out of proportion when a ego is so sensitive that every perceived slight has to be countered with a "he didn't show me respect". I had a stomach ache, and he yelled at me..boo hoo!"

Owens is way too sensitive to be put in any list with Lewis or Urlacher or Ward. Please! You have to treat him with kid gloves..can't yell and scream at him like you do with all the others (the Haley thing proved that - ostensibly Owens was ticked about the 'leak' but in on his radio show the way he talked about the actual dress-down by Haley was pathetic).

Owens ego and feelings must be put above every other consideration..he has to be 'handled' or he goes off.

THAT is 'toughness"!!??!

That is the fragile kind of psyche you don't even find in prima ballerinas.

Sorry, but Owens has zip mental toughness in my book. Football is a game where large men yell, scream, swear the most extreme profanities at each other, and guess what..laugh it off and forget it. That 'thick-skinnedness' as Bill calls it is what every player has to have.

Owens has none of it. Therefore, he is the antithesis of toughness. Every regular poster on this board has evidenced a healthier sense of self than he has.

PS Bill too has to walk on eggshells around TO. How sick is that? How can he 'embrace' a player who is the polar opposite of the toughness he has taught all his life?

This ain't a game for the mentally ill, no matter how big and fast they are. But Jerry just doesn't get it.

 

[50cent]

Well, I'm not going to turn this into a TO is a this and that thread, But I will agree to disagree on him. You see sideline and off-the-field things. I see something else on the field with him. I will agree that its a shame to have to walk on egg-shells as a coach and teammate, because as a coach I ve been there and done that too. Couldn't wait for that player to graduate, but he did lead our team to a NCAA tourney appearance. Although, Kansas beat the mess outta us, I understand where your coming from. However, I'm more concerned that it never seems to me that we can get one guy to play outta his mind consistently vs. good teams. I just wish I could turn on the TV and know that this players is going to do his thing. I had that with others but not for the last 4-6 seasons.

 

[dboyz]

Interesting thread. I thought last year we could pretty much physically compete with anyone and did, but we had trouble taking control of the game, putting them away.

This year I still think we can physically hang in with everyone, and we're able to manhandle the lesser opponent, i.d. Houston, Tennessee, but against the teams that fight back we seem to fold. Not fold like give up, just not put things together. It seems like either we can't take the momentum back or we can't take advantage of the momentum in the game.

In the Jax game before half, we create a turnover and DB gives it right back. Same thing before the half in the Giants game. DB has been hesitant this year and maybe our team particularly our offense has taken on that characteristic. I'm hopeful (although maybe I'm naive) that the young confident gunslinger will have an effect. If he can make some big throws, it can make everybody settle down and play.

I think Parcells is a lot different than say Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy's teams were confident, young with a lot of swagger. Parcells beats his teams down a little, bit. I'm not saying that Parcells isn't as good (in fact all in all I think he's probably a better coach), but I wonder if this team needs just to start believing in themselves a little bit. Especially the defense with all of the young guys.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Couldn't wait for that player to graduate, but he did lead our team to a NCAA tourney appearance.

Then you understand better than I ever could.

Hey, I feel bad for Terrell Owens. He easily incites my sympathy...when he went on a few weeks back about going home to a lonely house and watching tv by himself on his widescreen, told the story about his gf abandoning him and not getting to see his child..well, I think that's his business, not ours, but it was then I realized he might have 25 million reasons to live, but lacks the most important one...it is a sad byproduct of mental disorders that the first victim is the personal happiness of the afflicted.

But I feel worse for Bill. And the team. A lot worse.

We will have to agree to disagree about Owens' relative importance and potential to the team. I hope he can be a major contributor, and finds a true 'home' here. But what I've seen so far hasn't been promising, because there is no way to balance out the tension he creates from the plays he makes. And everyone has to live in fear of the plays he doesn't make.

My point is simply that he doesn't qualify as tough..off the field at all, and not significantly on. A big body and speed are what he has in abundance..but toughness is mental first, and physical second, an offshoot of the mental.

Tell you what tho..the day Owens is yakking on the sidelines and Bill turns to him and say 'just shut the F up!" the way he does to his real tough guys, and Owens takes it and laughs it off, no pcs, no hissy fits, no 'don't speak to me again til I speak to you", no "he doesn't show me respect", and no grudges, then he makes it as a 'tough' guy in my book.

