Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

[Tabascocat]

Even a tether or some other sort of implosion proof location device. A tether with a possible camera link would be ideal. Not only that, you have to have a better back up plan. This CEO knows about high-frequency sonar, so I'm thinking he's just off his rocker, and the Coast Guard is especially irked because they suspect they know where it is. I suspect they have to have a way to know. And if they don't, well, they should.

A two-mile tether would weigh a ton. The currents up and down the water column would have that sub acting like a washing machine and it wouldn’t be able to propel itself around…..no matter how thin the line.

 

[Pass2Run]

Funny, I google this idea and there's already been a fake story about it. Anyway, highly doubtful, but they've been attacking yachts in the Gibraltar Straight. This should be a good training mission for our rescue guys. lol

 

[triplets_93]

A two-mile tether would weigh a ton. The currents up and down the water column would have that sub acting like a washing machine and it wouldn’t be able to propel itself around…..no matter how thin the line.

BINGO !!

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Asking because I don't know. So they didn't realize the MH 370 crashed until 30 days was up?

Also, his lawyer friend was supposed to be on the vessel. But an "emergency situation with a client" made him have to reschedule at the last minute. That sounds fishy to me. The lawyer would know more about the business than anyone. My guess is this guy had money problems of some sort, too..

No, they suspected the plane ultimately crashed because they lost contact with it mid-flight and the plane never landed at an airport. Despite losing formal contact, the plane was still sending out “handshakes” for hours that let them know the plane was still in operation but provided limited information in way of accurately tracking its location. They think they were able to triangulate a general flight path but with a +/- buffer of like 300 miles.

 

[triplets_93]

https://apnews.com/article/titanic-...sea-atlantic-a89dbd2f6d3edd7e4a52566e451a5e6d

“We have to retain hope as part of what we are doing as a human community to find the explorers and bring them to safety,” she said.

A U.S. Navy official said Wednesday that a special naval salvage system that could be used to haul the Titan to the surface had arrived in St. John’s. Officials were in the process of identifying a vessel that it could be attached to, and once one is chartered, it would take about 24 hours to weld the system to the deck.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Coast Guard releases map with areas of ‘completed searches’ for missing Titanic sub
https://www.unilad.com/news/coast-g...eted-searches-for-missing-sub-359313-20230621

The Coast Guard shared the update on Twitter, writing: "A Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City HC-130 Hercules fixed-wing aircraft conducted a search Wednesday afternoon, spanning 879 miles over the search area."​

No black box is going to help them locate a submerged craft over an 879+ mile search area when the depth is 12,000 feet and the range on a block box is 20,000 feet until they get right on top of it.

At best you would get 1-2 miles on the surface and more likely it would be less than 1 mile from the black box to pick up a signal.

Once the area is narrowed down to a spot, then sure, it could help.

Again, you’re misinformed.

The box works by sending out an ultrasonic ping that can be picked up by sea and air vessels using sonar.

To think the black box sends a signal like a narrow vertical beam straight up to the surface that can only be picked up if the search equipment is directly over it is 100% bunk.

The black box simply sends a ping that emanates in all directions and that’s purposefully designed to provide the greatest opportunity to be picked up by sonar.

 

[rags747]

https://apnews.com/article/titanic-...sea-atlantic-a89dbd2f6d3edd7e4a52566e451a5e6d

“We have to retain hope as part of what we are doing as a human community to find the explorers and bring them to safety,” she said.

A U.S. Navy official said Wednesday that a special naval salvage system that could be used to haul the Titan to the surface had arrived in St. John’s. Officials were in the process of identifying a vessel that it could be attached to, and once one is chartered, it would take about 24 hours to weld the system to the deck.

US Navy is only about 24 hours too late it would seem. What took them so long!

 

[Tabascocat]

The black(actually orange) box is absolutely used to help find the crash but underwater only. It is not the actual box itself but a beacon attached to it that activates when it hits water. For land, the black box is useless for recovery, this is where the ELT(emergency locator transmitter) comes into play by sending out a radio signal.

