Vela: Please Don't Trade Our Starting RB

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Those aren't great stats. They're not horrible, but they're nothing special. Some people want to be better than average in the NFL. Shocking, I know.

Hey, I agree thase stats aren't great. They're above average. And combined with Barber the result was excellent. HOWEVER I'm not ready to chunk out Jones and give the full-time job to a guy who hasn't had a full-time running back job since freaking high-school just because Barber had a better ypc average.

I want to see what difference it makes with a new head coach, probably a slightly new philosophy on offense, and a new right guard before I start busting up a combination that seems to be working very well.

 

[Stash]

I've went over this a thousand times before, let's just say I believe the argument is pretty much worthless and leave it at that

Glad I missed those because I feel there's merit there.

But we can just agree to disagree on this one.

 

[bbgun]

Well, this is the year we find out if Bill was the one holding Spears or JJ back. That is if JJ is still a Cowboy after draft day.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Glad I missed those because I feel there's merit there.

But we can just agree to disagree on this one.

I will say ask this though

how come he managed to hold Julius back, but not Barber? or Romo? or Ware? or Newman?

 

[theogt]

Hey, I agree thase stats aren't great. They're above average. And combined with Barber the result was excellent. HOWEVER I'm not ready to chunk out Jones and give the full-time job to a guy who hasn't had a full-time running back job since freaking high-school just because Barber had a better ypc average.

I want to see what difference it makes with a new head coach, probably a slightly new philosophy on offense, and a new right guard before I start busting up a combination that seems to be working very well.

Combined with Barber we had the 15th ranked rushing game in the NFL (based on YPC). That's average. There's certainly room for improvement. I really don't see why Barber couldn't handle the majority of the carries. I understand that he hasn't ever been asked to handle full-time duties in the NFL before, and I believe that's a legitimate concern, but I don't think it's one that should prevent us from giving him that chance.

 

[Stash]

I will say ask this though

how come he managed to hold Julius back, but not Barber? or Romo? or Ware? or Newman?

What did Barber do that was so stellar? 13 short yardage TD's?

Seemed that Romo got worse, not better as the season progressed as well.

How many Pro Bowls did Newman get to under Parcells?

How about the lobotomy Spears got from Big Bill?

For every player he coached well, there's another he simply did a number on.

And I didn't even touch his sterling record with offensive linemen.

 

[Doomsday101]

267 carries, 1084 yards, a 4.1 ypc average.


My God listening to some of you I didn't even waste precious synapse wondering if you have a "clue".

He also had 11 games where he averaged less than 4 yards a carry, having some games where you did a real good job does not change the fact that you had 11 where you didn't do the job. In my view it is about consistency, that is the difference between top player and average players it is the difference between top teams and average team, what you do week in and week out is what counts not 1 real good game here and there. I’m not saying cut Jones and would not think about trading him for anything less than a 2nd rd pick but if football is about playing your best then Barber has shown enough to get a chance to compete for the job. Seems to me many expect Jones just to be handed the job and not earn it, if Barber is that much less of a RB than Jones then JJ should have no problem beating him out for the starters job.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I will say ask this though

how come he managed to hold Julius back, but not Barber? or Romo? or Ware? or Newman?

I don't know about holding back those guys but he certainly did:

Canty
Spears

And even Roy Williams to a great degree by forcing him to play a style of defense that wasn't to his strength.

 

[Stash]

In all of these arguments, can anyone honestly say that the offensive line did a great job for him and Jones messed things up?

For all the Jones bashing, does anyone believe that his line did a great job of run blocking?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Combined with Barber we had the 15th ranked rushing game in the NFL (based on YPC). That's average.

I think having an average, at best, run-blocking line played some part in that, and also losing the TOP posessesion battle in the stretch run because we had to play catch-up through the air, cuz for a good portion of the season, we were a top 5 rushing O

There's certainly room for improvement.

no doubt

I really don't see why Barber couldn't handle the majority of the carries. I understand that he hasn't ever been asked to handle full-time duties in the NFL before, and I believe that's a legitimate concern, but I don't think it's one that should prevent us from giving him that chance.

fair enough

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't know about holding back those guys but he certainly did:

Canty
Spears

And even Roy Williams to a great degree by forcing him to play a style of defense that wasn't to his strength.

but Roy still has to cover, Canty and Spears still have to beat their man, for Canty and Spears, I think it was a strength issue, Roy, coverage is lacking, but playing back in coverage alot didnt' help either

sometimes players don't respond to coaching well, that could be a case for Julius

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What did Barber do that was so stellar? 13 short yardage TD's?

Seemed that Romo got worse, not better as the season progressed as well.

