TO is the MVP of this team

[WV Cowboy]

Relax homer, I was goofing with Zrinn. Sorry I didn't send you a note.

"Goofing with Zrinn" ? Oh, OK, you're funny, ... "send me a note" ! :laugh2: What a riot !

Tough to tell all of that by ....

He wouldn't with out Romo though.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

"Goofing with Zrinn" ? Oh, OK, you're funny, ... "send me a note" ! :laugh2: What a riot !

Tough to tell all of that by ....

I quoted Zrinn. We have a long standing run about owens between me and him or him and I.

The real funny part? That I'm explaining this to you.

OWENS IS GOD! There ya is.

 

[tyke1doe]

Seriously how is a QB who went 1-3 during the month of december (all losses at HOME)....you know the month when a team is supposed to be playing their best heading into the playoffs......anywhere close to an MVP candidate?

I just wanted to underscore team since even from your own fingers you mentioned it.

The TEAM went 1-3.

The DEFENSE is responsible for giving up 42 points, 28 points, 23 points and 39 points, not Romo.

Romo, when he has gotten time (which hasn't been often lately), has been very good and, for all intents and purposes, kept the Cowboys in the Falcons and Lions game. (Yes, his fumbles hurt, but don't discount one fumble being the result of our receivers not getting open and our blocking not being able to keep the pass rush off Romo). And that fumble in the end zone he recovers and then completes to TO was a spectacular play.

When Romo was inserted into the lineup, few Cowboys - and even owner Jerry Jones - expected Dallas to make the playoffs.

Well ... The Cowboys are in the playoffs, thanks to Romo.

Add the fact that Parcells and the offensive coaches also trust Romo enough to adopt a pass-to-set-up-the-run philosophy, and clearly he's the team's MVP.

You Romo homers kill me! :laugh2: :laugh1:

Yes, laughter is good for the soul.

The kid definitely has talent, but he's no where close to being a 'probowl' QB right now....get over the QB rating thing....it's the most overrated stat in football....as long as you have more TD's than INT's you could have 80 sacks and fumbles and still have a high rating. Even Bledsoe had a 90+ QB rating last year, does that make him God?

This is what you call a classical straw man argument.

Who said anything about being a "probowl QB"? Who said anything about passer ratings and comparing Romo to Bledsoe?

I'm talking about leadership and what Romo has brought to this franchise - the ability to play in the post season. I'll take that over stats.

And, yes, his ability to win the games he had to and elevate this team into the playoffs merits him the team's Most Valueable Player.

TO is the MVP.....can also argue that Greg Ellis was pretty valuable to this team as well since we forgot how to play defense since he went down.

TO is a candidate for MVP, but I don't think TO has had the impact on this team that Romo has. Simply put, before Romo, Bledsoe could hardly even get the ball to TO. Since Romo, TO has become more of an intergal part of the offense.

And, to be quite honest, I believe TO's drops have hurt more than Romo's INTs and fumbles.

Most of Romo's interceptions have come because he's pressing to catch up. I can excuse that, especially when the defense doesn't show any inclination to stop anyone. One fumble against Detroit I put squarely on Romo.

Whereas, I can count at least three plays where TO should have caught the ball, which could have changed the nature of the game, but did not.

Nope. Romo is the team MVP.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I just wanted to underscore team since even from your own fingers you mentioned it.

The TEAM went 1-3.

The DEFENSE is responsible for giving up 42 points, 28 points, 23 points and 39 points, not Romo.

Romo's turnovers led to 17 points agains the Lions.

 

[StarAmongStars]

Do you not watch the games? Romo makes so many things happen that the average QB couldn't do, especially Bledsoe. How about the play in his own end zone? Or the Favre style flip to Witten. Or the clutch throw against the Giants to win the game. I'd take Romo over everyone in this league right now aside from Palmer, Manning, and Brady.

:laugh2: :laugh1:

Blind Homerism at it's finest.

Sorry but I would take a slew of QB's over Romo, not just those 3:

Vince Young
Alex Smith
Matt Hasslebach
Marc Bulger
Rex Grossman
Mcnabb or Garcia
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
JP Losman
Chad Pennington
Jay Cutler
Big Ben
Steve McNair
Even....dare I say it....Jason Campbell has more talent and better upside than Romo.

Probably some others I forgot but you get the idea.....Romo isn't in elite class. He needs to win a home game against a 2-13 team first before I give him any kind of props. He has been extremely lucky with some of those 'Favrelike' plays you mentioned to, could have easily been big plays for the other team if not for lady luck.

 

[zrinkill]

I quoted Zrinn. We have a long standing run about owens between me and him or him and I.

The real funny part? That I'm explaining this to you.

OWENS IS GOD! There ya is.

I cause trouble even when I am not part of the argument .....