 

[Reality]

The black(actually orange) box is absolutely used to help find the crash but underwater only. It is not the actual box itself but a beacon attached to it that activates when it hits water. For land, the black box is useless for recovery, this is where the ELT(emergency locator transmitter) comes into play by sending out a radio signal.

You really should go back and read my posts. I never said it was not used for tracking. I said it has a really short range so you still have to find the area close to the location of the crash/accident first, then the signal helps you find the black box from there.

If you get within 20,000 feet of the box (we have only been talking about under water here), then it can help you find the craft.

 

[triplets_93]

A Canadian military surveillance aircraft has detected underwater noises during its hunt for "Titan," the missing Titanic tourist submersible, providing a glimmer of hope for the public about the five people on board. Mike Armstrong explains how this discovery is impacting the operation and the vast size of the search area, while Eric Sorensen explains how sonar buoys, a technology first used during the Second World War, could play a critical role in the search.

Plus, it is the deepest successful sub rescue in history. Roger Mallinson was one of two men rescued from a Canadian-made submersible stuck at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in 1973. Redmond Shannon speaks with Mallinson about how he and his colleague Roger Chapman became trapped, how the pair survived and his empathy for the five people on board the "Titan."

 

[Tabascocat]

You really should go back and read my posts. I never said it was not used for tracking. I said it has a really short range so you still have to find the area close to the location of the crash/accident first, then the signal helps you find the black box from there.

If you get within 20,000 feet of the box (we have only been talking about under water here), then it can help you find the craft.

Yea, I get what you’re saying and a general area does have to be known where it went down. You can’t sink a box in the middle of the Pacific and say “go find it boys”.

But, I believe that with recent technology, the signal has a much bigger range now, like 100+ miles. I read that somewhere while researching MH370. Sound waves travel very well beneath the surface but they need to be within range to pick up the signal.

 

[Reality]

Yea, I get what you’re saying and a general area does have to be known where it went down. You can’t sink a box in the middle of the Pacific and say “go find it boys”.

But, I believe that with recent technology, the signal has a much bigger range now, like 100+ miles. I read that somewhere while researching MH370. Sound waves travel very well beneath the surface but they need to be within range to pick up the signal.

Black boxes are not designed for that purpose though. The primary point of a black box signal is to help you find the black box in the water, as you said.

If you get close enough you can track the black box to find the craft, but the range is so short, especially in the ocean, you really need to know the exact area where the craft is for it to help.

I was mistaken in one thing .. the depth it supports is 20,000 feet. The range is actually 1.2 miles.

A black box must be able to withstand many accident scenarios without sustaining damage. Before being put into use, they are tested to see if they can withstand an impact with a concrete wall at 750 kilometers per hour (about 466 miles/hour), a static load of 2.25 tons for at least five minutes, a maximum temperature 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 Fahrenheit) for one hour and water pressure found in depths of up to 6,000 meters (about 19,700 feet).​

​

In order to be easier to find at sea, the devices send out a signal on contact with salt water that can be picked up within a radius of about two kilometers (1.2 miles). At such a short range, the location of the wreck should already be more or less pinpointed in order to find the device.​

​

Source: https://www.dw.com/en/how-does-a-black-box-work/a-17907283​

They really should have had a transmitter on the craft itself and one with a more powerful power source and a surface chase boat should be shadowing their location.

 

[Tabascocat]

Black boxes are not designed for that purpose though. The primary point of a black box signal is to help you find the black box in the water, as you said.

If you get close enough you can track the black box to find the craft, but the range is so short, especially in the ocean, you really need to know the exact area where the craft is for it to help.

I was mistaken in one thing .. the depth it supports is 20,000 feet. The range is actually 1.2 miles.

A black box must be able to withstand many accident scenarios without sustaining damage. Before being put into use, they are tested to see if they can withstand an impact with a concrete wall at 750 kilometers per hour (about 466 miles/hour), a static load of 2.25 tons for at least five minutes, a maximum temperature 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 Fahrenheit) for one hour and water pressure found in depths of up to 6,000 meters (about 19,700 feet).​

​

In order to be easier to find at sea, the devices send out a signal on contact with salt water that can be picked up within a radius of about two kilometers (1.2 miles). At such a short range, the location of the wreck should already be more or less pinpointed in order to find the device.​

​

Source: https://www.dw.com/en/how-does-a-black-box-work/a-17907283​

They really should have had a transmitter on the craft itself and one with a more powerful power source and a surface chase boat should be shadowing their location.