How many Pro Bowls did Newman get to under Parcells?

How about the lobotomy Spears got from Big Bill?

For every player he coached well, there's another he simply did a number on.

And I didn't even touch his sterling record with offensive linemen.

so the player holds no accountability for responding to coaching whatsoever? gotcha

let's just end this here, and agree to disagree

 

[theogt]

I think having an average, at best, run-blocking line played some part in that, and also losing the TOP posessesion battle in the stretch run because we had to play catch-up through the air

Yes, but the question is -- would it have been better than average with Barber getting more carries? Hard to say, but the argument can certainly be made that it would have been. As for the effect of TOP and having or not having the lead, that's the reason I used YPC rather than total yards; it negates those effects.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

He also had 11 games where he averaged less than 4 yards a carry, having some games where you did a real good job does not change the fact that you had 11 where you didn't do the job. In my view it is about consistency, that is the difference between top player and average players it is the difference between top teams and average team, what you do week in and week out is what counts not 1 real good game here and there. I’m not saying cut Jones and would not think about trading him for anything less than a 2nd rd pick but if football is about playing your best then Barber has shown enough to get a chance to compete for the job. Seems to me many expect Jones just to be handed the job and not earn it, if Barber is that much less of a RB than Jones then JJ should have no problem beating him out for the starters job.

Heck I want consistency too but the fact is consistency entails more than just JJ. Barber's numbers weren't great the last few games of the season either.

What we may end up finding that the running back system Parcells put in place as the best system to get the most out of each player. And with an improved offensive line BOTH players could increase their numbers even more.

Heck I have no problem letting the backs compete... but to toss Jones under the bus is ridiculous.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yes, but the question is -- would it have been better than average with Barber getting more carries? Hard to say, but the argument can certainly be made that it would have been. As for the effect of TOP and having or not having the lead, that's the reason I used YPC rather than total yards; it negates those effects.

Barber is better at making his own holes and creating his own yards, that is w/o question

 

[Doomsday101]

What did Barber do that was so stellar? 13 short yardage TD's?

Seemed that Romo got worse, not better as the season progressed as well.

How many Pro Bowls did Newman get to under Parcells?

How about the lobotomy Spears got from Big Bill?

For every player he coached well, there's another he simply did a number on.

And I didn't even touch his sterling record with offensive linemen.

Newman should have made the Pro Bowl there is nothing Parcells could have done about that. As for Spears maybe the new system he will do better in, maybe not but regardless Spears could have and should have played better. As for Romo Bill said many times the kid still has a way to go while everyone was heaping praise, Bill understood Romo was not all the way there and still was a work in progress. A coach is responsible to an extent but it still comes down to the player on the field doing his job, the coach can't do that for him and that is why these players get paid the big money to do the job. This is non-sense to blame the coach for every shortcoming a player has.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

but Roy still has to cover, Canty and Spears still have to beat their man, for Canty and Spears, I think it was a strength issue, Roy, coverage is lacking, but playing back in coverage alot didnt' help either

sometimes players don't respond to coaching well, that could be a case for Julius

Of course.

And in some circles people could say that was "holding him back" and that argument would have a certain amount of merit.

 

[Stash]

Newman should have made the Pro Bowl there is nothing Parcells could have done about that. As for Spears maybe the new system he will do better in, maybe not but regardless Spears could have and should have played better. As for Romo Bill said many times the kid still has a way to go while everyone was heaping praise, Bill understood Romo was not all the way there and still was a work in progress. A coach is responsible to an extent but it still comes down to the player on the field doing his job, the coach can't do that for him and that is why these players get paid the big money to do the job. This is non-sense to blame the coach for every shortcoming a player has.

About as much "nonsense" as it is for the coach to get a free pass while the player gets all of the criticism.

It's a coaches job to maximize his players' talents.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Of course.

And in some circles people could say that was "holding him back" and that argument would have a certain amount of merit.

if holding Julius back means asking him to do things he isn't very good at, or confusing him, then yes, I agree, Parcells held him back

but Parcells has been coaching productive RBs for years, as opposed to one year for Julius looking like the ish, so I'm inclined to believe that Julius himself was more of a problem, than Parcells

 

[Wrangler87]

I don't understand the hate for Julius. I think in many ways he's one of many guys that needs to be given an opportunity under the new regime. I don't know of another guy (outside of TO) who did more for this club last year that gets less respect.

It's really quite simple. He is just a wimpy runner. He runs like a wimp. A poodle. He folds up and runs up the back of his lineman. He is afraid of pain.

Put up all the stats you want, he is the exact opposite of Barber. He' just a wimp.