 

[WV Cowboy]

I would really be interested in the real total number of drops.... mind you... I am all for holding him accountable because he has dropped some big passes BUT... has anyone broken down all of his drops and labeled correctly?

defended passes are not drops....

balls that are not catchable are not drops...

lets be real here...

AGain... I am all for accountability minus the fluffed up drop stats

Thank you very much.

Hold him accountable for actual drops, that's fine, ... but only actual drops, and not like you say, fluffed up drops.

Someone on this thread has it out to "almost 20 now".:laugh2:

 

[tyke1doe]

Because we wouldn't be more than a 4 win team without TO. Romo might have 'stats' but he don't win games, if he did than maybe I would consider him the MVP like I thought Bledsoe was last year.

The Eagles won more than four games without TO. Did it without McNabb.

TO makes things happen.....he's a leader and winner, whether you are a fan of him or not.

A leader?

How exactly is he a leader?

Oh, and what game did TO "win" for us? Just curious?

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Oh, and what game did TO "win" for us? Just curious?

TO won the Falcons game. Just because the TWO TD's were in 1st half doenst mean they didnt win the game.

Just think if Atlanta had come LIKE THEY DID and we didnt have those 2 first half scores.

You dont have to win games after halftime necessarily.

 

[tyke1doe]

Romo's turnovers led to 17 points agains the Lions.

Well, when the line isn't blocking and allowing a guy to blindside Romo from behind, I don't credit that simply to Romo.

And even so, the Lions take possession inside their own 20 yard line. The defense still has to make those stops. That's deep in our own territory.

The other INT and fumble, I credit to Romo - which I've already stated.

Still, that doesn't negate the fact that he has made plays and kept the Cowboys in the game against the Lions.

Regardless, QB throw INTs. That's not anything new. I want to know the particular circumstances, not necessarily the INT stat.

I still say Romo is the team's MVP. That doesn't mean he's perfect or he doesn't make mistakes. But I think this team is farther with him at QB than without him, given our other choices.

 

[Apollo Creed]

:laugh2: :laugh1:

Blind Homerism at it's finest.

Sorry but I would take a slew of QB's over Romo, not just those 3:

Vince Young
Alex Smith
Matt Hasslebach
Marc Bulger
Rex Grossman
Mcnabb or Garcia
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
JP Losman
Chad Pennington
Jay Cutler
Big Ben
Steve McNair
Even....dare I say it....Jason Campbell has more talent and better upside than Romo.

Probably some others I forgot but you get the idea.....Romo isn't in elite class. He needs to win a home game against a 2-13 team first before I give him any kind of props. He has been extremely lucky with some of those 'Favrelike' plays you mentioned to, could have easily been big plays for the other team if not for lady luck.

Okay you're asking for it now...

Vince Young-I see many 8-8 years with lots of highlights.
Alex Smith- # 1 pick, still sucking. Better thank Gore for his record.
Matt Hasslebach-Downside of his career, and no.
Marc Bulger-Give Romo Holt and Bruce out wide and Jackson in the backfield.
Rex Grossman-Are you serious?
Mcnabb or Garcia-Sir chokes-a-lot and a 36 year old veteran known for being gay and losing.
Drew Brees-Possibly
Philip Rivers - Possibly
JP Losman - Ummm, I revoke your football intelligence card.
Chad Pennington - He finally leads his team to the playoffs and hes good?
Jay Cutler - Big arm, makes even worse decisions than Romo and was way overhyped coming out of college.
Big Ben - Ok the most overrated QB in the game, absolutely horrible.
Steve McNair - He can barely stand up, I'll be surprised if he can walk again next year.
Jason Campbell - Quincy Carter Version 2.0

 

[Rampage]

:laugh2: :laugh1:

Blind Homerism at it's finest.

Sorry but I would take a slew of QB's over Romo, not just those 3:

Vince Young
Alex Smith
Matt Hasslebach
Marc Bulger
Rex Grossman
Mcnabb or Garcia
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
JP Losman
Chad Pennington
Jay Cutler
Big Ben
Steve McNair
Even....dare I say it....Jason Campbell has more talent and better upside than Romo.

Probably some others I forgot but you get the idea.....Romo isn't in elite class. He needs to win a home game against a 2-13 team first before I give him any kind of props. He has been extremely lucky with some of those 'Favrelike' plays you mentioned to, could have easily been big plays for the other team if not for lady luck.

REX GROSSMAN!!!!!!!!! you know nothing about pro football

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Still, that doesn't negate the fact that he has made plays and kept the Cowboys in the game against the Lions.

I counter with...
TO makes plays to keep Cowboys in games and gets 1st downs....

Regardless, QB throw INTs. That's not anything new. I want to know the particular circumstances, not necessarily the INT stat.

I counter with...
Drops are part of the game.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Oh, and what game did TO "win" for us? Just curious?