You might be right on that range, I can’t find anything that says otherwise. I could have swore that new tech was used for MH370 that extended the range to over 100 miles but can’t find anything on that either now.

I think they did have a locator beacon on it but it doesn’t work if the sub loses power(stupid). Future endeavors need to work on a better system for sure. The CEO disabling communication up top was the nail in the coffin but he didn’t want to be bothered during his dive.

 

[triplets_93]

 

[Hoofbite]

This has to be one of the dumbest things humans have done in a long time. You can only open the hatch from the outside by removing like 17 bolts so even if they somehow regained the ability to surface they'd be screwed until the bolts are unscrewed, which at this time could be the difference between life and death. The thing is literally controlled by a 3rd party gaming console controller.

I've watched a few videos and the thing looks to have built by a grade schooler. They cut corners, bush-crafted a lot of pieces, and only focused on the main capsule. Their "toilet" is a piss jug you'd see in an emergency room. Not that I have any idea if you could do better, but there has to be a better option than pissing into an odd-shaped Gatorade bottle.

This is undoubtedly one of the worst ways to die. At best, they were crushed when the thing imploded due to pressure. That would be instant and there'd be no suffering. At worst, they're stuck on the bottom in an inescapable tube that is now filled with poop (and likely vomit) and every breath is getting harder and harder. I guess the only positive is they won't even know they are dying when it happens. They'll just fall asleep and that will be that.

 

[Flamma]

With 5 people in such a small sub, the first thing I'd want to know is where is all of the carbon dioxide going? No matter how risky the venture, breathing is very important.

 

[nate dizzle]

This has to be one of the dumbest things humans have done in a long time. You can only open the hatch from the outside by removing like 17 bolts so even if they somehow regained the ability to surface they'd be screwed until the bolts are unscrewed, which at this time could be the difference between life and death. The thing is literally controlled by a 3rd party gaming console controller.

I've watched a few videos and the thing looks to have built by a grade schooler. They cut corners, bush-crafted a lot of pieces, and only focused on the main capsule. Their "toilet" is a piss jug you'd see in an emergency room. Not that I have any idea if you could do better, but there has to be a better option than pissing into an odd-shaped Gatorade bottle.

This is undoubtedly one of the worst ways to die. At best, they were crushed when the thing imploded due to pressure. That would be instant and there'd be no suffering. At worst, they're stuck on the bottom in an inescapable tube that is now filled with poop (and likely vomit) and every breath is getting harder and harder. I guess the only positive is they won't even know they are dying when it happens. They'll just fall asleep and that will be that.

I have to agree. Seems stupid to me. Now look at the cost of the resources being deployed to try and find/save them. I feel bad for the 19 year old kid. Had his whole life ahead of him.

 

[rags747]

With 5 people in such a small sub, the first thing I'd want to know is where is all of the carbon dioxide going? No matter how risky the venture, breathing is very important.

Sub has carbon dioxide scrubbers onboard, power goes out obviously they do not work.

 

[Montanalo]

Sub has carbon dioxide scrubbers onboard, power goes out obviously they do not work.

Typically, they would have battery backup, but who knows what the subs design included.

 

[triplets_93]

https://apnews.com/article/missing-titanic-submersible-updates-6255308420cb542fab287224c3e9b1c1

“You’re talking about totally dark environments,” in which an object several dozen feet away can be missed, he said. “It’s just a needle in a haystack situation unless you’ve got a pretty precise location.”

The area of the North Atlantic where the Titan vanished Sunday is also prone to fog and stormy conditions, making it an extremely challenging environment to conduct a search-and-rescue mission, said Donald Murphy, an oceanographer who served as chief scientist of the Coast Guard’s International Ice Patrol. The passengers are also facing temperatures just above freezing.

The Saudi-owned satellite channel Al Arabiya showed a clock on air counting down to their estimate of when the air could potentially run out.