Or the day Tony tells him to shut up and he subordinates his ego to the good of the team.

That'll qualify as 'tough' as well.

 

[50cent]

Interesting thread. I thought last year we could pretty much physically compete with anyone and did, but we had trouble taking control of the game, putting them away.

This year I still think we can physically hang in with everyone, and we're able to manhandle the lesser opponent, i.d. Houston, Tennessee, but against the teams that fight back we seem to fold. Not fold like give up, just not put things together. It seems like either we can't take the momentum back or we can't take advantage of the momentum in the game.

In the Jax game before half, we create a turnover and DB gives it right back. Same thing before the half in the Giants game. DB has been hesitant this year and maybe our team particularly our offense has taken on that characteristic. I'm hopeful (although maybe I'm naive) that the young confident gunslinger will have an effect. If he can make some big throws, it can make everybody settle down and play.

I think Parcells is a lot different than say Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy's teams were confident, young with a lot of swagger. Parcells beats his teams down a little, bit. I'm not saying that Parcells isn't as good (in fact all in all I think he's probably a better coach), but I wonder if this team needs just to start believing in themselves a little bit. Especially the defense with all of the young guys.

To be quite honest with you, all of my frustration stemmed from last season. It was a trend that bothered me, and hit its head vs. Wash last season in Wash. I do admit I dwell on the play when Washington concussed Witten on our sideline and everyone stood and watched. It was then stamped the last game of the season. I just began to think teams thought they could out MAN us. Man being the term I used last season. That one guy that looked for physical confrontation in a good way. He wanted to enforce his will on an opponent. Like Ray Lewis used to say, He would stare a RB down and if the RB didn't look him in the eye, he knew he had his mind. Thats how I feel. We have some guys when hit, they will duck there head and play things off. Ive seen it last year and now its starting rear its ugly head again. Maybe Romo can provide that edge. He certanily didn't get gun shy after those INts and I liked that. HE got hit and still came back firing. I'm hoping that ths is one guy that has that bravado, moxie, edge, never-die, or whatever mentality it takes for us to start winning tough games more often than not.

 

[50cent]

Then you understand better than I ever could.

Hey, I feel bad for Terrell Owens. He easily incites my sympathy...when he went on a few weeks back about going home to a lonely house and watching tv by himself on his widescreen, told the story about his gf abandoning him and not getting to see his child..well, I think that's his business, not ours, but it was then I realized he might have 25 million reasons to live, but lacks the most important one...it is a sad byproduct of mental disorders that the first victim is the personal happiness of the afflicted.

But I feel worse for Bill. And the team. A lot worse.

We will have to agree to disagree about Owens' relative importance and potential to the team. I hope he can be a major contributor, and finds a true 'home' here. But what I've seen so far hasn't been promising, because there is no way to balance out the tension he creates from the plays he makes. And everyone has to live in fear of the plays he doesn't make.

My point is simply that he doesn't qualify as tough..off the field at all, and not significantly on. A big body and speed are what he has in abundance..but toughness is mental first, and physical second, an offshoot of the mental.

Tell you what tho..the day Owens is yakking on the sidelines and Bill turns to him and say 'just shut the F up!" the way he does to his real tough guys, and Owens takes it and laughs it off, no pcs, no hissy fits, no 'don't speak to me again til I speak to you", no "he doesn't show me respect", and no grudges, then he makes it as a 'tough' guy in my book.

Or the day Tony tells him to shut up and he subordinates his ego to the good of the team.

That'll qualify as 'tough' as well.

I like that and to be honest, I'm going to steal something you just posted as part of my sig. Well put, and point taken. Although you've got me on him being tough, i still think he can provide a spark with ROmo using him correctly.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I like that and to be honest, I'm going to steal something you just posted as part of my sig. Well put, and point taken. Although you've got me on him being tough, i still think he can provide a spark with ROmo using him correctly.

Be my guest, but I have to go on record saying I don't think the team mentality is that of 'game quitters'.

I think Bill said 'some guys' or a 'few guys' (gotta check)..that doesn't make it a team trait.