The only individual player I've seen 'win' a game for his team this year was Tiki Barber last Saturday.

 

[tyke1doe]

TO won the Falcons game. Just because the TWO TD's were in 1st half doenst mean they didnt win the game.

So, you're basically saying that because he caught a TD then he won the game for us?

Can I also say, by that criterion, that Romo won the game because he threw 2Tds, that DeMarcus Ware won the game because of his INT/TD and that Marion Barber won the game because of his two TD runs?

If so, then you can hardly signal out TO for winning the game. And if I can't say the others won the game too, why not?

What did TO do that was more significant than the other contributions?

Just think if Atlanta had come LIKE THEY DID and we didnt have those 2 first half scores.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

You dont have to win games after halftime necessarily.

Well, that's a pretty interesting standard you have there. So if TDs win the games for us (assuming we win) then does that mean that drop passes by TO lose the game too? You know, the drops against the Commanders, Giants and Eagles?

 

[Dave_in-NC]

The only individual player I've seen 'win' a game for his team this year was Tiki Barber last Saturday.

As my favorite Food Network chief would say


BAHM

OR Bam ooopppssss

 

[WV Cowboy]

No one player ever has or ever will win a game by themself.

Every QB and RB needs the O-line, every receiver needs the QB and other receivers, the O-line needs good QB play and RB play, on and on.

Even Emmitt in that famous Giants game needed his O-line play.

Oh, and no one player can ever lose a game either.

- - Coaching 101 - -

 

[tyke1doe]

I counter with...
TO makes plays to keep Cowboys in games and gets 1st downs....

My counter:

Who is throwing TO those balls?

And wasn't TO complaining about not being included in the game plan when Bledsoe was at quarterback. And this was BEFORE his finger injury.

I counter with...
Drops are part of the game.

That's true. But here again, what is your point?

I'm not arguing why TO SHOULDN'T be a MVP candidate, but why Romo should be. I've already acknowledged that one could consider TO as an MVP candidate. (Please go back and re-read my posts.)

I just think that Romo is a more worthy candidate based on ...

1. How this team was prior to Romo at quarterback

2. How involved TO has become in the offense with Romo at quarterback

3. How much the offense revolves around Romo

4. The number of times he touches the ball

5. The fact that this team was left for dead prior to Romo's insertion as starting quarterback. So what if teams didn't have enough film on him. He was prepared enough to take advantage of that and, given a close game, he can still get it done and make the necessary throws to put us in a position to win.

That's why I said he should be the MVP of the team. If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not knocking your choice; I'm just defending mine.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Vince Young - if he had gone downhill after we beat his arse would he be on your list.... he had some success by running and benefiting from defenders that had him in their grasp LETTING HIM GO... otherwise games were over...

Alex Smith - this guy is wishy-washy... up and down and Gore did more than he ever did... so..... NO

Matt Hasslebach - he is a QB... still wouldnt want him... he has hit his ceiling... he is on way back to the floor

Marc Bulger - what has he done?

Rex Grossman - He will have a bad game in playoffs... THAT IS GUARANTEED. Dont want him... if he isnt lofting the ball deep he is nothing....

Mcnabb or Garcia - I am not even gonna comment on McNabb... his record chokes for itself... Garcia has had a nice run... it will end soon....

Drew Brees - lots of weapons... he has looked human more than once this year... not sure about him for us...

Philip Rivers - he looks like he can be a pretty good Leaf-clone... he might break soon

JP Losman - another wishy-washy... never will be consistent enough to win anything...

Chad Pennington - chad throws a deep ball and its anyone's ball most of the time... he has been the beneficiary of good luck... that will end...

Jay Cutler - he is a player... I would like Jay.

Big Ben - He is a gamer... not a good QB.. a very good bus driver... maybe a little hemi under the hood... but bus driver nonetheless

Steve McNair - an old time gamer... he has a chance of going out Elway-esque because of defense... dont want him though

Jason Campbell - he looked good other day... dont see much for him consistently though


so what does that leave.... QB's you cant have anyways LOL

 

[jackrussell]

TO opened up the offense and has provided leadership......You take away TO and we are a 5-11 team at best.

TO took Philly to a superbowl in his first year as an Eagle.

As for Ware....he has been anything but an MVP calibur player on defense (See Shawn Merriman.)

Because we wouldn't be more than a 4 win team without TO. Romo might have 'stats' but he don't win games, if he did than maybe I would consider him the MVP like I thought Bledsoe was last year.

TO makes things happen.....he's a leader and winner, whether you are a fan of him or not.

Blind Homerism at it's finest.

Sorry but I would take a slew of QB's over Romo, not just those 3:


Rex Grossman

Even....dare I say it....Jason Campbell has more talent and better upside than Romo.

You know, my daddy always said, what's the use of being stupid if you can't show it now and then.